Tricky

Agreed, I wonder about the mentality of some people, they show no loyalty to players and demand instant success. It's fairly obvious to me that service to him has been poor in the last three games, team appears to lack balance an has yet to gel (think RDM needs to address the width issue). Like you I feel it would be fairer to judge him at Xmas. Ps - I believe he is going to score 20+ goals this year, and I'm going to enjoy bumping these threads when the time comes!

The thing is everyone keeps banging on about Drogba.... In his first 18 months he was poor, touch was bad, missed chances, sulked.... And this was in a team which crushed everyone domestically. His first full season he scored 16, Torres scored 11 in a struggling team and created more assists. People also dismiss the fact that Drigba recorded five league goals last year. All our strikers struggled, not just Nando. This year Torres started brightly, had a few bad games but on the whole has improved with 3 in 7 games. People still moaning about him, one bad game and the bashing starts. Your entitled to your opinions. I accept he could be better, but I'll judge him at Xmas, once he and the team have had time to gel.

If we conceded fewer goals than Stoke I can see us getting something from the game.

This... Drogba was pants for 18 months, despite being in a team which dicked over everyone domestically. People fail to realise we were piss poor last season, it's no wonder all our strikers struggled for goals.

I also feel Torres is to blame for the current economic situation, particularly in Spain (hell he is Spanish), and what the fuck has he done for world peace recently? ? Seriously I'm with you. Against Athleico we were poor, he wasn't great, but neither was anyone else. At QPR he was bad, couldn't seem to keep possession, but then our midfield was t-bagged for 90 mins. Against Juventus I felt he played quite well. People criticise him for drifting our wide (trying to find space) but then also criticise him for not making runs (ie into the space which was out wide. He can't win. What I did far more worrying is our right hand side and the double pivot. Should be thinking about playing a 4-3-3, or at least starting Moses on the right so that we can stretch the game and provide natural width. If we did this our Striker might actually have some room to work in. At the present he has Hazard, Ramirez, Mata and Lampard all attempting to occupy the same space, the hole just behind him. Ps - our worst performer this year is either Iva or Ramirez, yet to see any dedicated hate threads to them.

. Yes he did, in a team which dominated the domestic league. Drogba first full season saw him score 16 in all competitions. Torres scored 11 in a team which was struggling. I'm not gonna hate on the guy like some in this forum. I still believe he has what it takes, he started well this year and I fully expect him to score 20 plus goals this season. Something Drogba only did twice.

I also remember Drogba in his first 18 months at Chelsea, his finishing was piss poor. Along with his attitude during that period. This was playing for a team which was easily the best in Europe, a team assembled to play to his strengths. Anyways I'm not getting into it. Seems to be a lot of Torres bashing on the forum, I'm just glad those at the ground tend not to share those opinions, most still sing his name.

Drogba (the legend) scored 16 in his last 60. 5 last year when we struggled and finished 6th and 11 the year before. Not great stats for a guy people use as a bench mark. Believe Torres also provided more assists in that time frame (well he was being played out on the right for a while with Didier through the middle)

I don't, I think he is talking sense.... As he pointed out Drogba scored 5 league goals last year. That's fucking awful, yet I bet you believe he was amazing last year based on his CL performances. The reason? The service from midfield. I think the difference is going to be Moses and Marin as twy offer natural width stretching defences. This should provide the channels for him to work in. Channels which Falcao takes for granted at Athletici Madrid.

To be fair Torres was poor at QPR (he was fine last night against the best defence in Serie A, yes all three on his own)..... BUT who the hell wasn't, they bossed us in midfield which is a disgrace given the talent we have available.

BOOM!!! Well played sir.... Wish you would stop with all these valid arguments based on supporting stats. There is no room for them on a football forum. I prefer the rantings of ravings, of people who only see what they want to see (or read the tag papers). ?

Agree with all of this, people have rose tinted glasses. Forget how woeful out midfield was last year. That we are still very narrow in midfield and are just getting used to a new style of play. As for the guy who said "I've played soccer", Jesus no disrespect but it's called football, what lvl of soccer are you playing? International? Sunday league?

This....

Sigh.... He played against three centre halves last night. Our wingers played way to narrow which left him no room to work in. Hence his movement into the channels. He was poor against QPR, but he has played well this season. I expect things to get better when RDM finally realises that Ramirez is no winger. Marin and Moses are going to offer better width, pulling defenders out of position and providing some channels to work in.

Agreed, but your fans are fickle, tend to turn up when your winning. Best fans I've seen are Germans. The way they organise songs, dances etcetra is impressive.

I'm not you were saying he wasn't making any runs, I'm pointing out that he couldn't given the formation and the style we were employing. Besides Torres has played badly once this season. That was last week at QPR. He was okay last night, to say otherwise is to simply jump on the bash Torres wagon so many seem to be sitting on at the moment. Ps - Drogba was bloody awful for us for long periods, people seem to forget that.

It's called TV editing.... Do you go to games?

No disrespect but you've not listened to what I said. He had three centre halves to contend with, there was no space in the middle of the pitch. The fact we played so narrow only helped to limit the space he had to work in. Throw in three CMs and you can begin to see why he was drifting out wide to find some space. If Ramirez or Hazard had hugged those touch lines it would have forced the back three wider given Torres some channels to run into.

I've seen enough since we signed him to know that he is not great in possession, and not disciplined enough to hold in midfield. His stamina, pace and determination make him more suitable for a box to box midfielder. He is dynamic, restrict that and you lose most of his strengths.

Fuck no, Ramirez can't play in the pivot. He is not technical good enough, his strength is that he is an incredible athlete, would suit a 4-3-3.

Agreed sometimes wonder what people are thinking. Guess they jump on bandwagons without looking at the game. We played More of a 4-4-1-1 last night to combat your higher numbers in midfield (you hold your shape very well). Our problem was in possession we should have played wider, exploited the three at the back, giving Torres more space to work in. We maybe just edged the game but I'm talking 52-48. Your a very good team.

?..... be great to go some way towards defending our title. Got a good squad this year do I can see us finishing top four in the league easily (push for title next year IMO).

Don't agree with this. Guy clearly clipped his legs, it's a bread and butter decision. I'm hoping refs are not singling out Hazard; from what I've seen he has incredible acceleration, which enables him to beat people to the ball, they catch up clip / knock him over. I'm afraid it's not deliberate or cynical play by the defenders, just beating by pace.

Or a lack of space to run into. People complain about him drifting wide, well he was up against three central defenders and Ramirez and Hazard never stretched the defence by hugging the touch lines. Where was he supposed to go? Would have been crowded out in the centre of the pitch, especially with Juve having 3 cms.

I'd love to find a site which provides this kind of information, this is the stuff coaches use to choose tactics and personal. Certainly shows up our lack of width.