Lewis Baker

[Madmax 9,219]

Point is, be grateful for the youth involvement yesterday and in this season in general because it has already exceeded expectations. There's just no pleasing some people...

Or conversely, it's no wonder that some people will always be extremely easily pleased because the sum total of their expectations amounts to 500 mins between 5 players.

[stroey 2,525]

And they did. This season alone, Jose has given debuts to all of Solanke, Baker himself and yesterday Christensen and Brown was on the bench for the first time yesterday as well. That is more than any previous manager has done in a single season and beyond any of our dreams even 3 months ago.

About yesterday, the starting XI needs a certain balance. You can't put out your U21 team out because they'd get battered. Jose actually went one better than what I had expected and started Christensen who I thought would be on the bench. He could of course had started Baker instead of Christensen and played Ake at LB, but obviously Jose thinks the young Dane is more ready. Unfortunately, the game didn't pan out in a way where we could bring on more youth players and still ensure going through to the next round.

Point is, be grateful for the youth involvement yesterday and in this season in general because it has already exceeded expectations. There's just no pleasing some people...

Agreed, if I'm not wrong, Ake has already played more minutes than last season.

Solanke and Christensen already had their debutes, Izzy traveled to OT and was on the bench last night.

Don't forget Zouma, he's also still very young.

Baker his time will come, I think Mou planned to give him minutes against Bolton and Shrewsbury if we could go up 2-0/3-0 but in both matches this didn't happen. Against Bolton yes, but then we suddenly conceded the 2-1 when he was about to make his debut.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Or conversely, it's no wonder that some people will always be extremely easily pleased because the sum total of their expectations amounts to 500 mins between 5 players.

Well, what exactly do you base your expectations on? What is the frame of reference? Past seasons? This season has already exceeded any of the past few seasons, bar maybe 2012-13, in terms of time for youth players and we're still in October. Other title contenders? How many youth players have city give debuts to this season? We've give for 3 while a 4th was on the bench for the first time for us yesterday.

I really don't see any realistic expectations of youth development that we have fallen short of in any way this season.

[Madmax 9,219]

Well, what exactly do you base your expectations on? What is the frame of reference? Past seasons? This season has already exceeded any of the past few seasons, bar maybe 2012-13, in terms of time for youth players and we're still in October. Other title contenders? How many youth players have city give debuts to this season? We've give for 3 while a 4th was on the bench for the first time for us yesterday.

I really don't see any realistic expectations of youth development that we have fallen short of in any way this season.

I was naive enough to base them on the manager's words, so that is the frame of reference. I couldn't care less about City or our past seasons and you'll find I haven't uttered one word about either of those situations. You can look at it as it still just being October, but the biggest chance to walk the talk has already been passed upon. I'll give him credit for Ake but not £12m signing Zouma or Christensen, whose inclusion was necessary to field a back 4 without performing gymnastics like playing a 34 y.o twice in 48 hours.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I was naive enough to base them on the manager's words, so that is the frame of reference. I couldn't care less about City or our past seasons and you'll find I haven't uttered one word about either of those situations. You can look at it as it still just being October, but the biggest chance to walk the talk has already been passed upon. I'll give him credit for Ake but not £12m signing Zouma or Christensen, whose inclusion was necessary to field a back 4 without performing gymnastics like playing a 34 y.o twice in 48 hours.

You know as well as I do that you can't challenge for titles while giving considerably more time for youth players than we already have. Very harsh not to give Jose credit for Christensen. JT is more than capable of playing and we had a 36 (or is he 37 now?) play 2 matches in 3 days up front. It was clearly to give Christensen a chance. Plus, you're forgetting that only last week Solanke was give his debut and became the youngest ever player to play for us in the CL when we didn't really need him to come on. Then there is the debut for Baker himself last month.

[Madmax 9,219]

You know as well as I do that you can't challenge for titles while giving considerably more time for youth players than we already have. Very harsh not to give Jose credit for Christensen. JT is more than capable of playing and we had a 36 (or is he 37 now?) play 2 matches in 3 days up front. It was clearly to give Christensen a chance. Plus, you're forgetting that only last week Solanke was give his debut and became the youngest ever player to play for us in the CL when we didn't really need him to come on. Then there is the debut for Baker himself last month.

I must have missed this Baker debut you talk about. See, 15 minutes when you're winning 4-0 is nice for sentiment and all (I say that genuinely), but when it came down to choosing a team against 4th tier opposition 2 days after OT, he chose to stuck with the knackered pensioner. We all knew Solanke needed that u21 game, he must have learned so much.

