robsblubot

Yeah. Though even without the injury odoi is still a few years away from being able to really influence games, esp at CL. then again, so is Bayern.

This is factually correct. There have been numerous reports from former players stating that hazard enjoys a free role at the club. Under different managers too. as he should, but I agree that perhaps we just aren’t good enough to have a player in a free role at the moment.

The only big disagreement is regarding azpi, who for me is still twice the player and was a lot better than Emerson against burnley. Emerson final ball wasn’t good and that’s what’s important at this level... anyone can run and be active. Our defense line conceded 2 goals from set pieces and Emerson was part of that defense line. Imagine what folks would say if it were alonso sitting on his ass for the second... alonso’s obvious (and perhaps only) virtue is set pieces. He also fares better against physical teams due to height and power. Emerson is easily outmuscled, and often is. At least that’s what I see. Alonso’s lack of pace would not have been a problem either, against burnley, since we played in their half for most of the game. While both have been poor, they also have different characteristics and the manager should chose the one who fits the needs of the team in a game by game basis. Words like better liability, solid, are way too generic for me. Things are usually a bit more nuanced that that.

Andreas is CHOs age in CB years.

Hah the one game he would have been useful... burnley, as he’s actually good at set pieces, both defense and attack. in most other cases, there does not seem to make a difference which one plays.

His youth will help him have a speedy recovery. This injury can really be a dangerous one at senior level, but Odoi will recover. Time for the club to show commitment and get him a long term deal. Perhaps the player and his father/agent will have a difference appreciation for what can happen in a footballers career. Just a minor silver lining.

He was actually playing very well against burnley and got tired in the second half. There was very little space and game to be played in the final 20 mins or so. Disagree that his positioning was wrong. Eden needs spaces to play, big burly burnley players would’ve had the advantage had Eden verged in he center. Having loftus there made more sense. a reminder that we did score two goals... with edens assist too. just couldn’t defend set pieces, which I like to remind people are very very important in football.

That’s basically what I said: Odoi was having a decent game and Pedro had a poor game. Again, different times. Odoi would be having a good game if he was beating players with all that directness, he wasn’t. So while, I like the quick passing and movement, he wasn’t really influencing the game the way you may be suggesting, imo. So, you are establishing causation where there is likely none, or very little. That was my point. The odds that odoi would’ve been better than Pedro are very high because we agree that he was. The odds that we’d have won the game had he stayed becomes a little more difficult to establish, and imo aren’t very good. Even Eden was having trouble crossing the ball today, again, because of the opposition and the way they play.

Correlation does not establish causation. odoi was having decent game, and Pedro came on and had a poor game. They also played in different situations during the match. Reckon Pedro had it a bit more difficult. Likely wouldn’t have mattered. Now that I see more of him, reckon Emerson’s call to fame is not being alonso, but it is still difficult to cross the ball against packed defenses of tall and strong players. That’s why sarri kept loftus since he was one the few of our players outmuscling he opposition.

Rudiger is indeed our best cb by far.and used to the system, unlike Andreas. yes, the first half injuries played a big part, with our inability to defend set pieces aside. esp second half when some players looked very tired.

wasn’t the starting lineup a good one, some said it was great? Thing is that opposition matters a lot more than a name or two in the lineup. These guys are all strong and powerful and made our life very difficult today. We could’ve used better fullbacks perhaps, and players tired out in the second half. Injuries forced sarris hand, but all sensible tactical choices imo. RLC was doing well and joining the attack often, but we just could not put good balls in the box. dont like higuain myself, but usually against replacing a player who’s scored. That’s the only disagreement I have, which matters very little. The defense line was obviously vulnerable to set pieces. Ball playing cbs + 2 short fbs. The change in the cb also affects them esp a player who hasn’t played much this season. btw, don’t bee too harsh on Andreas, he’s Cho’s age in CB years.

We have Michy and Tammy out on loan. I'd rather have them any day. He’s really a tier or two above those two imo. Not because morara is great but because those two are not really good footballers. Tammy still has time to improve, but does not look promising I must say. while I agree with @Superblue_1986 that Morata is likely going to flop again, I don’t think we have much of a choice. he’s imo a lot better than the two strikers we got. Still he does not want to be here and does not have any to do the work, so only so much we can do.

Was Maxi Lopez at the meeting as well? Please tell me Wanda Nara is not his agent...

KDB had a massive game. Sterling too! how the hell did they manage to lose it... I guess Laporte had a terrible game with kompany slightly behind. Ederson may be great with his feet but as a goalie, not right there at the top for me.

