Barbara

also a guy (whether that's Ba or Lukaku) who will play a very reduced amount of matches - unless any injury happens - and will mostly come for matches of minor importance, does not weaken our side. It's clear José doesn't agree with many people here that think Lukaku is ready to play for Chelsea - so he knew he'd bench him a lot and probably wouldn't even bench him in many matches. Again, it's preference. I agree with José in this specific matter. Lukaku showed me he has potential, but he's way too raw both emotionally and technically. Thing is people here (some anyway) believe that he's ready or that at his present form he's better than Torres. Also José may have had a few expectations when he talked to Lukaku when they both arrived at the club and he may have changed his mind during pre-season and the few minutes he played in official matches. How many times didn't a player reach the manager's expectations? More often than we would like, so even the promised stay could have been a consequence of José reassessing Lukaku. Or lack of interest on Ba. No one in our club said Ba didn't get anyone interested on him... it's all the press, and I'd rather not take their word as unquestionable. SSN themselves reported two different clubs interested on him and then they said no one was. So I guess their sources are as good as none? Either way, I think I'd rather have Ba rotting in our bench as you put it, rather than a 20yo that has tons to develop before he can be a player we can rely on. Torres isn't a lot of things, but he is experienced and doesn't have problems with nerves and pressure... and if I'm honest with myself, I don't see a big gap - if any - between them technically. Lukaku is going to be better than current-Torres, but right now, I guess they're sort of the same, with different issues for different reasons.

Nah, I'm not using mine even though I'm pretty lousy at the moment. Last week I had an extra transfer done and this week I had to make a goalkeeper transfer because Foster is injured and they don't know when he'll come back. I was looking for an excuse to have McGregor. I've found it My defense and attack are okay, even if they don't give me too many points, I won't change them... unless I need to make more money for whatever reason (then I'll sack Metersacker ). It's my midfield that I need to change a couple of pieces, but I'll have to wait two GW because I need to do two transfers and I won't have another -4 - saved from injuries, that is.

@Jim, you and B. look great. But don't be a stranger, Super Jim. Who am I going to talk about Brit music?

Count on me too if you need it

to be honest, my point here was just to say never underestimate a Brazilian football player or our NT... everything else I really have no idea where came from. I don't think there's a competition between Brazil and Belgium - not at Chelsea, nor TC nor the World Cup, I just wanted to stress Oscar starting over Mata and de Bruyne isn't something crazy (the same way is completely normal for Mata start over him, and Kevin over Willian) When Mata is fit maybe Mourinho starts him over Oscar, or maybe Kevin will start over Willian. Who knows? But it isn't crazy - albeit it could be unpopular- if Oscar and now Willian start more matches than Mata and de Bruyne. Bottom line, we're way too good in the AM. Endless possibilities, most of which have me coming undone.

I also voted for the Arsenal killer as @Ollie nicely put and I only didn't go for Osgood because I think a CM wouldn't have hurt (although Mourinho has been so stubborn about Lamps starting every match that it makes me wonder if we got the CM whoever he was he wouldn't play much). I want to our board though for something else (and go a bit off topic, a bit on topic). I saw this list on Twitter and while I was aware of 90% of the guys there, when you think that we loaned 24 players it shows how impressive our squad depth is nowadays. The guys in bold are guys I think could fight for spots in our starting XI, or at least be super subs, the guys underlined are incredible potential. Atsu, Delac, T. Hazard, Courtois, Walker, Kane, Clifford, Wallace, Pappoe, Saville, Lalkovic, Cuevas, Davilla, Pirez, Bamford, Perica, Van Aanholt, Piazon, Kakuta, Hutchinson, Marin, Lukaku, Moses, Romeu. So you have a complete bench only with super subs or guys fighting for starting positions and a couple more of potential (and I have to admit I don't know some of the players - from our youth - so maybe there are even more real potential players I've missed). Then you look to the squad we do have at Mourinho disposal (ordered by shirt #). In bold players I rate 8 or higher, underlined crazy good squad players: Petr Cech; Branislav Ivanovic; Ashley Cole; David Luiz; Michael Essien; Ramires; Frank Lampard; Fernando Torres; Juan Mata; Oscar; John Obi Mikel; André Schürrle, Kevin de Bruyne; Marco van Ginkel; Eden Hazard; Demba Ba; Willian; Mark Schwarzer; Gary Cahill; John Terry; César Azpilicueta; Samuel Eto'o; Tomas Kalas; Ryan Bertrand; Henrique Hilario; Jamal Blackman (and in addition to Josh McEachran and Nathaniel Chalobah who are great potentials). You guys may disagree how I rate a few of those players, but the point is we have 24 guys loaned out, 28 guys in our squad - 16 of which who could start any match for us and it wouldn't be crazy and if we had a Chelsea B (like Barça and RM have for example) I wonder where that team would play - Championship? Would it even fight against the likes of Reading and QPR to be promoted? I think depending on the combo we have of them, plus a few very good kids that stayed with our youth, I think we might. Some of the guys we loaned out are already good (not only potential), some of the guys we have on our bench the same (some of the guys that don't even make our bench every match are really close to moving from potential to talent). And I didn't even cover our U-21 team where we also have good players. How can I criticize the board and the managers that brought those players to Stamford Bridge? Personally I just can't. Of course we've had big failures throughout the years, gambled with players that were disappointing and bet on established players that faded on our side - but that's the thing in the transfer market, a player may not suit a style, a league or even have problems in a certain club which makes a transfer completely unpredictable - although some transfers are hard to turn out disappointing (Hazard, Mata, Oscar, etc). So the balance is way positive in my opinion. PS.: I underlined Torres against my better judgment and in hopes he'll be a good sub coming from the bench. I could have done the same with Mikel, but then I'd be too close to delusional, so among two guys I rate as average, I chose to give one the chance to surprise me. Also Lampard is still amazing solid in my opinion - as long as he doesn't play twice a week - which is why he's in bold and underlined.

