🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Lewis Baker

[iseah100 5,612]

I guess it's okay he hasn't gotten a minute yet, not even against a 2nd and 3rd division side. Oscar was immense past night huh?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I must have missed this Baker debut you talk about. See, 15 minutes when you're winning 4-0 is nice for sentiment and all (I say that genuinely), but when it came down to choosing a team against 4th tier opposition 2 days after OT, he chose to stuck with the knackered pensioner. We all knew Solanke needed that u21 game, he must have learned so much.

We can't win a League Cup 4th round game with more than 2 academy greenhorns featuring at some point? Well we sure romped it with the world champion and the Egyptian Messi. That own goal - boy, that'll show them.

I'm not asking to bring them on in every league game. I'm asking for Mourinho to show some heart and conviction in these guys on a stage he said he would :

Of course Solanke was not going to start as the lone striker! He's 17! He's not anywhere near ready and won't be for at least another 2-3 seasons. The U21 team needed him because we were taking Brown with us so he stayed.

And no, we obviously can't play more than two youth players against Shrewsburry without seriously risking losing the game, especially when you consider that we have some fringe players we need to start in the game as well such as Salah, Mikel and Zouma. Even league 2 is miles above youth level.

Not sure what you are complaining about in those Mourinho quotes since the exact same is happening! They're training regularly with the first team and coming on in occasions in the league cup and FA cup.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I guess it's okay he hasn't gotten a minute yet, not even against a 2nd and 3rd division side. Oscar was immense past night huh?

You're comparing Oscar to Baker?! You're detached from reality! I rest my case...

[iseah100 5,612]

You're comparing Oscar to Baker?! You're detached from reality! I rest my case...

Oscar played decent, instead of playing Baker, Mou chose to play Oscar twice in 48 hours. why not Baker?

What are yoh talking about?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Oscar played decent, instead of playing Baker, Mou chose to play Oscar twice in 48 hours. why not Baker?

What are yoh talking about?

Why? Because Baker is not anywhere near the level Oscar. Not even close. I can't believe I need to even state this. And because we had Salah and Ake we couldn't afford to have Baker as well. I repeat: The squad needs a certain balance even against Shrewsburry and I think Jose got it exactly right as is evident by the very close game.

[iseah100 5,612]

Why? Because Baker is not anywhere near the level Oscar. Not even close. I can't believe I need to even state this. And because we had Salah and Ake we couldn't afford to have Baker as well. I repeat: The squad needs a certain balance even against Shrewsburry and I think Jose got it exactly right as is evident by the very close game.

But twice in 48 hours? You're telling me Baker wouldn't have been able to do what Oscar did? I honestly believe if he played he would have stepped up like Christensen (MOM for me). This game was close cause our backups are shit, might as well give youngsters a chance after we saw they couldn't perform vs a Championship level team (Bolton).

[Madmax 9,219]

Of course Solanke was not going to start as the lone striker! He's 17! He's not anywhere near ready and won't be for at least another 2-3 seasons. The U21 team needed him because we were taking Brown with us so he stayed.

And no, we obviously can't play more than two youth players against Shrewsburry without seriously risking losing the game, especially when you consider that we have some fringe players we need to start in the game as well such as Salah, Mikel and Zouma. Even league 2 is miles above youth level.

Not sure what you are complaining about in those Mourinho quotes since the exact same is happening! They're training regularly with the first team and coming on in occasions in the league cup and FA cup.

u21s needed Solanke more than the first team whose only senior striker is 36 and winded? I can't get my head around that reasoning. He didn't need to start, he didn't need to play as a lone striker. There are ways to set up teams IF you have the intention to try people out and give them chances, which Mourinho didn't (on last night's evidence).

Again, I get that he wanted his fringe players to play, but when they didn't and things went south, he brought on Matic, Willian and Hazard. So Brown and Baker are not good enough to start, they're not good enough to play bit part roles, and they're not good enough to chase the game either. And this is in the league cup against a league two side.

