Massacre In Paris

[ZanSnake 1,211]

BBC's picked up on the 'Pray for The World' and FaceBook French flag option and its controversy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-34833134

[Yeboii 1,844]

So France are bombing Syria now..well, I'm not surprised, they prepared after (only) 48h. Good tactic for ignorants.

hahahahha really man? Do you think the goverment of France did this themselves so they can bomb Syria?

Talking about ignorance...

[Yeboii 1,844]

Well can be the same what USA did themselves.Do you know what secret service France have? One the strongest. Do you still believe that they(killers) could walk so easly how they did last night in 7 different places? Where are the names of them? Who support them? How long they prepared the attack?

Still no answer from France or world.

What are you talking about? We are getting plenty of information from France and their police. Of course France has one of the strongest secret service since they are one of the biggest and most powerful nations in the world. France, Belgium and the whole of Europe is a huge place yes and its near impossible to keep track of everyone and all their plans. We are getting names as well and we all know ISIS supported them.

You gotta go check out the news outlets because we are getting plenty of answers and names. At least real conspiracy theorists don't make up facts, they bend them, but you are just making up facts here.

[Stingray 9,441]

Well can be the same what USA did themselves.Do you know what secret service France have? One the strongest. Do you still believe that they(killers) could walk so easly how they did last night in 7 different places? Where are the names of them? Who support them? How long they prepared the attack?

Still no answer from France or world.

They kinda came from Belgium, we have the shittiest secret service in the world tbh

[Miguelito 459]

I have been keeping up with this topic, and seen a lot of really good posts on why this has happened and where to go from here. In saying that, I am really trying to educate myself on this, but having a little trouble piecing everything together. Different posts have given different views and only parts of it. I know that each person's opinion is different and a little biased, but just wondering how everyone sees it.

I have been told by friends that ISIS members started from people who al-Queda did not want because they were too extreme for them. Also friends have told me a big cause of it was that we (the US) pulled too many troops out early (they blamed this on Obama). Now truthfully this friend is a Republican, meaning they are probably biased with it comes to it. I figured it would be best to split this in to two parts. The how it happened and where to go.

1) So can someone or even a few people go through how/why ISIS came to be? How, if any, was Al-Queda related? How did the USA or any other countries invading Iraq and other areas impact it? Also, how has it gotten this far?

2) How do you think we can go from here? I don't think bombing them until everyone is dead will work, so where to go? And why doesn't bombing work that well?

By the way, I am in no way one of those naive Americans that feels entitled to everything, and think that the US is the best in everything. It is super obvious we are not. So you can feel free to be honest/harsh on your assessment of the US.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I have been keeping up with this topic, and seen a lot of really good posts on why this has happened and where to go from here. In saying that, I am really trying to educate myself on this, but having a little trouble piecing everything together. Different posts have given different views and only parts of it. I know that each person's opinion is different and a little biased, but just wondering how everyone sees it.

I have been told by friends that ISIS members started from people who al-Queda did not want because they were too extreme for them. Also friends have told me a big cause of it was that we (the US) pulled too many troops out early (they blamed this on Obama). Now truthfully this friend is a Republican, meaning they are probably biased with it comes to it. I figured it would be best to split this in to two parts. The how it happened and where to go.

1) So can someone or even a few people go through how/why ISIS came to be? How, if any, was Al-Queda related? How did the USA or any other countries invading Iraq and other areas impact it? Also, how has it gotten this far?

2) How do you think we can go from here? I don't think bombing them until everyone is dead will work, so where to go? And why doesn't bombing work that well?

By the way, I am in no way one of those naive Americans that feels entitled to everything, and think that the US is the best in everything. It is super obvious we are not. So you can feel free to be honest/harsh on your assessment of the US.

Going to try to be as brief and objective here as possible but those are very complicated questions you ask.