I think his finishing is hit or miss - and my lord, when he misses, he misses it weeeeeeeeelllllllllll by far

nope, the pronunciation is the same in English (except that it ends with an 'n' and consequently it doesn't have the 'm' sound in the end).

amazing link up, good vision, his first touch is one of the best (in strikers) I've seen and his finish is still quite good - based on what I've watched from Russian League last season. I don't think he'll be a 'matador' for us, but we have so many guys with good finishing that will benefit from his linkup and he himself will also have chances to finish and hopefully score. As I said - in agreement to Muzchap - strikers don't have the easiest time to score in our defenses, so while he won't be the guy with a lot of pace we have that on Hazard, Willian, Kevin, André and they can run and do things similar to our first goal against Bayern. It's somewhat a relief to have someone that is still good. Maybe even Torres will benefit a bit from it. One can hope Last comment: that sort of talent and class one is born with, can't develop with years - only improve, but it has to be there in the first place and it never goes away. thankfully

I keep repeating it otherwise I would be cursing him, the same way I cursed Oscar and curse Torres every match. as for the bold part: I guess you're in the wrong forum. This is about Chelsea FC, not Belgium FC... so maybe in such forum you would like a player to rip Chelsea apart and people would agree with you, not much luck here... unless you support Everton, that is. I have no problem talking to other teams fans (one of my fave guys here is a ManUtd fan), as long as they make it clear where they stand. your usage of 'our defense' though is really amusing.

Please someone contact Ron Gourlay because Mourinho is broken and needs fixing, he's delusional! Maybe someone can go there and give some trainings and fix him. Prayer circle for that to happen!

imagine if he misses the sitter Oscar did against one big match in CL or title contender in EPL and we lose or draw because of that? What I don't get is why.the.rush? It seems like he needs to be played otherwise he won't ever become a good player for Chelsea, but he's only 20!!!!!! I've seen many, many boys get those traumatizing experiences at such early age and never recover. If you guys prefer to take a risk, be my guests. I've talked tiredly about his lack of mental maturity before the lousy penalty. I've said it so many times I tired everyone out. The first big problem in his hands, he crumbles. I can't judge him for that, he's only 20 after all, but I judged Mourinho a lot for allowing that to happen. It doesn't make sense to me, mate, we could exchange posts til next season and I wouldn't understand your angle. It's not personal or anything. I just don't get it.

it's so good to read sensible posts in the midst of... well, not sensible ones... But we should be concerned about how he feels now, if it was because of a penalty or not, because you know, Mourinho probably didn't say a word for him, didn't explain the reasons or maybe even let it up to him to choose his future...

as I said earlier, anyone except my mother being benching over Torres is stupid imo, but I guess burning the player is also stupid. If he had a few more episodes like the pathetic penalty miss - and maybe he would have, we can't forget he's young and there's a lot of pressure playing in a club as big as Chelsea, it could do more damage than good. That's my opinion since the beginning. I was just annoyed to see people imply they know better than Mourinho, but I already let it go as well. Also, if he feels like the club didn't appreciate him enough - while he was only a 20yo potential good player - and decides go elsewhere, it's his right and no one can badmouth him for that. Chelsea will replace him the minute it happens, I have no doubt.

