Thomas Hitzlsperger announces he is gay

[Kieran. 6,317]

No, it definitely is the right attitude. Exactly the same as it is the right attitude not to give a fuck about someone's religion, for instance. The only reason why people face discrimination is because of a narrow-minded majority who do make an issue out of it.

Doesn't work like that. Because gay people face discrimination every day should make you care and applaud a brave act like this. "Who cares" brushes it off and dismisses it.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Also, since when is erasing people's identities cool? For example, if someone is a proud gay man, you're not gonna recognize he's gay because it shouldn't bother you? Well, no, he's gay and that's part of his identity. Same for religion and race. A black man proud of his heritage will want you to recognize him being black. I guess that's another discussion though.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Doesn't work like that. Because gay people face discrimination every day should make you care and applaud a brave act like this. "Who cares" brushes it off and dismisses it.

Oh no, I totally agree with that. My point is people shouldn't care, because it doesn't affect them in any way if a person is gay, straight, bi, or otherwise. But sadly people make a big deal out of it, and in the end is requires bravery like this to come out.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Never understood this attitude that you shouldn't care about stuff like this because there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. Well guess what? Gay people face social stigma and discrimination EVERY DAY and for you to have a passive attitude like "who cares" is fucking sickening tbh. It's a bad attitude to have towards it and shouldn't be glorified as "the right attitude." Ugh.

Also, I read that he has no need to come out because heterosexual players don't feel have to announce their sexuality (dave30)...JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!

No, it definitely is the right attitude. Exactly the same as it is the right attitude not to give a fuck about someone's religion, for instance. The only reason why people face discrimination is because of a narrow-minded majority who do make an issue out of it.

I don't think the 'who-cares' is not the attitude we should be having right now.

Its obviously a big deal when a footballer comes out saying he is gay. He is brave enough to admit it and it took a lot of courage to come out with such a big news. He, obviously, did it for the betterment of the gay community and to reduce the stigma associated with being gay among professional footballers. Might as well give him the finger rather than the 'who cares' attitude. It belittle his point of coming out as gay.

[Term-X 7,891]

The question of 'then why can't Eva also use the communal showers' shoots down any counter-argument.

[Term-X 7,891]

Just take a step back and analyse this page of the thread... notice how nobody can answer it?, it's just mindless offense being taken.. but no answer to that simple fallacy. ^

[DavidEU 2,023]

Just take a step back and analyse this page of the thread... notice how nobody can answer it?, it's just mindless offense being taken.. but no answer to that simple fallacy. ^

Mindless offence? You're better off just leaving this conversation 'cos you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Your Eva 'question' is literally too stupid to humour with a proper response. If you genuinely need an answer to that, then.... wow.

[dave30 728]

Mindless offence? You're better off just leaving this conversation 'cos you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Your Eva 'question' is literally too stupid to humour with a proper response. If you genuinely need an answer to that, then.... wow.

I'd honestly like an answer? if its not deemed acceptable for members of the opposite sex to shower together communally then i get his point.

[Term-X 7,891]

Philosophy 101:

Take sex out of the equation and males/females could shower together in society. As a species we wouldn't last long (lmao) but we could use communal showers together.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

It has nothing to do with rape, it's just nature, if an openly gay man is allowed in a communal shower then so is Eva Carneiro.

Simple.

LMAO!! Tx lol

[Amblève. 4,995]

Also, I read that he has no need to come out because heterosexual players don't feel have to announce their sexuality (dave30)...JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!

The thing is though, heterosexual players are showing their sexuality ALL THE FUCKING TIME, for example, when they're attending clubs' parties with their girlfriends and wives. But this is so common that nobody even gives a fuck about it.

[Stingray 9,441]

Philosophy 101:

Take sex out of the equation and males/females could shower together in society. As a species we wouldn't last long (lmao) but we could use communal showers together.

There are instances, cultures where nudity does not automatically mean sexuality. Try indiginous people (eg. Yanomamo indians in the amazon). Also, the entire nudism movement is based on being exempt from sexuality. Try walking around a nudist beach with a boner for instance. Or sauna's, or .... Fill it in :-) examples galore of a decoupling of nudity and sexuality. In other era's (victorian) sexuality was so repressed even the sight of a naked ankle would put a man through a testosterone rush. So it is really dependant on the context.

Also, the Eva argument is flawed imo. The one objecting would be Eva (women being objectified sexually much more then man throughout history), so in that sense the objecting in your analogy would be coming from the gay guy, right?

Why would he do that if it is not sexual for him? Do you think gay sporters in a fitness club, football club, or wherever run around with hard-ons?

I would with Eva though ...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No, it definitely is the right attitude. Exactly the same as it is the right attitude not to give a fuck about someone's religion, for instance. The only reason why people face discrimination is because of a narrow-minded majority who do make an issue out of it.