1) a) ISIS as a group actually came to be first in Iraq after the invasion (actually started inside US prisons in Iraq) and worked pretty much under Al Qaeda. But they then split from them in Syria in 2013/14 as a result of a political disagreement between Al Qaeda affiliates inside Syria and on the larger scale a political disagreement between Turkey and Qatar on one side who backed ISIS and USA and KSA on the other who backed Al Qaeda. That said, there are genuine 'religious' disputes between ISIS and Al Qaeda, mainly about killing Muslim civilians, dealing with hostages, execution methods...etc.

Regarding the so called 'caliphate', the idea predates ISIS in Syria. In fact even when the rebels in Syria were still being marketed as 'moderate freedom fighters' back in 2012, the idea of an Islamic Caliphate was known to US and allies in region and even encouraged as a means to further weaken the regime. Watch minutes 8 to 12 of this interview with the director of defense intelligence agency at the time saying exactly that:

https://youtu.be/SG3j8OYKgn4?t=8m2s

(in fact watch the whole thing if you have time as it will explain a lot of things you are asking about)

1) b ) The invasion of Iraq (and the sanctions before which were equally devastating but are forgotten by everyone) basically destroyed the society allowing for the rise of such extremist militias. Then the subsequent policies fueled the sectarian Sunni-Shia conflict that is now tearing the whole region apart because the US gave power almost conclusively to Shias (who were oppressed under Saddam) and got rid of most Sunnis in power (that's why most ISIS leaders now are former Iraqi army generals).

Then the invasion (and destruction) of Libya and the arms and funds that were thrown there mostly for religious extremist groups largely increased the numbers of Jihadi in the region (as well as whole of Africa for that matter) and their arming and battle readiness.

It has gotten this far because the US and allies had already destroyed most local forces that can actually fight religious extremism, namely Iraqi and Syrian regimes/armies, and because US and allies were actively supporting, funding and arming those extremists at the start of the Syrian 'revolution' and advertising them as freedom fighters, and because of the billions spent by KSA to radicalize Muslims in the region, and because of the billions spent by Iran to fund and arm extremists in Iraq after the invasion, and because both gulf states and Iran are fueling the Shia-Sunni conflict with inflammatory rhetoric on a daily basis as well as all sorts of other social, political, economic, military and even meteorological factors!

2) I've wrote something in this thread that relates to that:

Well to begin with, so called counter terrorism laws historically don't work. They just don't. On the contrary they tend to alienate people more and create more terrorists. To give just a couple of examples, take the NSA mass surveillance program which is supposedly protecting the country from terrorism, there was an investigation after the Snowden leaks and it turns out that throughout its entire history it managed to stop ONE 'terrorist': a man was wiring 2800 dollars to a suspicious group or something. That's why the government is intruding on the rights and privacy of all Americans. A more specific example would be the Charlie Hebdo attackers who were being monitored by the French authorities and still managed to get weapons and rocket launchers. In some cases, as is the case with bulk data collection, it actually hinders the ability of stopping actual attacks as people working in that field will tell you themselves. And that's actually no surprise as most of those laws are not aimed at stopping terrorist attacks but at controlling the population.

So what to actually do about ISIS attacks? Well let's look at what created the environment for the monstrosity that is ISIS to be born. No one with any knowledge of the politics of the region will argue against the fact that the main factor was doubtlessly the invasion of Iraq which hit an already very fragile society after years of genocidal sanctions with a sledge hammer and created a power vacuum that, along with the 'divide and rule' strategy used by the US army after the invasion, fueled the sectarian war that is now ripping the region into shreds. Then, because it obviously worked so well in Iraq, the same divide and rule tactics were used in Syria by US and regional allies by inflating the sunni-shia conflict and the perceived 'Iranian threat' to attempt to weaken the regime. Naturally extremists were always going to rise to the surface as result. Then of course you have gulf states and Turkey actively bringing the religious extremists to Syria then arming and funding them. Most still have connections with ISIS as was shown when the Turkish army walked straight through ISIS territory to retrieve a historic tomb from Syria and coordinated the recent joint attack of ISIS and 'moderate' rebels on the main Syrian regime supply rout in Aleppo. Then of course you have the fiasco that is invasion of Lybia from where A LOT of the ISIS and AQ fighters and weapons came into Syria. In fact the weapons given to the Lybian 'rebels' have spilled all over Africa and particularly Mali, Nigeria and Burkina and are the main reason behind the wave of terrorism in the continent.

