lentherussian

i agree with alot of what you say and of course alot is open to opinion. This season is the first i can remember teams struggling in cl. Normally we see us all gettin to quarters, quite a few times 2 in semis and in others weve knocked each other out in quarters. Fulham got to europa final 2 years ago beating juventus, hamburger, wolfsburg and shaktar. All those over 2 legs so that indicates that our smaller teams are still useful. I do also understand that a cup comp doesnt necessarily reflect the respective leagues and other leagues have definately improved. Its my opinion however that despite la liga being technically better than our league it hasnt been know where near as exciting to watch and i think the viewing figures and attendances all over the world would back up that opinion. I know germany have very high attendances but i also know you can watch most games there for a tenner. Charge 4x the amount and they wouldnt be up there i dont think. I play football and borderline obsessed with watching it and studying at tactics, love the way spain and barca play, admire it and am in awe as a purist and respecting there ability. But personally when i watch la liga games find them pretty dull. The problem with watching possesion football is that seein xavi passing to pique 50 odd times a game isnt that exciting. I appreciate just how hard it is to do what they do and i know it destroys teams but it gets boring. I prefer to watch a good old scrap in the middle, last ditch defending and a game seperated by a quality strike or bit of vision. My original post was that im getting a bit depressed with a lack of players who can make a difference throughout the league and i just highlighted my reason why i think its happening. What barca are doing for football is great because i suppose all countrys/teams look at whats succesful and try and emulate it and if we can bring thru more players who try and rely on there touch and vision instead of strength and power it can only be good. But i dont want our game to change that much.

Alot has been said of the state of the premier league this season especially after our teams struggled with the champ lge groups for the first time in a long time and im curious to know your opinion. My view is that its alot more complicated then just sayin '' its a weak league '' or ''Any of the man utd or chelsea sides 4 or 5 yrs ago would have won this league easy '' etc. I do however agree with the latter but mourinho and cristiano ronaldo were both big factors in that opinion and they dont come along every season. Its strange that man city are 17 points ahead of 8th place stoke and 19 ahead of villa as i dont believe man city are nearly as good as people make out. Man utd are 2 points off and its there worst team for a long time. The reason i dont neccesarly see it as weak is due to the fact that i cant remember seeing the prem with as many out n out stars for a long time, mata, silva, balotelli, ageuro, modric, van persie, rooney, suarez, vdv, nani, bale then theres the youngsters who look class like sturridge, romeu, jones, wilshere, hernandez etc. I suppose we can only talk properly about our own clubs as we obviously have a better knowledge/interst in them and 2 of my closest friends are everton and villa season ticket holders and there both telling me its there worst team in years. No craft, no real quality, basically very boring minded average teams. The only reason they wont go down is due to the fact that theres others worse off and they will probably finish there normal respective positions. The reason i use these teams as an example not only because i hear alot about them is because there the next level teams from the top 4/5/6 I think a large factor in the leagues nxt step clubs real lack of quality is the lack of options these teams now have. With money drying or dried up at these clubs but still both big teams in there own right they can now only attract the best of the average plyrs which tend to be your grafting type players. A few years ago these clubs could dip into other areas, players who were past there best but still had alot of quality or young very impressive plyrs from clubs around, ie. villa would sign good youngsters like downing, ash young, milner, barry etc and plyrs who had alot of talent but slightly past it like laursen, merson, carbone. Alot of lower prem teams would add these type of plyrs to improve there teams and you would nearly always have someone to watch at every club. Compare that now to the teams underneath the top 6? Youl do well to think of 3 players who you would consider to have uncoachable talent. The problems they face is that when a player hits 30 plus and starts to feel it a little or loses the full motivation required to be a top player there are so many cash rich clubs across the world now that they must be mad to turn it down. Weve just seen what anelkas moved for and what i believe drogba, alex and malouda will do, You cant blame them and it wont massively effect us but the clubs below in my opinion are the ones that are suffering. What great signings they would be for a villa or everton, 5 years ago possible but not now. If you were an everton and villa fan both teams of similar style who need a bit of creativity youd be saying, how bout maybe malouda, rosicky, arshavin or many other plyrs around europe who are no longer top standard players but on there day can change a game. But they are simply unsignable now, they will have offers from malaga, psg, russia, china, qatar or uae. To summarise my opinion, its beginning to piss me off reading about how bad the prem league is, this isnt a premier league issue its a world issue. Bar us, man city, man utd, barca, real madrid, psg and now malaga maybe milan, no one else in europe can compete for top players, that sort of scenario has always been the case as top players want top clubs/wages, but then u look at promising kids not quite ready or ageing stars. Thats when all the other clubs in the prem, la liga, bundesliga, serie a, got interested and the bidding began. Thats whats been ruined and thats why entertaining football is few and far between. Why sign for a club youve dropped wages and standard for when u can be the star of russia or the like and earn 400 grand a week. The gaps are margining all over europe and i feel for football as its made other teams have to rely on shutting up shop and hoping for the best as the quality players all over the world are off to earn a fortune in a desert.

