CHOULO19 24,332 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 He is as much over as Frank Lampard, our best player and scorer this season, is.He is just being used as the scrape goat for our defensive failure because he simply does not have the pace to chase attackers when they break our high-line defense, not now, not even when he was 25.But our problem with the high-line, in my opinion, lies in the midfield and not the defense. The only way a defensive line this high could work is if we don't lose possession in open play, so practically only barcelona could do it.It's not a matter of personnel but rather system. I'm confident that AVB will soon find a compromise between how we used to defend and how defended (or attempted) to defend this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 4,400 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Its so hard to determine of JT is passed it because i thought he had a fantastic couple of seasons just gone and he never had pace, i still think he's good but so much has happened, it's maybe a psychological thing, he must have everything going through his mind. The penalty, the affair, the stripping of England captaincy, the racism.... i mean ffs, some ppl would commit suicide lol. And even Lamps, he got abused and dropped then suddenly we saw glimpses of the old lamps again. Oh and also.... Drogba. He got the Golden boot with 29 goals in 2010 then he got malaria and a couple of injuries and we bought Torres so since his goalscoring form of 09-10, he's not had a chance to carry on, he's not had an extended run in the team at all. He is still good enough and better than Torres imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krypt 241 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 We should be looking at Luiz's performances as well there are two centre backs in this formation we shouldn't use JT as a scapegoat just because he is older. As we have said JT has never had pace its up to Luiz to cover that , but he tends to be up the field and we are left with Mikel .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYC. 7,542 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 We should be looking at Luiz's performances as well there are two centre backs in this formation we shouldn't use JT as a scapegoat just because he is older. As we have said JT has never had pace its up to Luiz to cover that , but he tends to be up the field and we are left with Mikel ....True. David Luiz' positional sense is terrible for a CB and his decision-making is poor too.We just lack a world-class CB duo. But then again, we do have very high standards, coming from Terry in his prime together with one of the best defenders in the 00's Riccy Carvalho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krypt 241 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 True. David Luiz' positional sense is terrible for CB and his decision-making is poor too.We just lack a world-class CB duo. But then again, we do have very high standards, coming from Terry in his prime together with one of the best defenders in the 00's Riccy Carvalho.As much as it pains me to say it Gallas was one of our best overall defenders , the main problem is we havent had a world class CB paring since Riccy and Gallas left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYC. 7,542 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 As much as it pains me to say it Gallas was one of our best overall defenders , the main problem is we havent had a world class CB paring since Riccy and Gallas left.Yeah Gallas was class in his better years, he still is a very good defender but he's become very injury-prone. Doesn't know the meaning of the word loyalty though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,535 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yeah Gallas was class in his better years, he still is a very good defender but he's become very injury-prone. Doesn't know the meaning of the word loyalty though.Yeah and its a shame it all went so wrong! Whatever went on behind the scenes or whatever his depature was to do with..annoying but agree with the loyalty thing.He seemed to have a habit paper wise anyho of moaning about managers and such while he was playing for that team.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYC. 7,542 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yeah and its a shame it all went so wrong! Whatever went on behind the scenes or whatever his depature was to do with..annoying but agree with the loyalty thing.He seemed to have a habit paper wise anyho of moaning about managers and such while he was playing for that team..The whole Gallas story was so vague and confusing to me.. did he actually admit to make own goals if he wasn't let go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krypt 241 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yeah and its a shame it all went so wrong! Whatever went on behind the scenes or whatever his depature was to do with..annoying but agree with the loyalty thing.He seemed to have a habit paper wise anyho of moaning about managers and such while he was playing for that team..You could say the same thing about Ashley Cole and Arsenal. Most players are in it for the money and success nowadays JT is a rare breed but i wonder if he would have stuck around if we had not had the success we have had.Anyway back on topic , i dont think one person is to blame with the defensive mistakes Terry , Luiz and Cole are all at fault at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRiver 1,512 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yes he is definitely past it. But he is still better than Luiz, because unlike Luiz, he knows what he wants but unfortunately he's not able to do it. Luiz looks completely lost, as if he's not realising what's going on. It's time for seriousness rather than silly jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,535 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 