John Mikel Obi, the keystone

[Sheva. 5,373]

Was going to ignore the post but just to let you know, you still didn't point out where i said 'i care what fans think'. I was pointing out there is a reason why they say he's awful and only some Chelsea fans say he's great, tinted glasses - OFF please.

You were citing other fans to support your point, so you obviously care about what they have to say, no?

[Kojo 4,676]

You were citing other fans to support your point, so you obviously care about what they have to say, no?

That's not caring, that's just pointing something out what I've noticed. If i cared i would be crying because damn they hate Chelsea and Mikel. But they do have a point, Mikel is shit and theirs a reason why no one else rates him, that is my point. If anyone's ever wondered that anyway, as where David Luiz I've seen many say he will be class in some time.

[Amblève. 4,995]

But yeah go on go make another giant post full of bull shit.

Oh, the irony...

[SeB 1,281]

And what is your view exactly?, right down about 2000 words every post about bull shit?.

Your scouting isn't even that accurate either, you said Gary Cahill is below average and would never make it in our team, but guess what. And if i can remember correctly you also slated David Wheater, who is actually a solid defender, he was awesome against us when we beat them 3-0, we couldn't score for ages because of him.

Go on thinking your Graham Carr though and then insulting me about my opinion on Mikel, laughable. I love how you went on about it's Hazards and Mata's fault in the Atletico game, funny that who is the defensive midfielder there?.

The defence was isolated from the midfield, it was a fucking joke, Falcao is the best striker in the world for me, you cannot give him that much space or he will punish you, he had acres of space, especially on his 2nd goal. No one could close him down because Mikel was no where to be seen, that's why we lost by a huge number, and Falcao should've scored 5 at least. It's a joke, positioning is awful, against Wigan last season Bertrand had to take the gamble of closing Diame down because Mikel was no where to be seen he was all the way up the field. He's way too slow, last season also against Valencia home it was a joke, midfield was running riots and he couldn't keep up with anyone, that Canales was having a field day with him.

And not to mention pre season that MLS Team's 2nd goal, lmao where was Mikel there marking the man on the edge of the box?, this is against MLS players too. He doesn't have an aggresive bone in his body also, but what ever don't respect my argument just try and make fun of it, see who is laughing in the end.

First of all I don't pretend to be a scout, I just give my opinion.

What I said on Cahill is that he's a decent defender, commited and strong in 1vs1 challenges but that tactically he was poor (covering his full back) and has a poor distribution. I don't know what's wrong in there.

I never said he won't make it there either, when he came he was a 3rd choice CB

You really seem to have reading or understanding issues as well, I said that I did feel Wheater stronger than Cahill in his man on man challenges when he came to Bolton in January 2011. If that's slating, well, yes, if you want

On Atletico's 2nd goal, no mention about Luiz trying an interception and defending front to his own goal? And Cole's ballet moves to "prevent" a shot? No, that's Mikel's fault, a players is bombing in his back and he doesn't see him coming (as usual, he's used to that) and then the defense is a strainer and nobody gives a fuck ?

I don't know who the fuck is Graham Carr by the way.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

the role he is given allows zero creativity

Thank you! If only half the fans understood that we wouldn't even be having these discussions. The problem is our fans want a DM that plays accurate 50 yards pass every time he's on the ball and score 10 goals a season. Keeping the ball is very underrated among fans.

But yeah go on go make another giant post full of bull shit.

Sloth, you're mostly a decent poster but sometimes you make absolutely no sense. How is his post 'bullshit' when it got 9 likes in about 12 hours while your post got only one? Are you saying that everyone talks bullshit except you?

[Kojo 4,676]

Sloth, you're mostly a decent poster but sometimes you make absolutely no sense. How is his post 'bullshit' when it got 9 likes in about 12 hours while your post got only one? Are you saying that everyone talks bullshit except you?

That post is bull shit, because likes mean nothing, plus a lot of people disagree with me on my opinion on Mikel because they think i'm just a controversial bastard and probably some murderer in real life, nothing but a bunch of haters who do nothing but stalk me on this forum.

[SeB 1,281]

Everyone's the right to have his own opinion (regardless if that's based on facts or not, this is credibility) but you should wonder why he's been a starter for every manager since 2008.

And please don't reply "we haven't anyone else to put there". In such a key part of the field, if Mikel wasn't good enough he'd have been replaced for ages.

[Kojo 4,676]

Everyone's the right to have his own opinion (regardless if that's based on facts or not, this is credibility) but you should wonder why he's been a starter for every manager since 2008.

And please don't reply "we haven't anyone else to put there". In such a key part of the field, if Mikel wasn't good enough he'd have been replaced for ages.

Salomon Kalou?... constantly played for years and was never good enough. Because we don't have long term managers we always have different ideas when they come into the squad, and sometimes they don't get the time to get rid of players and sign new players or see if they can assess them the next season.

Mikel is a poor player, all you're doing is making up poor excuses there, it's like Andy Carroll you're just going to tell me that he's good because he works hard?, not enough for me. You need quality, Mikel lacks it, i haven't just been jumping on his back recently either, I've been saying this last season even when he was on form, check my 'new season' thread, i also said Lampard cannot play in double pivot next season, everyone who replied to that disagreed, and look now.

Not saying I'm right, but i do think Mikel lacks the quality to be our defensive midfielder, Falcao had way too much space the defense where relying on there 5th man don't even dare say Mikel played no part in it. Because never in my life have i seen a team give a world class striker that much space, usually they are always heavily man marked and watched all the time, the quality to still score goals however is what makes them world class with all the pressure and the other team trying to mark them out of the game.

