The only place to be

Am I the only one who can't see anything 'crazy' about what he's said there? He's basically stated that there's no chance of him signing in this window and that the player's status would be assessed by us in the summer.

I did have a problem with Ake not being used and Kalas's injury came at the wrong time. Now they both look like they're part of the squad and that gives us decent cover. I get that you liked Bertrand (or maybe the idea of him). You put him in your predicted team each week and each week he'd be overlooked. He wasn't being used in the team so now he's gone somewhere we he can get regular first-team football. That's great for him and we've lost a third-choice left-back who wasn't playing and replaced him with Ake. That's good for young Nathan too. Honestly I can't be bothered talking about this further because it simply doesn't warrant it.

Oh, so Jose was being fair to Ryan since Ryan understood that he was only ever a squad player who would appear if 3 other players got injured? Honestly the type of player you're describing doesn't sound like a specialist left-back but more like a John O'Shea who can fill in a multitude of positions if required. I actually think Luiz can fill that role for us as an emergency left or right-back. Perfect. Can play full-back in a pinch plus CB and in midfield. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Dutch John O'Shea. Nathan O'Ake.

But what happens if a plane falls on Oscar, Mata and Willian? Bad move by the club. Ruined everything. Wish him the best of luck and he'll probably end up at a bigger club before his 25th but sometimes these things just don't work out. We've sold a player we don't really need and signed one we do. Doubt many tears will be shed over this.

Because this loan move puts him in the shop window. Let's not forget that the guy has barely played in the last 7 months, which for a professional footballer is an eternity. Bertrand has less minutes this season than Mark Schwarzer. There's also the issue of selling players requiring a buyer. One team he was linked to was Liverpool - you want to help them out? That's fine, but is it fair to Bertrand himself to keep him around when there's little chance of him playing? People bring up rubbish about Mourinho being unfair to him, yet how is this not the fairest thing he can do for someone not in his plans? Yes if Ivanovic, Azpi and Cole get injured then we might be in trouble, but that's the same for lots of clubs. You don't make decisions based on worst-case scenarios. When that stuff does happen on the rare occasion then the best managers adjust, plugging gaps with the likes of Luiz at left-back and Kalas at right-back. Is it perfect? No.

What a load of tosh. Very right-on but completely ignores the reality of football. We're a multi-cultural club and that is to our benefit. It's fantastic going to the Bridge and seeing fans from all over the world congregating to support this club, much like it is on this site. But ultimately we are an English club with strong roots in the community and a very distinctive English flavour to the club. That's why people from around the world are attracted to us in part. It's not something we should be shy of saying and it's certainly not something we should label haphazardly with words like 'xenophobic' when people support the notion of us signing a local lad who supports the club and just happens to have world-class potential. This Rodriguez guy is a good player too, but Shaw is 3 years younger and looking mightily impressive in the Premier League. It isn't neanderthal to want English players of a high calibre at this English club.

From le Saux to Cole to Shaw....it just feels right. Sure this guy is good but don't see is going for this guy over Shaw.

I think this gives Mikel a fresh start in some ways. He won't have to shoulder all of the responsibility of holding in front of the defence because Matic seems more than capable of doing that. I'm excited to see how they play together because they could be a dynamic midfield pairing who can control the ball and get forward too.

The thing is the club did perfectly with him last season and this season he should've been building on it, but he's actually regressed a bit in terms of where he's playing. So far this season has been a waste for him. Maybe he'll learn that football isn't all wine and roses....but I'm pretty sure the Championship play-off final taught him that too.

He looks a bit like Flo...a similar sort of debut off the bench wouldn't be bad.

The club have fucked him royally this season. Waited too long to loan him then sent him to a club who didn't suit him in the slightest and now he's off to a mid-table team managed by Jose's mate after impressing everyone in the league last season. Guy's got all the talent in the world but this year was crucial to his development and we have probably set him back at least 12 months. He might as well start looking for cheap property in Arnhem.

Was a long shot but it's disappointing. Seems to offer exactly what we need for this game but I suppose it's a toss up between Luiz and Mikel now. Apparently it's out of loyalty and nothing to do with him needing to familiarise himself with our system though as some suggested. The similarities between the role he was performing at Benfica and here shouldn't have been too vast, especially when you consider we've played a defender in that position.

That would be the strained relationship that there's been no mention of whatsoever? 2 injuries and we're stretched in attack. 2 injuries and we're stretched in goal. 2 injuries and City are fucked in midfield. Bertrand is third choice right-back. He's played 64 minutes in the league and that was in October. It's a move that makes sense for the player and for the club in terms of increasing the market value of a player who hasn't been considered for the first-team in almost 3 months (injured or not). And Bertrand has played just 64 minutes more than him in the league. If it comes to it we have Luiz who could probably slot in at full-back. I simply don't get the fuss about us loaning him out. He wasn't part of our plans here, there are two players ahead of him in the squad, we've been linked with one of the brightest young prospects in his position and people are worried about Jose's ability to manage a squad.

I'm fine with all that stuff, but straight-up nonsense just bores me. Look, we're talking about the loaning of a player who really wasn't part of our plans in the short, mid or long-term. It increases his value, gives him play time and maybe contributes to us buying a player (Shaw) who would be part of our plans. Yes it leaves us vulnerable if we suffered 2 or 3 injuries in defence, but other squads would struggle if they had similar situations in defence or midfield. This move just makes sense.