In an ideal world, I would totally agree. But the issue is that there is discrimination and homophobia does exist. That is why we need to work to get rid of those things in our societies and the people who are working on this would be very happy with a positive and accepting reaction for fans and the media about this because it creates a supporting environment and atmosphere for more homosexual footballers to come out in the future so that eventually enough people "come out" such that it would be a normal thing and we end up in a society were there would no need to "come out".

The question of 'then why can't Eva also use the communal showers' shoots down any counter-argument.

No, I totally get the point you are trying to make. But what I do not get is how you deduced that the solution is for homosexual footballers to not "come out" and to continue to be discriminated against and not accepted in society instead of the solution being the obvious one (to me at least) which is to not have communal showers because communal showers themselves are a form of discrimination against homosexuals because they assume that all their users are heterosexuals.

[Term-X 7,891]

There are instances, cultures where nudity does not automatically mean sexuality. Try indiginous people (eg. Yanomamo indians in the amazon). Also, the entire nudism movement is based on being exempt from sexuality. Try walking around a nudist beach with a boner for instance. Or sauna's, or .... Fill it in :-) examples galore of a decoupling of nudity and sexuality. In other era's (victorian) sexuality was so repressed even the sight of a naked ankle would put a man through a testosterone rush. So it is really dependant on the context.

Also, the Eva argument is flawed imo. The one objecting would be Eva (women being objectified sexually much more then man throughout history), so in that sense the objecting in your analogy would be coming from the gay guy, right?

Why would he do that if it is not sexual for him? Do you think gay sporters in a fitness club, football club, or wherever run around with hard-ons?

I would with Eva though ...

- My argument was based on the premise that homosexuality is biological, something in which science is slowly proving.

- How would you know that it wouldn't bring on urges for the gay guy?, it's not something that can be categorically ruled out like it can with a shower full of straight guys.

- If a gay man is open about his preference.. then that changes the WHOLE dynamic of that locker room, and that's just the reality.

[Stingray 9,441]

There are instances, cultures where nudity does not automatically mean sexuality. Try indiginous people (eg. Yanomamo indians in the amazon). Also, the entire nudism movement is based on being exempt from sexuality. Try walking around a nudist beach with a boner for instance. Or sauna's, or .... Fill it in :-) examples galore of a decoupling of nudity and sexuality. In other era's (victorian) sexuality was so repressed even the sight of a naked ankle would put a man through a testosterone rush. So it is really dependant on the context.

Also, the Eva argument is flawed imo. The one objecting would be Eva (women being objectified sexually much more then man throughout history), so in that sense the objecting in your analogy would be coming from the gay guy, right?

Why would he do that if it is not sexual for him? Do you think gay sporters in a fitness club, football club, or wherever run around with hard-ons?

I would with Eva though ...

- My argument was based on the premise that homosexuality is biological, something in which science is slowly proving.

- How would you know that it wouldn't bring on urges for the gay guy?, it's not something that can be categorically ruled out like it can with a shower full of straight guys.

- If a gay man is open about his preference.. then that changes the WHOLE dynamic of that locker room, and that's just the reality.

Lol!!!

I am not even going in on that argument Term, it is the naturalistic fallacy. Biological means nothing in this debate: you are talking morals here, remember. I know it is biological, where have I said anything that even comes close to this topic.

Urges: so is that what you fear? The gay man might have an urge? To do what exactly? Lol! This sounds more funny than serious tbh.

If he is open: yes, if YOU make it sexual. That is what I was implying, really. It is only a problem if you see it as sexual.

It sounds like your fear of the Gay Dong is much more the problem than philosophy 101 !

Must read: it will make the menace of Schlong Invasion go away

http://prospect.org/article/are-gay-guys-checking-you-out-locker-room

[Term-X 7,891]

"If you make it sexual"?, so... that's the counter.

Ok then, Eva doesn't see it as sexual, the players won't 'make it sexual' why can't she join in?..

Eva has no problem with it and she has the same mindset as a gay guy.

[Stingray 9,441]

"If you make it sexual"?, so... that's the counter.

Ok then, Eva doesn't see it as sexual, the players won't 'make it sexual' why can't she join in?..

Eva has no problem with it and she has the same mindset as a gay guy.

Yes, It was a reply because you made inferences about urges gay guys will have, lmao.

Also: you conveniently didnt reply to all the rest. Actually, yes: if neither party sees it as sexual: what is wrong with it. We have mixed sauna's here. Plenty of societies people run around butt naked. We have mixed showers in public places. Some countries like to shit mixed next to each other (sorry to any chinese readers) It is about culture and customs, nothing more. What is so strange about it, Term?

[Term-X 7,891]

Yes, It was a reply because you made inferences about urges gay guys will have, lmao.

Also: you conveniently didnt reply to all the rest. Actually, yes: if neither party sees it as sexual: what is wrong with it. We have mixed sauna's here. We have mixed showers in public places. It is about culture and customs, nothing more.

^ Will Could have

Ok then, so come Saturday at the KC stadium Eva Carneiro (the same sexual orientation as a gay man) will be lathering up with the team 'if she wants'. Sorted, done, next topic.

If we're changing the culture & customs of football it has to be done without double standards.