The only place to be

So about half what we apparently miss out on in the CL. Maybe it isn't such a pointless waste of time after all.

Personally I think this trophy is a bit pointless and would rather we continued the momentum with the scheduled game against Southampton rather than some FIFA jolly to Japan. We won the big trophy in May. If we win this trophy, it'll be nice but I honestly don't think the upside is that massive although if someone can point to some financial data that suggests it is then I'll have to concede that point.

There are no guarantees, but I strongly disagree with the rest of your post about him being overrated etc. What I would say is that they are both world class coaches but I simply don't think Klopp would come to England next summer. Guardiola is refreshed and available. Some people are alluding to Klopp being more suited to our club and I'd be interested to know what they're basing that on. I will admit to not having read many profiles on him so if there are people with links to things like that it might help this thread. With regards Guardiola there are a number of profiles and interviews with him, but a good place for people to start might be the new book by Balague about Guardiola. It might dispel a number of myths about him and Barca.

Let's not forget that we lost Romeu in the first 20 minutes which completely fucked our game up, yet the players stepped up and held on. You can't have Oscar and Ramires together in that midfield together - it needs to be Mikel/Romeu and one of them (Mikel's limitations mean it has to be Ramires). Everyone worked hard and Johnson's goal was a freak one which Cech could have arguably done much, much better on. But it built on last week's first half against West Ham and sets us up nicely for the CWC, before returning to English football against Leeds. Could set us up for a nice run into the Christmas period.

Technically it's Leeds, not England.

3 Points much needed. Could have controlled it better at times, but the biggest disappointment was some (not all by any means) singing anti-Rafa songs when we were 3-0 up. Seriously, what the fuck??

Sorry mate, but we were looking at him in 2010 when Carlo was here. We actually scouted him when he was at Liege like a lot of top clubs but we were late to the party (De Visser was particularly keen to get him) because the quoted figure was too high. He was actually 'moved up further in midfield' in his first season at Everton too so this really isn't anything new. But he's always seen himself as a DM and the view at Everton was that he'd eventually move back but that's a little in dispute now.

Wow. Torres stepped up and took the penalty. I've given him stick but he deserves immense credit for doing that. Well done Fernando. Nailed-on penalty too.

Get in. A proper striker's finish by Torres who started the move too. Hopefully that'll stop the fans singing anti-Benitez songs.

Torres just 2 metres off where he should be.

I'm still waiting for Cherno Samba to live up to his billing of the next Shearer.

I'm not saying we can't have a playmaker alongside Fellaini/Mikel. In fact I'd be inclined to stick Oscar in there, and I don't think he's too weak. He's got a certain amount of bite about him and isn't afraid to get stuck in. The wild card in this whole discussion is what happens with David Luiz. I have serious doubts about his ability to play in midfield but it seems like Rafa could try him there.

He would have the opportunity here to build something truly special. Guardiola's hero status is cemented there for life. All he has to do is avoid coaching Real Madrid and he'll be fine. The most glaring point in your post is about the youth. They might have El Shaaraway, but we have Oscar. And Hazard. We also have a youth academy beginning to bear fruits, some of whom play football the right (and by that I mean Barcelona) way. In fact I'd say we have some of the brightest young talents in Europe waiting for someone to take them to the next level. He would be treated completely differently from the likes of AVB. He would have more control over almost every aspect of the club than any manager has had since maybe Hoddle. As for Mourinho, I honestly don't know what people see his 3-5 year plan being. I don't know what they've seen in his past that says to them that the team right now is ready for a Mourinho. Their thinking to me seems to be based entirely on 'it was great when Mourinho was our coach in 2005, let's do that again'. I love the guy but for the life of me I don't see how he is the best choice for our club right now. He's a legend here but that doesn't mean he fits into the club's plans now. Right now the best fit by a country mile is Guardiola and that's based on what the situation that he came into Barcelona was like and what the guy actually wants to do with his footballing career going forward.

Unfortunately, this is exactly my criticism of Mikel. The guy is often a passenger in the team and lacks the ability to impose himself on games. When we're playing well, he gets carried along but when we're struggling he's often one of the first heads to drop. I've brought it up before but the Juventus second goal sums him up to a tee. He loses the ball and gives up. No-one can defend that because for a top-level sportsman in that position, it's indefensible. I'm probably harsh on him because I've been so lucky to see players like Makelele in the flesh gracing Stamford Bridge. He was a one-off but you could just learn so much from watching him - his positional sense was out of this world and he almost redefined that position. Now Mikel is asked to do something a little different and more akin to Busquets at Barca at times, especially when we're in possession, but he simply isn't up to it when we're under pressure. He's also one of the most lackadaisical players I've ever seen. When he's caught out of position (something that happens far too often for my liking) there's usually a distinct lack of hustle to get back. I also question his mentality and attitude with regards his discipline on the pitch. A couple of times he's got into yellow card trouble for arguing the toss with referees. This is a guy who has played about 200 games for the club yet still acts like a petulant kid at times. Also, despite all those games I've never seen a player so viewed with apathy by the supporters. His fans will say 'they don't understand his worth to the team' or some other unutterable bullshit, but these same fans revered Makelele. They've witnessed some of the greatest players ever to grace pitches yet they simply can't judge this one players worth??? Bull and indeed shit.