It's fine if you come out and say it'll be a while before we can expect to see these players, just be honest about it. Why make grand statements about developing England internationals when you cowardly turn tail at the first genuine opportunity to put words into action?

That's all I have to say on the matter for now. I'm getting sick of whining about this as I'm sure the ones reading are.

[iseah100 5,612]

u21s needed Solanke more than the first team whose only senior striker is 36 and winded? I can't get my head around that reasoning. He didn't need to start, he didn't need to play as a lone striker. There are ways to set up teams IF you have the intention to try people out and give them chances, which Mourinho didn't (on last night's evidence).

Again, I get that he wanted his fringe players to play, but when they didn't and things went south, he brought on Matic, Willian and Hazard. So Brown and Baker are not good enough to start, they're not good enough to play bit part roles, and they're not good enough to chase the game either. And this is in the league cup against a league two side.

It's fine if you come out and say it'll be a while before we can expect to see these players, just be honest about it. Why make grand statements about developing England internationals when you cowardly turn tail at the first genuine opportunity to put words into action?

That's all I have to say on the matter for now. I'm getting sick of whining about this as I'm sure the ones reading are.

Completely agree. Great post, well said.

I love Mou, I'm one of his biggest supporters and rarely say anything bad about him, but last night really annoyed me.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

This shit comes up every few weeks. It's the same shit over and over again. How about we actually discuss the performances of the youth players who did get a chance instead?

Why didn't Baker get a chance, why didn't Boga get a chance? Ake is getting chances, Christensen got a full 90, Solanke has gotten a chance. Is it that hard to see that it's getting better for the young guys?

We wanted improvements to youth integration and we're getting it so far. Now if some have no patience then you can cry about it as much as you want. This isn't aimed at anyone in specific. I'm just sick of reading the same shit over and over again.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So Brown and Baker are not good enough to start, they're not good enough to play bit part roles, and they're not good enough to chase the game either. And this is in the league cup against a league two side.

Yes. Exactly this.

We setup first and foremost to win. Giving chances to youth players is a secondary objective and I think we managed to combine the two to the best we can yesterday.

And Solanke was not needed on the bench because Brown can play striker as well. No point keeping him from the U21s if he's not going to get any minutes.

Still can't see how what Jose said is different from what has happened.

But twice in 48 hours? You're telling me Baker wouldn't have been able to do what Oscar did? I honestly believe if he played he would have stepped up like Christensen (MOM for me). This game was close cause our backups are shit, might as well give youngsters a chance after we saw they couldn't perform vs a Championship level team (Bolton).

No of course Baker can't do what Oscar does! There is a reason why one is a Brazil international and the other plays for our U21 side!

We only think that the youngsters like Christensen and Ake are MOTM because it's 'cool' to play youth and we see them once or twice a year in unimportant matches. If you think our backups are shit, imagine what you'd say about our youth players if they were regulars with the team!

[Madmax 9,219]

Yes. Exactly this.

We setup first and foremost to win. Giving chances to youth players is a secondary objective and I think we managed to combine the two to the best we can yesterday.

And Solanke was not needed on the bench because Brown can play striker as well. No point keeping him from the U21s if he's not going to get any minutes.

Still can't see how what Jose said is different from what has happened.

Like before, I've said all I want to on the matter. I've covered all arguments and have no intention of going around in circles when we clearly hold radically different view points. All it does is frustrate others, as can be seen in the post above yours, though what is there to stop someone knocking themselves out eulogizing Mourinho in the Ake and Christensen threads, I don't know.

[Tomo 21,751]

Why? Because Baker is not anywhere near the level Oscar. Not even close. I can't believe I need to even state this. And because we had Salah and Ake we couldn't afford to have Baker as well. I repeat: The squad needs a certain balance even against Shrewsburry and I think Jose got it exactly right as is evident by the very close game.

Exactly that, our youth cup winning team of a few years back went to play to Wycombe seniors few months after and got trounced 5-1.

If we played 6 or more of the team teenager's we would have lost, this was Shrewsburys biggest game for years,.it would have been a disaster.