We can't win a League Cup 4th round game with more than 2 academy greenhorns featuring at some point? Well we sure romped it with the world champion and the Egyptian Messi. That own goal - boy, that'll show them.

I'm not asking to bring them on in every league game. I'm asking for Mourinho to show some heart and conviction in these guys on a stage he said he would :

Of course, Baker, Brown, Solanke and Boga cannot all be in my squad because I cannot have 30. But these four are going to work with us all season. At 17, I don’t think it’s good for them to go to play in the ­Championship or somewhere. No, at 17 they have to train with us and learn with us – and they will learn a lot – and play in the Under-21s, maybe for us in the Capital One Cup, the FA Cup... now and again.

[iseah100 5,612]

I guess it's okay he hasn't gotten a minute yet, not even against a 2nd and 3rd division side. Oscar was immense past night huh?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I must have missed this Baker debut you talk about. See, 15 minutes when you're winning 4-0 is nice for sentiment and all (I say that genuinely), but when it came down to choosing a team against 4th tier opposition 2 days after OT, he chose to stuck with the knackered pensioner. We all knew Solanke needed that u21 game, he must have learned so much.

We can't win a League Cup 4th round game with more than 2 academy greenhorns featuring at some point? Well we sure romped it with the world champion and the Egyptian Messi. That own goal - boy, that'll show them.

I'm not asking to bring them on in every league game. I'm asking for Mourinho to show some heart and conviction in these guys on a stage he said he would :

Of course Solanke was not going to start as the lone striker! He's 17! He's not anywhere near ready and won't be for at least another 2-3 seasons. The U21 team needed him because we were taking Brown with us so he stayed.

And no, we obviously can't play more than two youth players against Shrewsburry without seriously risking losing the game, especially when you consider that we have some fringe players we need to start in the game as well such as Salah, Mikel and Zouma. Even league 2 is miles above youth level.

Not sure what you are complaining about in those Mourinho quotes since the exact same is happening! They're training regularly with the first team and coming on in occasions in the league cup and FA cup.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I guess it's okay he hasn't gotten a minute yet, not even against a 2nd and 3rd division side. Oscar was immense past night huh?

You're comparing Oscar to Baker?! You're detached from reality! I rest my case...

[iseah100 5,612]

You're comparing Oscar to Baker?! You're detached from reality! I rest my case...

Oscar played decent, instead of playing Baker, Mou chose to play Oscar twice in 48 hours. why not Baker?

What are yoh talking about?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Oscar played decent, instead of playing Baker, Mou chose to play Oscar twice in 48 hours. why not Baker?

What are yoh talking about?

Why? Because Baker is not anywhere near the level Oscar. Not even close. I can't believe I need to even state this. And because we had Salah and Ake we couldn't afford to have Baker as well. I repeat: The squad needs a certain balance even against Shrewsburry and I think Jose got it exactly right as is evident by the very close game.

[iseah100 5,612]

Why? Because Baker is not anywhere near the level Oscar. Not even close. I can't believe I need to even state this. And because we had Salah and Ake we couldn't afford to have Baker as well. I repeat: The squad needs a certain balance even against Shrewsburry and I think Jose got it exactly right as is evident by the very close game.

But twice in 48 hours? You're telling me Baker wouldn't have been able to do what Oscar did? I honestly believe if he played he would have stepped up like Christensen (MOM for me). This game was close cause our backups are shit, might as well give youngsters a chance after we saw they couldn't perform vs a Championship level team (Bolton).

[Madmax 9,219]

Of course Solanke was not going to start as the lone striker! He's 17! He's not anywhere near ready and won't be for at least another 2-3 seasons. The U21 team needed him because we were taking Brown with us so he stayed.

And no, we obviously can't play more than two youth players against Shrewsburry without seriously risking losing the game, especially when you consider that we have some fringe players we need to start in the game as well such as Salah, Mikel and Zouma. Even league 2 is miles above youth level.

Not sure what you are complaining about in those Mourinho quotes since the exact same is happening! They're training regularly with the first team and coming on in occasions in the league cup and FA cup.

u21s needed Solanke more than the first team whose only senior striker is 36 and winded? I can't get my head around that reasoning. He didn't need to start, he didn't need to play as a lone striker. There are ways to set up teams IF you have the intention to try people out and give them chances, which Mourinho didn't (on last night's evidence).