I kinda agree, but my biggest reservation about any big-name striker coming in is what the new manager will want from that position. It's all very well spending £40 million on someone but six months down the line who knows what we'll want. It's why I'm more inclined to go for the PL proven cheaper guys like Ba and even Bent because they'll still have value in the market 6 months down the line.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with my subjective views - it's about people talking complete bollocks about somewhat objective facts. People who don't seem to know what position Fellaini actually played just two years ago or how well-regarded he was, yet still try and offer an opinion is just utterly pointless to any debate. You can rely on stats and misrepresent them as much as you like, but try watching a bit of football and then maybe you won't say such complete bullshit. The fact that you haven't addressed a single point but have thrown the toys out of the pram is a little much isn't it? In my opinion, we don't need someone who can pass it long from that position. What we need is someone reliable who can get the ball off quickly to one of the creative players and who doesn't give up. That's it. There's a reason why people like De Visser have been high on him for years and it's why we have been linked with him for almost two years now. The truth is that he wasn't mediocre when he was deployed in that position at Everton. He was one of the best players in the league at the age of about 22/23. Now he's been moved further up the pitch partly because Everton lost Cahill and partly because he's just so damned effective there, and people want to rewrite history.

I think that's a gross mischaracterisation of Guardiola and sounds like the type of thing opposing fans used to say about Mourinho. Personally I found Mourinho's footballing philosophy fascinating and exhilarating to watch and I think the same about Guardiola's. To me, it's just the most brilliant yet simple form of football. You dominate possession making the ball do the work which conserves energy whilst tiring the opposition. But when you lose possession, you work extremely hard in the first few seconds when the opponent is in transition which maximises your chances of getting the ball back and also creating chances for yourself. It's beautiful to watch in my opinion. Klopp is also a very promising manager but I think he's unlikely to want to come here based on his recent comments. Roman has identified Guardiola as his guy and we need to hope he gets him because he's the only manager likely to get the time needed to build something here.

I've not been here long but judging by the nominees and the winner from last month, it helps if you write long posts.....doesn't matter if it's complete bollocks or not (in fact it may well help). Some decent posters on here but they seem to not get much recognition or 'likes'.

I like how you've taken stats from seasons when he was being played in an advanced position because that's what Everton required of him. It's like criticising Gareth Bale by using the stats from when he was being played at left-back by Spurs. The problem is that you're simply wrong about a number of things. He wasn't a mediocre DM in the slightest. He was actually one of the best in the league in around 2010 but he suffered an injury that wrecked his season. He wasn't 'miscast' there - it was the fucking position he grew up playing. :D The fact that he's had success as as more attacking midfielder isn't a negative either - it shows his ability to adapt to new things even if he's not particularly keen on it. Just recently he reiterated his desire to move back into the DM position in future and it is there that I think he could have a good future for us. I don't mind arguing the merits of players and their potential worth to Chelsea but it's fucking frustrating having to keep make the same point over and over to people whose knowledge of football seems to extend to Drogba's penalty hitting the back of the net in Munich.

I'm not going to even bother reading past this because it's absolute rubbish. Sorry. When he was at Liege, he was a DM and he was scouted by many, many top teams. Everton getting him was a brilliant coup in that sense. We became interested in him again after he showed some outstanding performances in the DM position at Everton but we went in a different direction with our transfers. To say he was 'mediocre' as a DM is just untrue. I don't know if you didn't watch his games for Everton in that position, are simply misremembering or if you're flat out lying but you're totally incorrect. It's actually laughable how wrong you are about this.

If it's £3.5 million and his wages aren't too bad then it's probably worth a punt. Him and Ba for around £10 million (or one-fifth of a Torres) wouldn't be bad business.

He's an attacking midfielder RIGHT NOW. He's playing there because that's where Everton need him. He sees himself as a DM, when Everton bought him he was a DM and when the club first started looking at him he was a DM. It's getting fairly tiring explaining the same point over and over again. In fact on a forum that's supposed to be full of football supporters, it's somewhat laughable if I'm being honest. The 'massive weaknesses' you alluded to are wrong in my opinion too. I saw little wrong with his defensive positioning when he was playing that DM role. In my opinion, he would replace Mikel in the team because he offers a lot more in terms of passing ability, defensive strength and as I've said before, I like his attitude. I think he has something about his personality that Mikel doesn't. He's stepped up and done a job for Everton this year.

You do realise that Mikel didn't contest the charge don't you? As for the Clattenburg incident, we may never know what exactly was said but we know what could be proven and that's really all that matters. You have absolutely no evidence to suggest Clattenburg did anything wrong. What Mikel did, regardless of the extenuating circumstances, was wrong. You can't go and confront refs in their rooms after matches. It's one of the most important things in the game in my opinion and any player doing so should be punished heavily. Three games was light. As for the options you mentioned, you left out the idea that Ramires misunderstood something Clattenburg said to Mikel.

Some people like to cling on to things like this.