You could say the same thing about Ashley Cole and Arsenal. Most players are in it for the money and success nowadays JT is a rare breed but i wonder if he would have stuck around if we had not had the success we have had.Anyway back on topic , i dont think one person is to blame with the defensive mistakes Terry , Luiz and Cole are all at fault at the moment.True but hey least JT and Cole never sulked off to the middle of the pitch...most are for the money defo just some have better ways of hiding it....hmmm would like to think so The whole OG bout Gallas god knows how much truth was to that,seemed more paper talk really..was such a random thing to have happened and if wanted to leave so much why start moaning about Arsenal and Wenger the way he did..all a bit hmmmAgree there doesnt seem to be the understanding beteween them either,not sure of where the other is going sorta thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDN Blue 7,903 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Clearly.. Alex has slipped down the pecking order at the club. He'll probably be sold.Then, Ivanovic is a back-up CB. Leaving Bosingwa to leave us vulnerable down that whole flank. This is why I believe we're chasing Gary Cahill. To keep Terry sharp & on his toes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francozola 2,040 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I thought that we were ok in terms of CBs but our horror show defensively so far this season makes me think we need one, if not two more quality CBs. Like LDN_Blue said Alex is definitely on his way out, and Ivanovic should just be used as a RB and not a CB. So we've only got JT and Luiz and both are liabilities in different ways so we need to get one CB in January imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Clearly.. Alex has slipped down the pecking order at the club. He'll probably be sold.Then, Ivanovic is a back-up CB. Leaving Bosingwa to leave us vulnerable down that whole flank. This is why I believe we're chasing Gary Cahill. To keep Terry sharp & on his toes.I am either a genius or a very deluded and arrogant man for thinking so , but I believe I know the only defender that would solve our defensive problems. He is perfect for the defensive high-line we are playing because he is one of the fastest defenders in the world and has great passing skills.Who is this super man, you ask? Our savior in my opinion is milan's Thiago Silva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strong centreback 157 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 My belief is if we are after cahill it is because he has been identified as being the eventual replacement for JT, terry god love him is gonna be doing well to still be playing at 33 let alone as a first choice for a title challenger, he has racked up alot of miles and injurys over the last 10 years so if he is still a week in week out for us in 2 years time that alone is an achievement as far as im concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDN Blue 7,903 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I am either a genius or a very deluded and arrogant man for thinking so , but I believe I know the only defender that would solve our defensive problems. He is perfect for the defensive high-line we are playing because he is one of the fastest defenders in the world and has great passing skills.Who is this super man, you ask? Our savior in my opinion is milan's Thiago Silva.Well you're not deluded.Easily one of the best centre-back's in the world at the moment. Which makes his signing so impossible for us to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Well you're not deluded.Easily one of the best centre-back's in the world at the moment. Which makes his signing so impossible for us to make.He is like Luiz but without the terribly wrong decisions.I don't remember we ever showed interest in him, but I'm not sure about the impossibility of signing him. He is not that highly rated at Milan. I think they would sell him for the right price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYC. 7,542 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 He is like Luiz but without the terribly wrong decisions.I don't remember we ever showed interest in him, but I'm not sure about the impossibility of signing him. He is not that highly rated at Milan. I think they would sell him for the right price.Where did you get that from? He is an absolute hero at Milan and he recently extended his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojo 4,676 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 We should be looking at Luiz's performances as well there are two centre backs in this formation we shouldn't use JT as a scapegoat just because he is older. As we have said JT has never had pace its up to Luiz to cover that , but he tends to be up the field and we are left with Mikel ....JT is not getting the blame because he's old, and Luiz was our best player in defence against Liverpool. Terry couldn't tackle, pass or handle the pressure, he had a bad game, Luiz did well and he doesn't deserve punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krypt 241 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 JT is not getting the blame because he's old, and Luiz was our best player in defence against Liverpool. Terry couldn't tackle, pass or handle the pressure, he had a bad game, Luiz did well and he doesn't deserve punishment.I am not only talking about the one game against Liverpool im talking about the CB partnership in a whole. I thought Luiz was our best CB on Sunday but that by no means he had the best game , for example he had 4 Liverpool players around him in our half and tried to dribble it out instead of clearing it which lead to him making a foul a player which lead to a dangerous free kick. I just think he needs to make some better decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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