OhForAGreavsie

If you've read many of my posts you'll know that I don't think managers are above criticism. You might even know that I think Claridge needs to learn the meaning of the word misnomer so he can stop misusing it every other sentence and that, like Savage, he is a know-nothing who is unbelievably lucky to keep getting work. Just today, I have repeatedly said that people can disagree with managerial decisions. I just ask people not to make silly statements. Why do you imagine that you can see the things Brana is doing poorly but that Jose can't? That's beyond ridiculous. Just because Jose does not take that informatin and make the decision you want him to, does not mean that he does no have the info. It just means he does not agree with you about what to do with it. It means that in Jose's opinion, and in Guus's and the temps for that matter, that the other options are even worse. I've no idea why Jose kept picking Brana, I just have enough respect for other people to know that he must have had his reasons. The two worst managerial decisions in Chelsea history were both made by Carlo, First in turning down Aguero when Roman offered him the Argentine, and then in demanding Torres. I have often expressed the opinion that Carlo is extraordiarrily overrated as a manager and that he was simply lucky to do the double. That does not mean however that I think he's an idiot. He had all of the nformation I had, plus some I did not have, and made his choices. If he watches Brana play, he sees exactly what I see. I can criticise him for what he does after that but I'm not going to pretend to myself that I'm somehow cleverer than he is.

It does mean that yes. It does not mean that you have to like it but someone has to choose. It was the manager's job to make that decision and he made it. If I had the job I may have made different choices but somebody somewhere, maybe you, would now be complaining about me. That's what happens when you make choices. that's just the way it is. Never in a zillion years would i have signed Torres but Carlo wanted him. I was right and knew (in my own mind that is) that I was, but which of us had earned the right not only to make that decision but to be paid for making it?

Far better to buy a cab and drive him to Leicester. This bloke does not look at top class talent to me, at all. He has a great agent though. First he was going to Barca, then he was coming here, then he was snubbing us to join Juve, and now? As I said a while ago in this thread, I'll be shocked if any top club wants this lad. I'll even be fairly surprised if Leicester take him.

I think this is pretty straightforward TC but you need context: If a manager picks a player you can only assume that it means he thinks that player is the best option he has, not that he thinks the bloke is a world beater. It might mean just that but you can't infer it from the selection. If a manager says one of his players is a world beater, it might mean just that but you can't assume it. You have to apply your own filter and decide for yourself. When Jose said, in 2004, that Frank Lampard was the best player in the world maybe he meant it but, even before he gave the quote I mentioned above, I never thought so. Did you? For what it's worth I think Jose does believe that Brana has been one of Chelsea's best signings but can I asume from this that he didn't notice how poorly Brana was playing at the start of last season? How arrogant would I have to be to think that something which was blatently obvious to me, escaped the attenion of any football professional? The answer is that I'd have to be exceptionally arrogant and exceptionally stupid to boot. As i said earlier in this strand of the conversation, all it is logical for us to assume from the consistent selection of Brana ahead of all alternatives is that the coaches, plural, who made that decision thought he was the best option available to them. If you prefer you might phrase it differently and say they believed Brana was the least bad option, but that just means the same thing.

Assuming you mean that to spell out, in English, the correct way to say Dave's name then I'm afraid you have it wrong. Maybe not so easy then. In any case, it was just funny not serious. The Dave song includes a pronunciation of Daves surname after all, albeit the same incorrect version you've given.

Has nothing to do with it. You are not so naieve as to take a manager's public comments about his players at face value are you? Just in case you are, let me help you: "My players are always the best in the world even when they are not the best in the world.", Jose Mourinho, 2004.

How do you get stubbornness out of this? Jose did not think KDB should be slected so he didn't select him. TSO may have been right in that decision, he may have been wrong, but are you suggesting that it is stubbornnes for a manager to pick the players he thinks are right for the team? Am I to assume that if you were the manager you wouldn't pick the players you believed were best for your side, but would pick the other ones instead so no one could think you were being stubborn? Tell us you think Jose was wrong by all means but don't expect an easy ride if you just want to throw baseless accqusations at our former manager.

Are you serious? Are you claiming to know of Chelsea fans who care more about how Jose and United fare than they do about Antonio and Chelsea? I don't know any, not a single one and I'll be stunned if you do either. In fact if anyone self-identifies as one of us but then says she/he subscribes to the ManU before Chelsea silliness, I'd say that's all the evidence you could need that they are either deluding themselves or just plain lying. Me? I want Jose to do well but since I always want Chelsea to win everything, there's a limit to how well that amounts to.

Lots of people who are just as much Chelsea as you agree that they want United to fail. I therefore can't deny that yours is a widespread point of view but I don't think the Jose hatred is shared by a significant percentage of us. The anti-Jose minority is hugely over represented in this forum's membership. Personally, I'd be happy if Jose wins the Europa League and finishes second in everything else.