Spurs and Ajax (as well as they may be playing) will be the underdogs in final against either Barca or LIverpool. This is looking really like WC brackets... Either Liverpool or Barca would be heavy favs against either one of the other two. Between Pool and Barca, hard to put money on either one... Barca ultimately is a possession side, so it will all depends on whether Pool will be able to pressure them or not. Unbelievable games... can't wait.

Can't play possession football with that first touch (in second Spurs goal)...

yup it is a crazy goal tally regardless of opposition: it was different times (a lot more goals then) and some were indeed against pub teams in the Sao Paulo regional comp. However, many were against other strong Brazilian sides (like you said brazil league was strong back then), in WCs or against euro champions when Santos traveled abroad, which they did a lot once they become famous worldwide. Like I said, Pele was also a lot more than the goals, at least from all I've heard. I still don't understand how he scored so many headers (even at WC) at 5 ft 8 in though... Recently Mbappe said it best even if being polite, “Even with the goals in playgrounds, goals on the PlayStation, I could never equal 1,250 (sic) goals,” said Mbappe as he met Pele at a sponsors’ event in Paris." France is indeed really talented and Mbappe himself is a top top player. I see a lot of Ronaldo 9 (while still had knees) in him. A bit less short dribbling/skill but same pace and even more power.

It's really not. I'm brazilian. You may have that idea from Rio bias, but for the rest of Brazil, no contest. (And I'm not from Sao Paulo, so definitely don't have a Santos/Pele bias) To elaborate a bit more, even though I obviously never seen either play, Pele or Garrincha, it's a lifetime hearing about their feats. Some of which, from close ones like when my Dad watched Pele play against his/our Gremio FBPA. Which was echoed by pretty much everybody I've met and what I've heard from talk shows and what not. I've heard Garrincha being pitted "just as good" by some, but never better. My personal feeling/take is that Garrincha wasn't that far behind though. but had huge physical (and mental) issues that cut his career short. Also, Pele was a far more complete player than you'd hear these days, and what his goal tally would suggest. He was absolutely dominant in midfield, in attack, defending, and he was even the reserve goalie for santos (played goalie when the GK got red-carded and the fucker did not concede against Gremio) . My dad told me that Pele could be mean too: if hunted during a match, he would sometimes retaliate and injure the players hunting him. He was pretty powerful too, a fantastic athlete, despite his height. The consensus was that Pele was the complete footballer.

True. Both could also be slotted in in the same starting XI without much tweaking, which emphasizes your point: very different players who play in different positions and roles. Difficult to compare anything with Pele as football was basically a different sport back then. Shame Messi hasn't been able to do the same for Argentina though... either hasn't really found himself in a good Argentina side with a good manager, and/or perhaps did not apply himself as much. @MoroccanBlue Nope, not many agree with that. Garrincha was more entertaining, but Pele was the better, and more influential, player.

Blind was actually one of the very few players in United backline who could pass the football. Obviously he did not fit in their philosophy...whatever the fuck that might be.

Sure, but that's a preference of style not of the players in question. Once again, you give Zouma to *any* possession side and he's not even sitting on the bench. Barcelona played years and years with Mascherano as a CB. Same way that Zouma would definitely work in a more direct system, where the CBs need to be aggressive and chase like you pointed out. So, "reliable" is relative. In a possession system, Andreas would be far more "reliable" than Zouma. You don't need to be strong when you keep the football and pass it along quickly. The opposition never gets to enough 50/50s to cause you problems. Zouma is very poor on the ball and a particularly bad passer. Perhaps Everton is his peak... wouldn't surprise me if he's moved there permanently. The trend these days is for ball-playing CBs (I don't make the rules).

yeah I totally meant ball playing as in skill. Good point. Reading the game can and usually is improved on by a huge margin by defenders as they play, which we expect Andreas to do (just like Stones).

true, but bulking up is a hell lot easier than learning how to play footie. been watching the game for a while and am yet to see a player drastically improving technique. I'm sure it must have happened, and it is possible, just the hardest thing and only to a certain limit. And once again, Andreas would've had a much easier time than Zouma if tossed in City's starting XI me thinks. It's all relative.

I know... his form dipped towards the end of the season. Just disagree with the overuse of better, worse, and "solid." Stones was also NOT solid, until he was... and because he's technically gifted, he's an excellent player.

That's fine as preferences go, but players aren't simply better or worse, and the word "solid" means very little to me. Plenty of mediocre "solid" defenders in the PL. Gary Cahill was a solid PL defender who could never play in any sort of possession system. Both are good young defenders with completely different characteristics. Andreas is really good on the ball for a defender. Zouma is also playing week in and week out, even when things were not going great. Andreas has hardly played this season. Match fitness makes a huge difference esp around physicality and reading of the game.