It reminded me of the 5-3 to Arsenal last season, every time they went forward they looked really close to scoring, not good enough. Mikel has done this 9/10 times in his Chelsea career I'm not joking, but we make up these excuses all the time, i dread it when we play Arsenal i really do. But if you're right and Mikel turns out good then fair play to you, maybe you had me on this one, but at the moment i really doubt that as he doesn't look like he can improve at all.

[Leif 6,006]

Bosingwa made over 100 appearances for us.

Was he good enough? No.

The number of appearances a player makes for a club, regardless of how many managers have been in, does not reflect the importance that player has/doesn't have to their team.

I'm still open to someone convincing me that Mikel is good enough for us, but I just personally feel he's mediocre at this point.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I'm still open to someone convincing me that Mikel is good enough for us, but I just personally feel he's mediocre at this point.

What about Mikel is mediocre? What requirements of a DM does he not serve? What does he lack to become world-class in your opinion?

[Leif 6,006]

What about Mikel is mediocre? What requirements of a DM does he not serve? What does he lack to become world-class in your opinion?

• He rarely throws in a tackle. He looks more concerned about hurting his opponent than he is concerned about getting the ball back and helping the team.

•He lets players just walk past him (he prefers to intercept occasionally opposed to closing down. That's not the right mindset for an attacking team, even if you're performing a defensive role.) I can't count how many times he's let players literally half a meter away just trod on by with the ball.

•He doesn't have that aggression, determination or leadership which has become essential in playing that role. You need a strong personality/character as well as physique to play that role well; and finally, he also rarely drops back and covers for Luiz or Ivanovic when they roam forward (something which Romeu does excellently.)

Those are just a few points.

[SeB 1,281]

• He rarely throws in a tackle. He looks more concerned about hurting his opponent than he is concerned about getting the ball back and helping the team.

•He lets players just walk past him (he prefers to intercept occasionally opposed to closing down. That's not the right mindset for an attacking team, even if you're performing a defensive role.) I can't count how many times he's let players literally half a meter away just trod on by with the ball.

•He doesn't have that aggression, determination or leadership which has become essential in that role. You need a strong personality/character as well as physique usually to play that role well; and he also rarely drops back and covers for Luiz or Ivanovic when they roam forward (something which Romeu does excellently.)

Those are just a few points.

Point after point:

> He's a 88% tackling ratios. You definitely should search this Alonso interview when he says that tackling is not an ability, that's a last choice when you cannot regain the ball another way. That's pleasant to see players going into dirty tackles, work their socks off... But that's not a Sunday League derby. A defender has to defend standing, not going on the ground.

Just an illustration: I can't stop saying to the kids I coach not to dive into challenges they'll miss because if they don't knock an opponent, they leaves him a boulevard.

There's nothing that pisses me off more than a player diving into a challenge when he can regain the ball standing. Why? Because if you regain the ball, is that common to ask your opponent to give you a hand to lift up?

A famous bald philosopher said one day (err... actually more than just one time) the now famous quote "stay on your feet" !

> Mikel's has strict zonal marking instructions (especially in 4-3-3, in 4-2-3-1 that's less strict), he's not expected to press the opponent nor to close on him if he's 15 yards away.The best tactic to create holes in the opponent's defense is to attract him. Why kids are taught "don't get attracted by the ball" and so on during their formation as future senior defenders ?

He could chase the ball like a 4 year old but not only that would create huge inbalances but athletically speaking that's completely stupid. The 11 players has to share the defensive duties in order to optimize the collective athletic potential of the team.

Kojo said above (lazy to quote the sentence) "who's the defensive midfield there ?". That's not the right view of the thing. Chelsea is a team who keeps the ball (top 5 possession rates) and then has to press to regain it.

Mikel is the player whose role is to pick up the crumbs of the opponent's attacks which are expected to be chopped by the collective pressing ahead of him. The players ahead of him don't press, then Mikel doesn't collects crumbs but the whole bread

Football is a collective sport, the possession is a team thing and so is the ball recovery.

> Sometimes I wonder if I watch the same games as other people. Saying Mikel never dropped between the CBs is like saying Lampard never scored goals with late runs into the box... that's insane. In 4-3-3 that's Mikel's trademark move ever since we switched to 4-2-3-1.

In 4-2-3-1 people should have a look on the organisation before drawing conclusions, that's just not 11 dudes on the pitch. In 4-3-3 the anchor works with the back four and fills the holes made by a CB coming out to challenge the ball or covering his full back.

In 4-2-3-1 his only role is to cover his double pivot partner (you've to imagine them being linked by a rope, they always have to be at the same distance)

> I don't get the "excellently" for Romeu. He's the basics and knows to drop betwenn the CBs but that's not a reflex and he hasn't Mikel's skills there. At a low level you ask your anchor man only to play through the passing angles he's offered when he gets the ball, when he faces his goal, then he has to play to his CB or his full back. This is due to the fact this player hasn't the ability to turnover with the ball, in order to keep the ball you ask him to play backwards.

That's what Romeu did most of the time.

Mikel has the outstanding ability to turnover and get rid of players harassing him, thanks to his brilliant ball retention. Then he can face the play and distribute studiously (one more time he's not expected to be creative).

[The Skipper 20,593]

Excellent responses, SeB.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Fantastic response SeB.