isn't exactly that what Mourinho is offering to Lukaku though? To go to a place where he can actually play instead of warming our bench and stop his progress? I'm not sure what's the angle here. If he's benched, Mou is wrong, if he's sent off somewhere so he can play, Mou's wrong, if Mou thinks he's not ready to be our #1 or #2 striker (doesn't matter if for mental or technical reasons) Mou is wrong.. The only way Mou would be right is if he played Romelu ahead of Torres - and maybe even Eto'o. It comes down to preferences then. Each of us will have a different preference. I prefer Eto'o, others prefer Lukaku, others Torres. The same applies to other positions... I guess he did little from the small time he was given and risking him to continue to have as less time would frustrating for him in a WC year... Mourinho won't start him in the middle of fierce competition if he's not ready. And I doubt he was promised that. He was probably promised chances. The chances the club or Mourinho have to give to him now are playing scarcely... is it good for him? Is it enough for him? I don't know. Maybe he'd rather stay. Maybe he'd rather go. Crying over spilled milk is pointless anyway. He's gone, I hope he has a great season, develops further. There will be more pressure on Everton than on WBA, there will be more quality as well. I hope it does him well. If Mourinho made a mistake, time will tell. I just think we'll hardly lose any trophies because of this and I don't think Lukaku would benefit a lot being benched over and over. his progress would stagnate. That's me though, anyone can disagree

no, love, you are not saying that... I guess your point is fair - whereas saying Mourinho is being stupid or coward isn't - but who knows what sort of conversation they had? Who knows if this wasn't agreed with Romelu? After all that happened, things changed, and maybe someone told him: the prospects for you are this X amount of matches because of whatever reason. What if he agreed is better to leave? A boy his age DREAMS of playing the WC - especially one in Brazil, especially on his age. What if he pondered and thought maybe it was better to have chances to improve and play and go to the WC and actually play matches, than just warm our bench? I DOUBT he was promised to be our #1 striker - when we were very loud and clear we wanted to sign a striker - or even that he would be started ahead of Torres because the same sort of statement Mourinho and Lukaku said, so did Mourinho and Torres... Both players said the manager said he was counting on them and if they worked hard they would have their chances... We don't know what happened, we aren't there, so that's why I think it makes no sense for us to assume we know best. I trust Mourinho - not blindly, I've criticized many of his decisions later (allowing a kid who thinks he knows best in a final penalty shootout being one of them). That's not one of them, if it was his decision in the first place. But let's agree we disagree. It bothers me when people think they know everything - but I don't know everything either. So we have a right to think whatever we want. So I (and others) agree with him being loaned, you (and others) disagree and we disagree between ourselves.

that's not even my point actually. The man can make mistake like any other. It's the presumption that we know better that annoys me. I think when he sees potential - real potential - and readiness to act on that potential he works just fine. Name me 5 players that were young under him, that he handled badly and that nowadays are world class or just very good because for him to be bad as many people say youngsters should flourish under others immediately after they left him. In case you can't name those 5, I can name you a few players that people were on him for not dealing well, that were good, talented and whatever, and he let them go and nothing happened with them. And that's at RM only, but I could force my memory to go way back to Inter too. No one says he's right in those case, do they? Still time proved that the players weren't everything people expected them to be. The one reason that makes Mourinho sign so many guys is because of his clinical eye for real talent, not could be. Why do you think he made Eden his untouchable man even before they had one training session? All that said, it doesn't mean he doesn't think Lukaku is the real deal, it just means he's not ready for what Mourinho needs now. I kept saying that before the Super Cup - that he wasn't ready to handle pressure. Well, we saw how well that worked... I could name a few he handled okay and are now very good. you do have a valid point. One that had crossed my mind today many times amidst the many rumors. But I was aiming on people who think they know better than one of the most successful managers in the world. I think he's just betting ON Lukaku rather than against him. How would the boy feel - in the WC year - to be benched 90% of the matches, actually not even making the bench in many of them? I guess that frustration would be bigger than the frustration of Chelsea letting go of him for the second year in a row.

wow... it seems people here knows better about player management than Mourinho who's working on this for a couple of decades and who has just recently done amazingly with Varane - who was younger than Lukaku is right now btw I guess the difference between their bank accounts proves who knows better not to mention the successful work in clubs in different leagues and the many titles, but let's hear to TC specialists instead. not to say he's the one that has been with the guy day in and out since the players came back from vacation. It'd be amusing, if it wasn't ridiculous

isn't there a feud between him and Eto'o? Last thing we need is dressing room feuds...

no, what's the scoop?