I thought we stroke the balance perfect like you said.

[Stats 7,142]

Exactly that, our youth cup winning team of a few years back went to play to Wycombe seniors few months after and got trounced 5-1.

If we played 6 or more of the team teenager's we would have lost, this was Shrewsburys biggest game for years,.it would have been a disaster.

I thought we stroke the balance perfect like you said.

The thing is with Baker is he has been excelling in our youth teams for a while now. Was named our young player of the year last season and was simply fantastic, recording around 18 goals. Early next year he will be 20 with probably only one appearance for the first team. Baker has done tremendously well and deserves a chance more than most imo. When will he be trusted to play? At the age of 23+? I was just reading the chelsea youth twitter page and the writer seems to definitely be annoyed about the situation. Baker has met every objective asked of him but for him to hardly have a look in disappointing. Have a look at the comments. Not just you but members in general.

This is what he also said in another forum. Same write of chelsea youth:

"I know it was pre-season and therefore much harder to read into these things but this squad beat Wycombe 5-0; Wycombe were much closer in their preparations to their start of season readiness and have since looked like promotion contenders of a similar standard to Shrewsbury.

Schwarzer (Beeney), Kane (Zouma), Ake (Ivanovic), Chalobah (Terry), Christensen (Dasilva), Romeu (Houghton), Swift (Matic), Baker (Boga), Van Ginkel (Salah), Bamford (Brown), Piazon (Solanke)

Nobody's expecting a complete U21 team but if Baker can't get a look after passing every test asked of him to date, when can he? Boga was told an hour before the first team left that he wouldn't be travelling as initially planned, that sort of **** sucks the life out of a player. Chalobah's another who's completely fed up with the way things have gone, don't be surprised if he pushes for a permanent departure next summer."

[killer1257 3,282]

Nobody's expecting a complete U21 team but if Baker can't get a look after passing every test asked of him to date, when can he? Boga was told an hour before the first team left that he wouldn't be travelling as initially planned, that sort of **** sucks the life out of a player. Chalobah's another who's completely fed up with the way things have gone, don't be surprised if he pushes for a permanent departure next summer."

Where did you get that information about Boga?

[Stats 7,142]

Where did you get that information about Boga?

Posted that in one football forum. Can't remember the exact place but I copied and pasted that and he is one of the most reliable youth sources for us.

[Tomo 21,751]

The thing is with Baker is he has been excelling in our youth teams for a while now. Was named our young player of the year last season and was simply fantastic, recording around 18 goals. Early next year he will be 20 with probably only one appearance for the first team. Baker has done tremendously well and deserves a chance more than most imo. When will he be trusted to play? At the age of 23+? I was just reading the chelsea youth twitter page and the writer seems to definitely be annoyed about the situation. Baker has met every objective asked of him but for him to hardly have a look in disappointing. Have a look at the comments. Not just you but members in general.

This is what he also said in another forum. Same write of chelsea youth:

"I know it was pre-season and therefore much harder to read into these things but this squad beat Wycombe 5-0; Wycombe were much closer in their preparations to their start of season readiness and have since looked like promotion contenders of a similar standard to Shrewsbury.

Schwarzer (Beeney), Kane (Zouma), Ake (Ivanovic), Chalobah (Terry), Christensen (Dasilva), Romeu (Houghton), Swift (Matic), Baker (Boga), Van Ginkel (Salah), Bamford (Brown), Piazon (Solanke)

Nobody's expecting a complete U21 team but if Baker can't get a look after passing every test asked of him to date, when can he? Boga was told an hour before the first team left that he wouldn't be travelling as initially planned, that sort of **** sucks the life out of a player. Chalobah's another who's completely fed up with the way things have gone, don't be surprised if he pushes for a permanent departure next summer."

You mention Chalobah, he is struggling to get a look in at a dreadful Burnley team, if he can't break past some of the dross in that squad, how on earth can we justify including him in our squad next season?