Look, we've loaned out a player who appeared in one match for us for just over an hour. He's not a big loss to us in all likelihood, in fact the only person who seems to miss him is you because it means you can't include him in your team predictions anymore. All his leaving does is save one of us the trouble of pointing out to you that he won't play at the weekend. That's literally all he did at this club. Luke Shaw on the other hand would probably be a starter for us....not loaned to Vitesse. That's never been our policy and it never will be.

Essien seems to be on his way out and MVG is still an ACL short of playing for us. So you think Luke Shaw would be loaned out to Vitesse if we bought him?? Wow. You're just wrong. I could go down the old 'well that's your opinion....' route, but you're just very wrong about that. Like really wrong. I'm looking for a metaphor to say how wrong you are but I can't think of one. That's actually broken my brain.

Actually United look likely to loan out Fabio because he's third choice left-back and has only appeared in one league game all season....a bit like Bertrand.

Accountants eh? It all counts. League cup matches could've been included, except we aren't in that competition anymore and he wasn't in the last game either. We're selling De Bruyne so it's 5 for 3 spots now. Ash who has been dropped this season?? Luke Shaw would probably be first or second choice and then the plan would be for him to be first-choice for the next decade. How does that now make sense? True, but he's played 64 minutes of first-team league football in the first 21 games of the season. It's unlikely he would've played much and that's what these calls are based on. And in midfield that have Toure and Fernandinho.....then it's a big drop to Garcia and Rodwell. That's just the way it works sometimes. All of those players you've mentioned have played more than an hour of league football too.

I like this 'real striker' stuff. Costa as a real striker took till he was 24 to get into double digits for goals in a season. Rooney did that when he was still a teenager. Costa looks a great player and he's having a great season, but Rooney has also had great seasons (more than one in fact) and can play for us as a striker but also as an attacking midfielder when we play Lukaku or Torres up front.

In the league? 64 minutes less than Bertrand. Probably Luiz. Yes in hypotheticals it could be bad, but football clubs have to be run on the reality of the situation. We've let a player who has played 64 minutes of league football go on loan. If nothing it gets his wages off the books, but it might also be a sign of us signing Luke Shaw who could be the future of this club. Loaning a player who wasn't being used doesn't need spin. He's third choice left-back and he's got himself a decent loan.

1. The Bertrand + cash deal isn't happening until summer. At least Southampton would then be getting a player who actually played some Premier League games this season. 2. They don't want Bertrand, it'll be straight cash for Shaw (hopefully in this window) and we're looking to increase Bertrand's value before selling him in the summer. They could be happy with using Clyne and Chambers as they're full-backs. Hoping for the latter. Shaw to Chelsea just seems like the move that needs to happen. He fits our team perfectly, he loves the club and I just really like the look of the lad. Reminds me of a more physically imposing Le Saux.

Cole Azpi Ivanovic Kalas Luiz Terry Cahill 7 for 4. Not ideal but Bertrand wasn't being included anyway so the situation isn't vastly different than it was an hour ago. His transfer value was dropping so maybe this increases it or maybe we're actually looking at getting Zouma or Shaw in.

Why? He isn't playing for us so why not give him a chance to go and prove himself. The guy's 24. He needs to be playing football and he didn't seem likely to get it here. Maybe this does mean we're getting Shaw in a straight cash deal though. Who knows?

Needs to be playing at his age and hopefully it bumps up his transfer value a bit, although doesn't bode well for the Shaw deal this January if he was a realistic exchange option. Maybe he'll be included in the summer.

It's how the mistakes arise that is the issue. It's the brainfarts or the lack of concentration that seem to cause them. When JT made that mistake against Hull at the weekend it was genuinely unexpected. When Luiz makes that mistake against Hull every one around me was thinking 'not again'. The fact that the rest of that game was fairly embarrassing and one of the least committed I've ever seen from a player wearing our shirt doesn't really help matters. Luiz was actually dropped after that game as well. The next Premier League start was against Newcastle and he was not only poor in that game, he actually bottled a challenge. He was then dropped again after that and we started on a good run. That's what people are judging him on. We all know exactly what he can do, but until he does that it's still only potential and 26 year olds really shouldn't be talked about in terms of potential. It has to be Luiz who changes. There is no anti-Luiz bandwagon in the sense that he's unfairly targetted. People who pay their hard-earned money don't want to see a player putting in sub-par performances when they're capable of much more. That's where the frustration comes from. He should be much better but he doesn't play to 100% of what he's capable of. Cahill's ceiling is much lower but he gets the most out of the talent he has. So does JT. That's why they don't get as much criticism. Luiz's lack of commitment to getting the most out of his game verges on dishonesty and that's the one thing supporters in the stands will never forgive and no amount of Instagram pictures will assuage that. Because JT makes them so infrequently that it's not symptomatic of a larger problem. It was a one-off that surprised everyone. Were you surprised when Luiz made the mistake against Hull? Was anyone? Exactly. Because that's the way football works. Players are allowed to make the odd mistake but if it becomes something that happens a lot then a narrative is built. But the kids love a celeb who sticks out their tongue....it's the Miley Cyrus effect.