Only because I like you and your member id is made of win.

then it's a matter of opinion actually. I think Lukaku is too raw and not nearly ready to deal the pressure. Also he has tons of technique to improve. Let him improve there and then Mourinho just gives the final touches in the gem It's not that I prefer Torres over Lukaku. Short from my mother, I'd prefer anyone else over Torres, but if Lukaku is burned again - just like in the penalty gate - it may harm his progress more than contribute to it. And I think being as raw as he is and how he crumbled emotionally situations like that could be prone to happen. Let's not mess with the kid's head. He's 20, there's plenty of time for him to shine for us.

I'll give you my two cents about what happened. They had two strikers and had to offload one through loan. they put both in the market and waited for the best business. For them it doesn't matter which one of them left because the third striker will be used scarcely and they're trusting on Eto'o and then on Torres, so for them, this guys that will play under 10 matches is a non-factor. The best deal came for Lukaku - which is obvious. Lukaku >>>> Ba. So Lukaku is out. Fair enough with all parts involved, especially Lukaku if you ask me. He'd be frustrated knowing he'd be third best. On a kid his age he needs to play - although I think we would benefit from training with Mourinho too (although I have to give other style of players would benefit from training more than him - for example Kevin)

a summary of deals made today and confirmed by the clubs, if anyone is interested GERMANY Patrick Helmes - Wolfsburg -> Colonia Jeong-Ho Hong - Jeju United -> Augsburg Tranquilo Barnetta - Schalke 04 -> Eintracht Frankfurt Makoto Hasebe - Wolfsburg -> Nuremberg Serdar Tasci - Stuttgart -> Spartak Moscow Aristide Bancé - Augsburg -> Fortuna Düsseldorf Per Ciljan Skjelbred - Hamburg -> Hertha Karim Haggui - Hannover -> Stuttgart SPAIN Lisandro López - Benfica -> Getafe Denis Cheryshev - Real Madrid -> Sevilla Josuha Guilavogui - Saint-Ettienne -> Atlético Madrid FRANCE Mevlut Erdinç - Rennes -> Saint-Étienne Emmanuel Mayuka - Southampton -> Sochaux ENGLAND Morgan Amalfitano - Olympique de Marseille -> West Bromwich Marko Arnautovic - Werder Bremen -> Stoke City Alvaro Vasquez - Getafe -> Swansea Mamadou Sakho - Paris Saint-Germain -> Liverpool Tiago Ilori - Sporting -> Liverpool Victor Moses - Chelsea -> Liverpool Stephen Ireland - Aston Villa -> Stoke City Libor Kozak - Lazio -> Aston Villa Emiliano Viviano - Palermo -> Arsenal Barry Bannan - Aston Villa -> Crystal Palace Stephen Ireland - Aston Villa -> Stoke City Adrian Mariappa - Reading -> Crystal Palace Peter Odemwingie - West Bromwich -> Cardiff Benoit Assou-Ekotto - Tottenham -> QPR ITALY Kaká - Real Madrid -> Milan Luca Marrone - Juventus -> Sassuolo Jaroslav Plasil - Bordeaux -> Catania Andrea Petagna - Milan -> Sampdoria Etri Berisha - Kalmar -> Lazio Joel Obi - Internazionale -> Parma Walter Gargano - Napoli -> Parma Ricardo Centurión - Racing -> Genoa Birki Bjarnason - Pescara -> Sampdoria Javier Iturbe - Porto -> Hellas Verona Douglas Santos - Granada -> Udinese AROUND THE WORLD Sam Hutchinson - Chelsea -> Vitesse Vitinho - Botafogo -> CSKA Moscou Daniel Pranjic - Sporting -> Panathinaikos Lerin Duarte - Heracles -> Ajax Abdul Razak - Manchester City -> Anzhi (some clubs are funny spelled because I got this from ESPN Brasil, too lazy to fix one by one)

It seems Zidane is trying to convince the board not to sell Ozil. Can you imagine if the deal is vetoed and Arsenal don't get him? I'll laugh for days!!!!!!!!