Tiemoue Bakayoko

[dkim2 73]

As much as I love Kante, he cannot handle physical beast like Wanyama who has supreme power and speed. In fact Matic did okay but Kante was totally outmuscled that is the reason why our midfield has been overran during entire game. Remember the days when Matic showdown vs beast Yaya, we need more powerful midfielder for games like this.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

9 minutes ago, dkim2 said:

Lamela Kane Son
Dier Ali Ericksen
Davies Vertonghen Alderweireld Walker

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1137622/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2016-2017-Tottenham-Monaco

 

Fact check. Is this their "reserve" team?

Oh please give me a break. Bakayoko was not the decisive factor I was clearly talking about the match in Monaco. Monaco don't play anything like us and don't play our system. Again, if you think Bakayoko is the one that will come in and dictate play from midfield, then I don't know what to say. I think you're one of those that like to be heard for the sake of it.

[dkim2 73]

1 minute ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Oh please give me a break. Bakayoko was not the decisive factor I was clearly talking about the match in Monaco. Monaco don't play anything like us and don't play our system. Again, if you think Bakayoko is the one that will come in and dictate play from midfield, then I don't know what to say. I think you're one of those that like to be heard for the sake of it.

I watched those matches and in both legs Wanyama & Dembele were outplayed by Monaco midfield, unlike our game today when our midfield were dominated by Spurs. Have you seen Conte's interview that Wanyama is the type of player he adores? 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

4 minutes ago, dkim2 said:

I watched those matches and in both legs Wanyama & Dembele were outplayed by Monaco midfield, unlike our game today when our midfield were dominated by Spurs. Have you seen Conte's interview that Wanyama is the type of player he adores? 

Okay, let me state it this way. If you're going to play with Kante in a midfield two and one of the goals is to implement a certain philosophy, i.e build up play, mostly from passing out from defence, you need to pair him with a deep-lying playmaker or at least someone with that skillset. I don't consider Bakayoko a player with that skill-set.  My first post had a clear context from my other posts in the match forum which you were probably unaware of.

[dkim2 73]

15 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Oh please give me a break. Bakayoko was not the decisive factor I was clearly talking about the match in Monaco. Monaco don't play anything like us and don't play our system. Again, if you think Bakayoko is the one that will come in and dictate play from midfield, then I don't know what to say. I think you're one of those that like to be heard for the sake of it.

And you are seriously misunderstanding type of football Conte wants. He always wanted steel from his midfield. Reason why he used Sturaro for his Italy team, reason why we go for strong players such as Bakayoko, Kessie, Vidal and Nainggolan. None of those players are "playmakers." In Conte's system, midfielder's job is not to dictate tempo of the game. Their main job is to stay back, need to intercept quickly, recover the possession, quickly send passes to side flanks and overlap when needed ,to either shoot from distance or to draw defenders to create space for 5 forwards upfront (2 WBs, LW RW FW) Need to have strong defensive skills to close down to intercept or to delay counterattack, earning time for our wbs to drop down and to reconstruct defensive lines. Ability to shoot from distance is a big bonus. He wants a powerful B2B type to pair with Kante, has supreme energy to sprint for 90 minutes, strong on pressure, not shabby on defensive ends, and can shoot from distance. 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

7 minutes ago, dkim2 said:

And you are seriously misunderstanding type of football Conte wants. He always wanted steel from his midfield. Reason why he used Sturaro for his Italy team, reason why we go for strong players such as Bakayoko, Kessie, Vidal and Nainggolan. None of those players are "playmakers." In Conte's system, midfielder's job is not to dictate tempo of the game. Their main job is to stay back, need to intercept quickly, recover the possession, quickly send passes to side flanks and overlap when needed ,to either shoot from distance or to draw defenders to create space for 5 forwards upfront (2 WBs, LW RW FW) Need to have strong defensive skills to close down to intercept or to delay counterattack, earning time for our wbs to drop down and to reconstruct defensive lines. Ability to shoot from distance is a big bonus. He wants a powerful B2B type to pair with Kante, has supreme energy to sprint for 90 minutes, strong on pressure, not shabby on defensive ends, and can shoot from distance. 

Oh believe me, I definitely understand the type of football Conte wants. I've done a lot of reading about his system and watched a lot of his Juventus team and us obviously. That's not the point. Conte also wants to pass out from the back. In Juventus, he had a deep lying playmaker in Pirlo that was crucial in this aspect. In Chelsea, Fabregas can help us to a certain extent, but we need a central midfielder that can combine both technical and physical aspects. I'm not convinced Bakayoko can do that. Or Nianggolan for that matter. I'll love Vidal, but he's older now and I'm not sure he wants to leave his comfort zone in Bavaria. 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

I won't mind someone like Mahmoud Dahoud at Borussia by the way. I'm not sure if he's ready to make the next big step but he's the mold of midfielder we need next to Kante.

