Why do people hate established players?

[Blueman 57]

As I go through my everyday reading of the forums I always find something in common, and that is everybody hates old players. I find someone saying Ballack is shite then the other Deco cant even pass and the third urging not to buy Ribery nor David villa (although they are not that old). So is it because they are really "shite" and have lost it or is it because they are rich assholes who don't care about football anymore and are just in it for the money? Maybe it is because of the people who tell us that the great Chelsea club is a retirement home for old players so we now have world class player phobia. Whatever the cause may be I just think that this hate is wrong because these players are the ones who pull the team through the tough matches and can grind out results. Look at arsenal their biggest weakness, is the same thing that you want which is youth and look now how the gooners are envying us; while everybody talks about their fancy football they are going into 5 years without a trophy. Of course we should have young talent but a healthy mix of both must be present. Finally, are you with or against established aging players.

So I just want your thoughts on this topic. This is my first post and I hope it is one of many. UP THE CHELS!

[Term-X 7,891]

when your paying 30 million for a 28-30 year old who has a second to impress or he's a failure it's just not worth it. If pato (20 years old) failed to make an instant impression he would still have time to adapt to the premier league.

ac milan won things with older players because most of them have been at the club since age 14 lmao

[Rambo 1,729]

Nice signature blueman

[Blueman 57]

when your paying 30 million for a 28-30 year old who has a second to impress or he's a failure it's just not worth it. If pato (20 years old) failed to make an instant impression he would still have time to adapt to the premier league.

ac milan won things with older players because most of them have been at the club since age 14 lmao

Well yeah you got a point there but I think that some experienced players can cope a lot faster than younger ones like ballack who had a great first season and although people bash him a lot, he is a part of Chelsea's backbone at the moment.

[Blueman 57]

Nice signature blueman

Thanks mate

[Chelseasgirl 1]

It can just be abit hit and miss. Either these older players tend to make it or they dont, and thing of the 'hype' around a lot of them aswell.

A certain mix is good and everything. Though your point about Arsenal, they may have gone trophy less for numerous years but when all the youngsters come through, they could very well be more of a force.

[Badboy 1,526]

As I go through my everyday reading of the forums I always find something in common, and that is everybody hates old players. I find someone saying Ballack is shite then the other Deco cant even pass and the third urging not to buy Ribery nor David villa (although they are not that old). So is it because they are really "shite" and have lost it or is it because they are rich assholes who don't care about football anymore and are just in it for the money? Maybe it is because of the people who tell us that the great Chelsea club is a retirement home for old players so we now have world class player phobia. Whatever the cause may be I just think that this hate is wrong because these players are the ones who pull the team through the tough matches and can grind out results. Look at arsenal their biggest weakness, is the same thing that you want which is youth and look now how the gooners are envying us; while everybody talks about their fancy football they are going into 5 years without a trophy. Of course we should have young talent but a healthy mix of both must be present. Finally, are you with or against established aging players.

So I just want your thoughts on this topic. This is my first post and I hope it is one of many. UP THE CHELS!

Blueman its all about investments. In my opinion even a 27 year old is too old, think about it by the time that 27 year old has played 152 premiership games he is 31 years of age. He might need 38 premiership games to get used to people slamming into him at high speed. So that 27 year old will give us 114 games of good quality football (if he can make the grade). Thats just not enough because after 31 they start to decline, for the exception of players like drogba who started his footballing career late. Gael kakuta is a highly skilled young footballer, even at this early stage of his career he uses his brain to play the game. Now the problem with many young footballers is they try to rush everything and are not used to using their brains to play the game. Young players that use their brains to play the game are rare, because this is something players gain through age so to find someone who is 18-19-20-21 with a football brain is like finding gold. So we should invest money in players who are from the ages 18 to 24 with an advanced footballing brain. Players that are 27 28 29 can be signed no probs but not for crazy money, crazy money like 30 million should be spent on a aguero instead of a villa.

[Ollie 4,400]

And it's about what they have actually done for us. I couldn't care less what Deco did for Porto or what Ballack did at Bayern, we need these to perform at Chelsea. Sheva was the same although he really did give his all bless him.

We pay these players a lot of dough, they MUST perform and earn their money.

[Blueman 57]

And it's about what they have actually done for us. I couldn't care less what Deco did for Porto or what Ballack did at Bayern, we need these to perform at Chelsea. Sheva was the same although he really did give his all bless him.

We pay these players a lot of dough, they MUST perform and earn their money.

Well Ballack has given a lot to the club as he has been a 90 minute regular for a long time with effective passing and defensive descipline. He is also a leader on the pitch and a great inspiration for younger players. As for Deco he has been brilliant at the tip of the diamond and links well with anelka and drogs. Furthermore I would argue that Ballack has been a greater success at Chelsea than sheva.

[Matterz 67]

when your paying 30 million for a 28-30 year old who has a second to impress or he's a failure it's just not worth it. If pato (20 years old) failed to make an instant impression he would still have time to adapt to the premier league.

ac milan won things with older players because most of them have been at the club since age 14 lmao

I dont agree, I feel that when you pay that kind of money for any player, regardless of their age, they should make an instant impression. Im pretty sure that if we were to buy Aguero and he in turn produced the same sort of performances as for example Kalou has over two or three years he would be considered a flop.

[Ollie 4,400]

I think Deco's been terrible this season, looked good in pre season and in a few games earlier in the season but apart from that, he's not been great at all, especially in the big games. He's a bottle job and gives the ball away all the time. Ballack has been good in spells, his best spell was when lampard was injured during the 07/08 campaign around xmas time but he just looks past it now, he's been disappointing this season so far. The consistency isn't there, his passing is not as it was, he over hits everything. Sheva was a failure yeah, he was a striker. Ballack and Deco have more important roles and i dont think they can do those roles at their age in the toughest league in the world. Sheva wasn't what he was in his younger days and was therefore sold/released whatever.