But that all is already done, so what can help decrease the threat of ISIS now? It's actually simpler than you might think. ISIS to this day is still getting funding and arms from known sources in the gulf. Stop that. Stop the money they are getting from oil which EVERYONE is buying. Support popular local forces fighting against ISIS. ISIS's (and Al Qaeda's for that matter) violent extremists version of Islam is an offshoot from the Saudi Wahabi doctrine which the KSA spends billions on to sponsor and promote and create mosques for throughout the world. Stop that. Stop military tactics that are known to create more terrorists just because they generate revenue for powerful corporates such as drone strikes. Stop the flow of foreign fighters into Syria and Iraq, mainly from Jordan and Turkey. In Europe, stop scaring people into alienating and discriminating against Muslims just to get more votes in elections. Those are all just for starters and everyone knows them all. But there is no will to actually do any of that because EVERYONE benefits from ISIS.

In the future and going forward to avoid more Al Qaedas and ISISes, get your governments to stop invading countries and destroying regions for the benefit of oil and weapons companies. Stop pretending that the destruction of one region does not affect all of the world and realize that the entire planet is closely linked together. Abolish the believe that you can commit great violence anywhere on earth with no repercussions. Stop acting like all the resources on earth are theirs for the taking. And finally stop fueling and using religious extremism to do their dirty work like in Afghanistan, Libya and Syria, because they evidently can't control them. Actually, just stop interfering in other countries all together. That will probably do.

It's really no surprise at all the bombing doesn't work. Bombs kill people, and not just the intended people. In fact, statistically speaking, killing the intended people is usually the exception. So bombs tend to create more extremists faster than they can kill them. Because think about it, if you're a civilian going about your life and a bomb kills your father or son, regardless of what you think of ISIS or Al Qaeda, you are very likely to join them just for revenge for the death of your loved ones. Especially when those bombs come from 'the greatest devil'.

I will add that the only military solution that might work is to provide a united front that includes EVERYONE against ISIS and Al Qaeda. No alternative agendas, no regional and international gains, no liberators and liberated, no religious divides, a multi-cultural, multi-national, multi-religious...etc. front that includes everyone as equals because we're all in this mess as a world together. THAT is the quickest way to defeat the religious extremists.

But as I mentioned in the post above, first cut their funding and arming, quit sending weapons that are bound to end u quit using them for political gains, quit giving them what they want, and quit validating their rhetoric. Oh, and selling 1.29 billion dollars in arms to KSA is NOT helping...

Hope that gives you at least one perspective on the questions you asked.

[KevinAshburner 1,270]

#ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_3 - the game came out in late October 2011

In the game Battlefield 3 a terrorist attack occurs in Paris on Nov 13 2015

http://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-600371.html

In the game Battlefield 3 a terrorist attack occurs in Paris. Within the game it takes place on November 13th, 2015. I just looked up a walkthrough of the mission. Look at the little info box on the screen, bottom left.

Battlefield 3 PC Campaign Walkthrough - Mission 6 - Comrades - Max Settings 1080p

[kellzfresh 7,229]

#ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED

In the game Battlefield 3 a terrorist attack occurs in Paris on Nov 13 2015

http://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-600371.html

In the game Battlefield 3 a terrorist attack occurs in Paris. Within the game it takes place on November 13th, 2015. I just looked up a walkthrough of the mission. Look at the little info box on the screen, bottom left.

Battlefield 3 PC Campaign Walkthrough - Mission 6 - Comrades - Max Settings 1080p

Very strange lol.

I've seen some videos of some movies and cartoons showing signs of the 9/11 attack in USA. Strange coincidences....

[ZanSnake 1,211]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxh9ZgP7kc

[BlueLyon 9,359]

As long as people fail to understand the reasons behind the way ISIS, Al-Qaeda, etc. works, "The West" will never come close to "winning" (in this case, winning would be being safe).