[dkim2 73]

1 minute ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Oh believe me, I definitely understand the type of football Conte wants. I've done a lot of reading about his system and watched a lot of his Juventus team and us obviously. That's not the point. Conte also wants to pass out from the back. In Juventus, he had a deep lying playmaker in Pirlo that was crucial in this aspect. In Chelsea, Fabregas can help us to a certain extent, but we need a central midfielder that can combine both technical and physical aspects. I'm not convinced Bakayoko can do that. Or Nianggolan for that matter. I'll love Vidal, but he's older now and I'm not sure he wants to leave his comfort zone in Bavaria. 

Conte's philosophy on buildup process is plain simple. Pass the ball to side flanks. Wingers will bring it to attacking third. There then WBs will overlap, make it 5 players surrounding penalty boxes, to interact and make chances. Who is there to depend? 2 midfielders. Pirlo is once in a decade type of player and Conte used him perfectly but we don't have Pirlo and Cesc usually fades away in physical, intense game like this. Pirlo is a great #6 who knows how to do pocket play to protect the defense but Cesc was always CAM and he does not have tactical awareness to play as #6 like Pirlo does. One reason why I believe he will get sold once we get more midfield bodies.  Conte left Juventus because he wanted world class wingers and Juve didn't have financial muscles to meet his demands. He earned his coaching license with 4-2-4 and his philosophy has been always the same. Conte himself was powerful energizer type midfielder and it is the reason why he cares less about midfielder being technical and doing most of buildup play. Bakayoko? He is very very strong player who can cope with strong press and can get out of it at ease. He can bomb forward with his dribbles. He is defensively very strong. There are not many players who can do that. (especially who can handle high press and bring the ball to attacking third via middle. Yaya in his prime comes to mind) His passing is not that great but Conte cares less about pass from his midfield that's why he always targets players with not-so-great passing skills but is a steel from midfield. 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

32 minutes ago, dkim2 said:

Conte's philosophy on buildup process is plain simple. Pass the ball to side flanks. Wingers will bring it to attacking third. There then WBs will overlap, make it 5 players surrounding penalty boxes, to interact and make chances. Who is there to depend? 2 midfielders. Pirlo is once in a decade type of player and Conte used him perfectly but we don't have Pirlo and Cesc usually fades away in physical, intense game like this. Pirlo is a great #6 who knows how to do pocket play to protect the defense but Cesc was always CAM and he does not have tactical awareness to play as #6 like Pirlo does. One reason why I believe he will get sold once we get more midfield bodies.  Conte left Juventus because he wanted world class wingers and Juve didn't have financial muscles to meet his demands. He earned his coaching license with 4-2-4 and his philosophy has been always the same. Conte himself was powerful energizer type midfielder and it is the reason why he cares less about midfielder being technical and doing most of buildup play. Bakayoko? He is very very strong player who can cope with strong press and can get out of it at ease. He can bomb forward with his dribbles. He is defensively very strong. There are not many players who can do that. (especially who can handle high press and bring the ball to attacking third via middle. Yaya in his prime comes to mind) His passing is not that great but Conte cares less about pass from his midfield that's why he always targets players with not-so-great passing skills but is a steel from midfield. 

I disagree with your views on Conte's philosophy in the build up. It's not passing the ball to the flanks. There are many detailed analyses on his approach to the build up phase.

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2016/07/22/antonio-conte-exploring-italys-tactics-at-euro-2016/

As for Bakayoko. You said it yourself, his passing is not that great. For me this is a big problem if he's going to be played next to Kante in a midfield two. One solution might be to play him with Fabregas and Kante in a 3-5-2, but this takes away from the overload advantage we've had in th half-space with Pedro and Hazard. It also puts too much pressure on our wing-backs to generate attacks. For me, Bakayoko is not the answer to our central midfield problem. I'll rather sign Dahoud.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

1 hour ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

When you watch a game like today, you have to wonder if Bakayoko and Kessie is what we really want next to Kante. 

Exact same thoughts. 

We need a CM who we can confidently say is as press-resistant as Moussa Dembele/Paul Pogba. Idk if Bakayoko fills that bill, will need to d/l some matches/watch AS Monaco more often to get a gauge of how press-resistant he is. 

Chelsea are immune to landing such players.

Nothing new mind you...

[dkim2 73]

26 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

I disagree with your views on Conte's philosophy in the build up. It's not passing the ball to the flanks. There are many detailed analyses on his approach to the build up phase.