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This is why I mentioned the Eva incident. There was, I think, discernible dissatisfaction within the squad about the tactical change Jose made after the Tottenham game in January 2015. A dissatisfaction which had already manifested itself in pre-season but which was given focus, and rallying point, by Jose's behaviour during and after the opening game of the season. You are absolutely correct that it is the manager's responsibility to maintain squad morale. Jose clearly lost the group and paid, as managers must always pay, with his job. This does not however absolve The squad of its share of the blame. The title win is clear evidence that our squad is better than 17th. Had it not "betrayed our work", as Jose put it, 17th would have been out of the question. Do you believe however that any other manager could have taken that group of players to an eight point title triumph? I don't but they clearly did. I hope they realise now that they were wrong and lest anyone imagine that the title was a fluke please remember that an even weaker group of players were still title favourites three weeks from the end of the previous season. Had they managed to win all of their games from that point on, the 2014/15 victory would have been a successful title defence, not a first crown in five years. When The Beatles thought they had outgrown George Martin and produced an album without him, the outcome, Let It Be, was, I think, a good bit of work. The Beatles are The Beatles after all but when they asked Martin to return for their next LP, and agreed to allow him the control he requested, the level of control he had had previously, they created the Abbey Road masterpiece. Our lot got carried away. They thought they were the Beatles in full creative flow and demanded to be let off the leash. You only have to read the urgent pleas on this site for many of them to be discarded and replaced to realise that they are not however . In any case even the Beatles were better when they accepted guidance.

I do not, repeat not, object to your opinion on Brana. In fact as long as 3 1/2 years ago, around the time of the Swansea semi-final, I was calling for him not to be selected any more. I'm glad we're on the same page about what the coaches can and can't see. it's just a statement of the obvious that they can see what we can. Where I think you and I differ is in your comment that the coaches think Brana is a top-class full-back. With respect, you don't know any such thing. You know that they select him, but all you are entitled to assume from that is that they think he is the best option they have. One after another very skilled, trained and experienced football people have made the same choice. I'm as convinced as you are that if they thought they had a better alternative they'd take it but none of them has. That suggests to me that no matter how bad we think Brana is, the coaches think everybody else is worse. Despite the fact that so many people wanted to see Dave moved to the right and Baba brought in on the left, successive managers have rejected that plan. This should tell us something and I suggest Baba's departure on loan merely confirms it. Where I think there is room for criticism is in the fact that the problem has gone unsolved for so long. Presumably someone thought the signing of baba would be the solution. Let's hope it won't go on much longer.

Thanks Iggy. My coments about the things I see being posted were not referencing you, but rather were examples of why I might be coming across a bit hostile. I agree with you about JT and said so at the time of the controversy. Indeed I was furious with him for the stunt he pulled in that post game interview. I made the point that loyaty goes both ways, that the club had stood by him through bad times and that although he stayed when City were sniffing around, he had been handsomely rewarded with a big new contract. I felt he owed the club better behaviour than he showed then. My objection to what you said is the suggestion that we, here & in the stadium, can see things that the coaches can't. The notion is just ridiculous. They see it and they choose the best solutions available to them. If they don't choose the same solution I might, or you might, that is in part different opinion and in part because they have more information than we do. We need better defenders but the coaches don't have the luxury to just moan about it or to just wish new world class players into the squad with no thought to the cost and other practicalities of their recruitment, Instead they have to put a side out. When they do, they have reasons for the choices they make and it is, I think, no coincidence that they all seem to choose the same ones.

To you my view seems nonsense. To me yours seems nonsense. I don't see how you and I are going to square that circle.

Jose would have found a way to shield that back four. Just as he did the year before when winning the league by such a comfortable margin. He wanted defensive recruits but didn't get them. Even so, had he not been abandoned by the squad, he'd have produced another competitive season. Jose left in part because of his stupid behaviour over the Eva incident but mainly because our squad believed their own hype. They felt they were too good to play the Jose way even though that 'way' was designed specifically to hide their shortcomings. Oh well, they behaved as they did. The upshot of which is that the whole world now knows how useless some of them are. Edit: Just noticed that I must have quoted the wrong post, since my comment has nothing to do with Skipper's.

You could not be more right. Especially your second paragraph.

Am I suffering a sense of humour failure here? I guess I must be since you can't possibly be serious about this. Maybe I'm just becoming increasingly wound up by the pile of nonsense I'm reading in post after post on this forum recently. I see people criticising the board for not replacing John Terry, when three months ago they were holding up home-made posters demanding his contract be renewed and filling this place up with essays about why JT was still a vital cog for our team. I see people saying, correctly, that we will find it almost impossible to win with this squad, while simultaneously pouring hatred on Jose because he did. Most laughably of all, I see people who believe the transfer market is a simple matter of snapping your fingers and buying all the players you want. Forgive me therefore if this buildup of bewilderment and amusement has caused me to take your post too literally. I'm sure that I will eventually be able to figure out what you really meant.

The maximum number of competitive games Chelsea can play this season is 54. Plus Belgian National games for Edenof course. Whether Eden would actually be selected for all Capital One and FA Cup games is another matter.

If Arsenal win the league this coming season it will be their first title in 13 years. (2004)

It's easy. Improve the midfiled. Don't pass yourselves into trouble, don't pass to the oponents and don't unerhit backpasses. That improves our defence immediately. Anyone blaming our defenders for the defensive woes we're seeing today is way off beam.

There are days when Eden just looks too good.

Defence yes, defenders no.. All of Bremen's threats are coming from the same old sloppy midfield play.

We should be so lucky! Show me a team that doesn't defend,and defend deep when required, and I'll show you a team.where the players pay subs and there's no running water in the changing room.

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Well I don't suppose that we have to guess or presume. We could do other things but if you're like me I imagine you enjoy doing it. Everything remotely sensible said in this or any other form is something that will almost certainly have been thought of by everyone in the game. Of course we can discuss them. We, that's me you and everyone else here, just have to avoid giving the impression that we think we are cleverer than the people who actually do the job