Going by the fact the worst of all has already happened (which is the very first 91 invasion and then 2003 to escalate everything). There are still many who cant see the bigger picture.

As long as people are dumb enough to cultivate pre-made Internet solutions such as "nuke them", "close the borders", etc. ISIS will be laughing all they long because this is exactly what they want. The more undeserved hatred innocent and peaceful Muslims get, the greater the poll of recruits will be and so will the support of the general population.

Do you guys seriously think they attacked Paris because France is a "free" country? Because they somehow are jealous of the superb miserable life 90% of you live? GROW UP! It is a mere answer to the wrongdoings YOUR goverment does. It is completely, 100% unjustified, but it is still nothing more then a reaction. Nordic Countries are free, Canada is free, most of South America is free, etc. Why arent they targets? Well, I will tell you, it is because they didnt go messing up someone elses business. They didnt need that pathetic sense of "peaceful crusade" some nations have.

You disagree with me? Ok. Lets invert roles. ISIS invades England and determines your political system is corrupt and favours a vast minority so they redo it and put new people in charge (people who will not beneift UKs population but ISIS own personal system of course). Then they will close all clubs and pubs with alcohol consumption because this is part of our culture and not theirs (so its obviously a bad thing right?). Lots of people will die in the process of course, so then people start creating resistance groups in the UK . They do a couple successful attacks and then the UK citizens grow tired of a never ending conflict and decide to flee the Island in masses. However, they get turned down because some idiots on the internet decided it was best to "close the borders" for safety. In the end, refugees and general population put against each other while all they want is the same fucking thing, which is the ability to live their lives in peace.

Now, 2 comlon things that will most probably be replied so I will already answer.1) "People get shocked because France isnt at war and bla bla bla". Really? Then why were they the ones leading the offensives on Arabic Spring and now in Syria? This is war in my point of view. The only reason you are not being constantly attacked is because your oponent doesnt have access to modern weaponry. So if your country has or had troops in the Middle East in the last decade and plan to follow France in the near future, sorry to inform you but you are at war. 2) "But closing the borders will help against attacks". Come on, how smart are you? Do you honestly think that rejecting refugees will make it any harder for terrorist groups to infiltrate people into Europe? They will get people inside whether the borders are closed or not. So in the end you will be hurting the innocent and not doing much (if at all) against those who really matter.

One thing if refugees actualy wanted to escape war, they would be fucking happy to wait in greece, not moving into whole europe. But no they actualy complain where to go, what food and clothes should they recieve. If they were at war, they would only want to be in praceful area and get whatever help they can.

Secondly, looking at those pics huge number of refugees are adult men. Why not fight for their country then? They are in bigger numbers than "isis".

Thirdly I personaly dont want to have europe being overloaded by middle east people. Now they are minority, but couple decades from now they wont be anymore. You think they will change culture or law rules while living here? What happens once they will be in majority?

I personaly dont want that. Minority is acceptable, but this number of mass people isnt. They arent escaping war. They are looking for new territory to live and settle for ages. And their fucking war will come here sooner or later.

I may sound bit racist, but for the good of all europeans, borders should be closed as soon as possible. Yeah they are innocent, but looking bit more in future, it is bad for europe however you look at.

Bottom line if their religion and culture werent problematic, it wouldnt be that big problem except for race mixing (balkan people moved to germany years and years ago trying to escape their war too). But difference is in numbers and culture. Even 10 percent of agressive war looking immigrants out of 50m (or whatever number will arrive in europe during next few years) is risk for whole europe. Enough to change something.

And finaly something that probably everyone thinks, but doesnt want to talk about; think about the numbers of people comming in europe. Think right now its just beggining and even now we hardly control them. For sec pretend they wont start war. But in 20 years from now, all those millions of people in eu, including families who count few times more children than average eu family. Think of birth rates. Their race/religion will have rates quite higher than european. One day european, you, will be in minority in your own country. In the end they will force you to accept THEIR laws and religion and culture if their numbers get this high. Or even more attacks will happen on europeans. As if that isnt bad enough dont even think if they move their war here.