Again, I get that he wanted his fringe players to play, but when they didn't and things went south, he brought on Matic, Willian and Hazard. So Brown and Baker are not good enough to start, they're not good enough to play bit part roles, and they're not good enough to chase the game either. And this is in the league cup against a league two side.

It's fine if you come out and say it'll be a while before we can expect to see these players, just be honest about it. Why make grand statements about developing England internationals when you cowardly turn tail at the first genuine opportunity to put words into action?

That's all I have to say on the matter for now. I'm getting sick of whining about this as I'm sure the ones reading are.

[iseah100 5,612]

u21s needed Solanke more than the first team whose only senior striker is 36 and winded? I can't get my head around that reasoning. He didn't need to start, he didn't need to play as a lone striker. There are ways to set up teams IF you have the intention to try people out and give them chances, which Mourinho didn't (on last night's evidence).

Again, I get that he wanted his fringe players to play, but when they didn't and things went south, he brought on Matic, Willian and Hazard. So Brown and Baker are not good enough to start, they're not good enough to play bit part roles, and they're not good enough to chase the game either. And this is in the league cup against a league two side.

It's fine if you come out and say it'll be a while before we can expect to see these players, just be honest about it. Why make grand statements about developing England internationals when you cowardly turn tail at the first genuine opportunity to put words into action?

That's all I have to say on the matter for now. I'm getting sick of whining about this as I'm sure the ones reading are.

Completely agree. Great post, well said.

I love Mou, I'm one of his biggest supporters and rarely say anything bad about him, but last night really annoyed me.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

This shit comes up every few weeks. It's the same shit over and over again. How about we actually discuss the performances of the youth players who did get a chance instead?

Why didn't Baker get a chance, why didn't Boga get a chance? Ake is getting chances, Christensen got a full 90, Solanke has gotten a chance. Is it that hard to see that it's getting better for the young guys?

We wanted improvements to youth integration and we're getting it so far. Now if some have no patience then you can cry about it as much as you want. This isn't aimed at anyone in specific. I'm just sick of reading the same shit over and over again.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So Brown and Baker are not good enough to start, they're not good enough to play bit part roles, and they're not good enough to chase the game either. And this is in the league cup against a league two side.

Yes. Exactly this.

We setup first and foremost to win. Giving chances to youth players is a secondary objective and I think we managed to combine the two to the best we can yesterday.

And Solanke was not needed on the bench because Brown can play striker as well. No point keeping him from the U21s if he's not going to get any minutes.

Still can't see how what Jose said is different from what has happened.

But twice in 48 hours? You're telling me Baker wouldn't have been able to do what Oscar did? I honestly believe if he played he would have stepped up like Christensen (MOM for me). This game was close cause our backups are shit, might as well give youngsters a chance after we saw they couldn't perform vs a Championship level team (Bolton).

No of course Baker can't do what Oscar does! There is a reason why one is a Brazil international and the other plays for our U21 side!

We only think that the youngsters like Christensen and Ake are MOTM because it's 'cool' to play youth and we see them once or twice a year in unimportant matches. If you think our backups are shit, imagine what you'd say about our youth players if they were regulars with the team!

[Madmax 9,219]

Yes. Exactly this.

We setup first and foremost to win. Giving chances to youth players is a secondary objective and I think we managed to combine the two to the best we can yesterday.

And Solanke was not needed on the bench because Brown can play striker as well. No point keeping him from the U21s if he's not going to get any minutes.

Still can't see how what Jose said is different from what has happened.

Like before, I've said all I want to on the matter. I've covered all arguments and have no intention of going around in circles when we clearly hold radically different view points. All it does is frustrate others, as can be seen in the post above yours, though what is there to stop someone knocking themselves out eulogizing Mourinho in the Ake and Christensen threads, I don't know.

[Tomo 21,733]

Why? Because Baker is not anywhere near the level Oscar. Not even close. I can't believe I need to even state this. And because we had Salah and Ake we couldn't afford to have Baker as well. I repeat: The squad needs a certain balance even against Shrewsburry and I think Jose got it exactly right as is evident by the very close game.

Exactly that, our youth cup winning team of a few years back went to play to Wycombe seniors few months after and got trounced 5-1.

If we played 6 or more of the team teenager's we would have lost, this was Shrewsburys biggest game for years,.it would have been a disaster.

I thought we stroke the balance perfect like you said.