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2016/07/22/antonio-conte-exploring-italys-tactics-at-euro-2016/

As for Bakayoko. You said it yourself, his passing is not that great. For me this is a big problem if he's going to be played next to Kante in a midfield two. One solution might be to play him with Fabregas and Kante in a 3-5-2, but this takes away from the overload advantage we've had in th half-space with Pedro and Hazard. It also puts too much pressure on our wing-backs to generate attacks. For me, Bakayoko is not the answer to our central midfield problem. I'll rather sign Dahoud.

I disagree with your view as it is obvious Conte's transfer target lists are steel b2b player who can do the job for both #6 and #8 rather than playmaker type. 

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

31 minutes ago, dkim2 said:

Bakayoko? He is very very strong player who can cope with strong press and can get out of it at ease. He can bomb forward with his dribbles. He is defensively very strong. There are not many players who can do that. (especially who can handle high press and bring the ball to attacking third via middle. Yaya in his prime comes to mind) His passing is not that great but Conte cares less about pass from his midfield that's why he always targets players with not-so-great passing skills but is a steel from midfield. 

Im guessing you've watched him play then? I haven't so am deffering to you on this. But I hope Bakayoko is as press-resistant as you've described. 

Because what I would give to have Dembele (from Spurs) here. He is the prototypical CM that we desperately need when up against the high press. 

[Mufassir08 2,400]

15 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

I won't mind someone like Mahmoud Dahoud at Borussia by the way. I'm not sure if he's ready to make the next big step but he's the mold of midfielder we need next to Kante.

What about Corentin Tolisso?

[Fernando 6,375]

Man United eyeing Tiemoue Bakayoko, may make January move - sources

http://www.espnfc.us/story/3036440/man-united-targeting-monacos-tiemoue-bakayoko-may-move-in-january-sources

[akgw13 867]

1 hour ago, Fernando said:

Man United eyeing Tiemoue Bakayoko, may make January move - sources

http://www.espnfc.us/story/3036440/man-united-targeting-monacos-tiemoue-bakayoko-may-move-in-january-sources

Pogba and Bakayoko would make for a serious midfield. Lets hope its lazy journalism connecting them rather than fact

[quickpassnmove 924]

worrying development if Bakayoko is a PL top quality player in the making. ManUtd setting up to actually become title challengers with some fullback buys. At the moment it's Carrick and Herrera making them tick... Carrick well-aged.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

  I've been watching Monaco a lot recently just to see Bakayoko more against Ligue 1 opposition. The games weren't really competitive so he wasn't pressed or tested defensively, but with the ball he's fantastic. A powerhouse, skillful, holds on to the ball and makes good forward thinking passes. Another thing is he's always ready to make positive runs with the ball at his feet and it's very difficult to stop him. Against Nice and Montpellier especially, he was really good but against PSG, he looked laboured. Let's see how he fares against a top class midfield and intense game-planning in the form of Manchester City and Guardiola. 

On 05/01/2017 at 3:54 PM, Mufassir08 said:

What about Corentin Tolisso?

I like him a lot. He has a greater engine on him than Bakayoko and is a solid passer though he's not the physical specimen Bakayoko is, obviously. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

6 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

  I've been watching Monaco a lot recently...

Me too, since half their squad began to be linked with us.

6 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

 ...with the ball [Bakayoko is] fantastic. A powerhouse, skillful, holds on to the ball and makes good forward thinking passes. Another thing is he's always ready to make positive runs with the ball at his feet and it's very difficult to stop him...

There is more than one way to play the 'six' position but to be a genuinely good team you need a player capable of playing it as you describe here. It simultaneously makes your side more threatening going forward and more solid defensively. Before the start of next season we need to acquire a player who can do this. Bakayoko is such a player.

 

6 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

 ...Against Nice and Montpellier especially, he was really good but against PSG, he looked laboured...

It's worth mentioning that he put in a number of really good tackles in those games too.

90% of the time a non-defender touches the ball, the next thing he needs to do with it is make a simple pass. Opportunities to do more impressive things don't happen all the time but the key is having the quality to exploit them when they do. Even players of the highest calibre experience games like Bakayoko endured vs PSG. Games where chances to do special things don't present themselves, or where the player is just not on it. The secret during times like those is to do the simple stuff, avoid hurting your team, and live to fight another day.

My feeling is Bakayoko fits the template. Is he the final answer? I don't know, but he would certainly be a major upgrade over what we have now.

6 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

 ...Let's see how he fares against a top class midfield and intense game-planning in the form of Manchester City and Guardiola...

I've been looking forward to this game for weeks. Can't wait.