I sure dont want any of this.

History has tought us that. But people are still naive. Its far stretched what I said, but its possible with the number of people coming here.

They are invading EU and they dont even need weapons to do so.

I dont want borders to be closed to prevent terrorist attacks, they will happen one way or another. I want borders closed to prevent islam become majority in eu.

Its their war they should fix that in their own land. Stay there and fight. If they cant, then ask for help. Have they?

[cosmicway 1,323]

It's a civil war situation, but those who started it are from outside.

The Greek civil war of 1946-49 has a few similarities and the Greek government of the time handled it in this way:

First there were the military operations in the mountains, where the communists were eventually defeated.

For internal security and to stop the flow of guerilla recruits from the towns to the mountains, they created concentration camps in desert islands (Makronisos and some others).
Those who were taken there were the following types of individuals, starting from the labelled most dangerous to the less dangerous:

- Communist guerillas of Jugoslav nationality captured in the mountains (Macedonian autonomists).
- Greek communist guerillas captured in the mountains.
- Known communists who were involved in the communist coup d' etat of 1944 but were not guerillas.

- Other known communists.
- Strong sympathizers detected by the police / military police.
- Weak sympathizers detected.

The last category were not prisoners. They were called in for so called "army duty" but they served it in the desert islands.
After the end of the civil war in 1949 things became quiet and progressively they were all released, except those against whom criminal proceedings were due.

It was a Greek Guantanamo no doubt, but so were the corresponding communist detention camps behind the iron curtain where people abducted were taken.

The operations were effective. Because though the communist party eventually decided not to use violence anymore (in 1958), from 1950 to that time they could do nothing much really.

The same has to happen now. If not then the governments of Europe are sleeping.
The question seems to be should race, religion, ethnicity become criteria for suspicion - leading to arrest or expulsion, or not ?
ISIS likes that.
Also the various right wing extremists. Now is the time to have a go against my business rivals, the typical right wing extremist thinks. We 've seen that happening in Greece ad nauseam those years. President Truman in America made a speech against phoney anticommunism but the effect was minimal.
At the same time race-religion-ethnicity are criteria. How many sympathizers of European decent does ISIS have ? Are there perhaps some RAF-ETA-Red brigade domestic terrorists allied with ISIS ? Even that seems unlikely. They are all Magrebians, Syrians, Iraqis and some others who have converted to Islam.
i don't know how effective allied operations in the middle East will prove to be, but in view of the above, things are very critical and dangerous.

[-Kaplan- 410]

I'm not sure, but isn't Belgium the country in Europe with the most jihadists per capita?

Just wondering if that was true.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I don't know if these are fake pictures but if they are real, it's a huge problem to separate the good refugees who are escaping suffering from the ones who've come with violent intentions.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT36CDaW4AIh-I4.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTwi8pcWsAEMHpl.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTwtB5OWsAEi6N-.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTw1GUBWIAAuLh6.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTyy0VqW4AQmOs5.jpg:large

[Last Sicarius 610]

Match Germany-Holland just was called off because they had found a bag on stadium and according to local news, is area of stadium police had found ambulance full of explosive materials...

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

Match Germany-Holland just was called off because they had found a bag on stadium and according to local news, is area of stadium police had found ambulance full of explosive materials...

Whole Europe Under Threat...

Great...

[Amblève. 4,995]

I don't know if these are fake pictures but if they are real, it's a huge problem to separate the good refugees who are escaping suffering from the ones who've come with violent intentions.

Don't know if my word means anything but trust me, a lot of those are badly photoshopped. This one's probably the most well-known fake.

About 95% of all those refugee/ISIS figher pics are fakes as far as I can tell.

[ZanSnake 1,211]

Explosives alert turned out false.

France bombs IS for third night in a row

[BlueStorm1003 539]

Apparently belgium is greatly increasing security after the cancelled match. Supposedly ISIS has announced these attack will repeat themselves in multiple other countries as well.

In short, everything is going to hell