[Badboy 1,526]

I dont agree, I feel that when you pay that kind of money for any player, regardless of their age, they should make an instant impression. Im pretty sure that if we were to buy Aguero and he in turn produced the same sort of performances as for example Kalou has over two or three years he would be considered a flop.

Cristiano ronaldo was poor for his first 4 years at united, he done more step overs then passes in his first 4 years. United kept playing him week in week out, his 5th season he took the premiership by storm and in reality was the most important player in a team that won 3 premiership titles and a european cup. If a young player has pure ability (like aguero) and is struggling in his first few years you should not give up on him. I would rather us bring borini through then sign aguero to be honest though.

[Matterz 67]

Cristiano ronaldo was poor for his first 4 years at united, he done more step overs then passes in his first 4 years. United kept playing him week in week out, his 5th season he took the premiership by storm and in reality was the most important player in a team that won 3 premiership titles and a european cup. If a young player has pure ability (like aguero) and is struggling in his first few years you should not give up on him. I would rather us bring borini through then sign aguero to be honest though.

I agree, young players should be given time, but unfortunately he was an exception and while they were waiting for him to blossom they won pretty much nothing. We as Chelsea fans arent the most patient and I find it hard to believe that we would tolerate poor performances from a 40 million pound singing for a few years. Thats of course not to say that he wont be an instant sucess, I actually think he would be but its all"if's" and 'buts".

[Badboy 1,526]

I agree, young players should be given time, but unfortunately he was an exception and while they were waiting for him to blossom they won pretty much nothing. We as Chelsea fans arent the most patient and I find it hard to believe that we would tolerate poor performances from a 40 million pound singing for a few years. Thats of course not to say that he wont be an instant sucess, I actually think he would be but its all"if's" and 'buts".

No man utd won nothing in the 4 years ronaldo was developing except the fa cup.

[carefreeluke 27]

As I go through my everyday reading of the forums I always find something in common, and that is everybody hates old players. I find someone saying Ballack is shite then the other Deco cant even pass and the third urging not to buy Ribery nor David villa (although they are not that old). So is it because they are really "shite" and have lost it or is it because they are rich assholes who don't care about football anymore and are just in it for the money? Maybe it is because of the people who tell us that the great Chelsea club is a retirement home for old players so we now have world class player phobia. Whatever the cause may be I just think that this hate is wrong because these players are the ones who pull the team through the tough matches and can grind out results. Look at arsenal their biggest weakness, is the same thing that you want which is youth and look now how the gooners are envying us; while everybody talks about their fancy football they are going into 5 years without a trophy. Of course we should have young talent but a healthy mix of both must be present. Finally, are you with or against established aging players.

So I just want your thoughts on this topic. This is my first post and I hope it is one of many. UP THE CHELS!

Probably one of the best posts i've read on these forums.

[Laylabelle 9,534]

Also seems a case of now because the Sheva situation went so wrong,seems everything now thinks its always going to be a case of any player whose old we bring in now is gana be crap.Which aint true.You could bring in a youngster and they can turn out not so great and all.

But like said,dont care of the age tbh as long as they bring the form their had at the old club to Chelsea.Sheva way to much expecation and pressure and just didnt work out but yeh he did try!Didnt just kinda give up and all.Long as they yeh bring the form,try etc.Dont mind about age.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Laylabelle

[carefreeluke 27]

Also seems a case of now because the Sheva situation went so wrong,seems a case of any player whose old we bring in now is gana be crap.Which aint true.You could bring in a youngster and they can turn out not so great and all.

But like said,dont care of the age tbh as long as they bring the form their had at the old club to Chelsea.Sheva way to much expecation and pressure and just didnt work out but yeh he did try!Didnt just kinda give up and all.Long as they yeh bring the form,try etc.Dont mind about age.

Good point, but with Sheva it could of worked out, we didn't give him the chance...

[Blueman 57]

Probably one of the best posts i've read on these forums.

Thanks a lot. This has been going through my mind for a while now.

Good point, but with Sheva it could of worked out, we didn't give him the chance...

You are right he didn't have a chance to have a good run. Everytime he started to shift into the next gear he was either injured or taken out of the first eleven for a match or two.

[Term-X 7,891]

Cristiano ronaldo was poor for his first 4 years at united, he done more step overs then passes in his first 4 years. United kept playing him week in week out, his 5th season he took the premiership by storm and in reality was the most important player in a team that won 3 premiership titles and a european cup. If a young player has pure ability (like aguero) and is struggling in his first few years you should not give up on him. I would rather us bring borini through then sign aguero to be honest though.

exactly, and whats really disappointing is kakuta is of that caliber but instead of turning him into he next ronaldo by actually playing him, we will probably wait until he's kalou's age and has only had training ground experience.

..

[Matterz 67]

Thanks a lot. This has been going through my mind for a while now.

You are right he didn't have a chance to have a good run. Everytime he started to shift into the next gear he was either injured or taken out of the first eleven for a match or two.

I whole heartedly agree with you, I dont think people realise how important players like Ballack and Mikel for example are and what they do on the filed that people dont recognise that influences a game. How many clever fouls has Ballack given away when the opposition is counter attacking to break up their play?

On th epoint of Sheva, I just think we all need to let it go, if we carry going back to him every time a 30 - 40 million potential signing come up then we will never sign anyone.