If players are good enough they get there, when Terry was young we accepted a bid from Huddersfield for him did he give up? no he carried on fighting, did he sulk and demand a move when we signed Gallas? no he kept on fighting. Youth players have to be extremely patient, show fight and be good enough of course.

Despite our underwhelming record of getting youth in the first team we still attract the best home grown talent and young players from abroad keep putting pen on paper, they know what they are signing up for.

[Amblève. 4,995]

You mention Chalobah, he is struggling to get a look in at a dreadful Burnley team, if he can't break past some of the dross in that squad, how on earth can we justify including him in our squad next season?

If players are good enough they get there, when Terry was young we accepted a bid from Huddersfield for him did he give up? no he carried on fighting, did he sulk and demand a move when we signed Gallas? no he kept on fighting. Youth players have to be extremely patient, show fight and be good enough of course.

Despite our underwhelming record of getting youth in the first team we still attract the best home grown talent and young players from abroad keep putting pen on paper, they know what they are signing up for.

You're being unfair in putting all the blame on the players by saying "if they're good enough...". It's the clubs' job to put their youth players in the best possible situation to succeed.

As we've seen with McEachran, things go south if your club doesn't know how to handle you. Or would you claim that not being used by AVB and being sent to a Swansea side that already had their midfield set was McEachran's fault?

What about Kalas doing everything possible to make himself known during his loan spells, and then never being used in the whole season (I get that he had an injury at the start of the season but come on)? Or Chalobah playing a great season for Watford and then against his wish being sent to Boro instead of Watford?

Obviously, hard work and patience are as important as talent but so are the club's decisions.

[Tomo 21,751]

You're being unfair in putting all the blame on the players by saying "if they're good enough...". It's the clubs' job to put their youth players in the best possible situation to succeed.

As we've seen with McEachran, things go south if your club doesn't know how to handle you. Or would you claim that not being used by AVB and being sent to a Swansea side that already had their midfield set was McEachran's fault?

What about Kalas doing everything possible to make himself known during his loan spells, and then never being used in the whole season (I get that he had an injury at the start of the season but come on)? Or Chalobah playing a great season for Watford and then against his wish being sent to Boro instead of Watford?

Obviously, hard work and patience are as important as talent but so are the club's decisions.

In some aspects the club can do more but ultimately when it comes down to it, the players are mainly in control of there own destiny.

Out off all the academy players we have let go, the closest to one coming back to haunt us is Jack Cork. Look at Pogba, if we do let a genuine world class player from our academy slip through our fingers, some club in Europe at a similar level to us will quickly show us what were missing out on.

Let's put it this way, Conor Clifford isn't a Southend squad player as opposed to Chelsea and Ireland captain because we failed to give him that extra bit of care and attention.

[Amblève. 4,995]

In some aspects the club can do more but ultimately when it comes down to it, the players are mainly in control of there own destiny.

Out off all the academy players we have let go, the closest to one coming back to haunt us is Jack Cork. Look at Pogba, if we do let a genuine world class player from our academy slip through our fingers, some club in Europe at a similar level to us will quickly show us what were missing out on.

Let's put it this way, Conor Clifford isn't a Southend squad player as opposed to Chelsea and Ireland captain because we failed to give him that extra bit of care and attention.

Pogba is the perfect example for what I was saying. Despite playing brilliantly for all United youth teams not only did SAF refuse to use him in the the first team, United also didn't let Pogba go out on loan. Talk about putting a player in a situation to succeed...

The thing is, why would a top club go after someone like, for example, Chalobah next season if he's shit at Burnley all season long after being not good at Boro previously? Don't you think that the situation would be a different one if he had been a free agent after his loan spell at Watford? Again, it hugely comes down to what the club does to your development.

As some already pointed out, Baker has done everything asked from him, he was pulled up to the big club instead of letting him go out on loan. And yet, he can't be trusted to play vs a lower-tier club.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

The way people on here calmly dismiss youth players before they've even gotten a chance never fails to amuse me. He's scored 32 goals in his last 2 seasons but apparently that's not good enough to start against a 4th division team.

Chalobah was always overrated so I don't get the comparisons.