that team been confirmed so im a happy man. Key point in game for me is ramires and merieles stopping balls to silva and gettin sturridge and mata on ball as quick as we can when we break

bit worried about playing bosingwa, luiz will be a loss for us tonight, Starting to look like his rashness is being tamed a little and his anticipation changing to bosingwas positional neglect at full back cud be a problem. Hope we play merieles ramires and romeu. Just feel that merieles is better than lamps defensively and better ball retention wise. Seems more balance in it then lamps and ramires. I dont know why and i really hope not but ive got a feeling he might play torres.

genk winning also, good news

for me this is our strongest line up. Knowing how our big european nights go im fearful of a sending off or dubious pen. Come on chels.

i suppose the lesson to be leaernt is be careful what u wish for cus im beginning to tire of this merry go round of players and managers althouh have to be grateful ive seen us win leagues and doubles. Would be great to see evolve a bit more instead of just keep buying.

Thats my point on whats wrong with our club and why it hurts to support us at the moment, just wish as fans we could make our feelings and expectations known to the club. Id rather see us fall out of champ league places but start to play players who appreciate our club rather then some of the tossers representing us at the min.

i know but its not too young to make a debut is it? hes an exceptional talent, be great for his confidence,belief etc. Im not saying start him away and man city.

my opinion (for what its worth) on our team now and why im starting to get disheartened is that with all the constant change of managers etc and romans billions were starting to turn into a bit of a mess of a football club. I feel theres no structure to your club anymore. I used to go very regular back in 1999 through to 2004 and absolutely loved our club and enjoyed the roller coaster and constant improving as a proper club. Old regs like dennis wise becomming better players due to those around him improving, jon harley jody morris john terry danny granville mark nicholls all coming through the ranks, zola who loved every minute of being a chelsea player, vialli managing with his heart on his sleeve and adopting chelsea as his club despite being tactically naive. I know weve had some great years and mourinho was amazing for us and still embedded all that was good with chelsea but its starting to grate on me now. Not just because were beginning to lose more often, Im sure as all our real fans would agree its not about glory, its about pride and theres not much but history im proud of at the min. I want to state however that i do like avb as a man and hope to god he turns it round as hes trying his best to do a hard job. I thought winning the league was a bridge to far this season as we finished 3rd last year and appointed a new manager to change team and system as others were givin time to get better, so my moan isnt about lack of success. Against liverpool the other night we played only josh mceachran and ryan bertrand whos 22 whos developed through our youth team. Thats shit imo. This is from a club whos youth team two years ago won the fa youth cup, most of that team then turned out for the reserves last year and won the reserve league, so im guessing the talent is there. I know theres the opinion that if there good enough they will get a game etc but i disagree, i believe players fullfill there potential playing with great players, remember wise before and after gullit, di matteo zola etc, same goes with ray parlour at arsenal and i suppose to a similar level lescott and barry at man city at min. I was present at alot of john terrys first games and i didnt see him becomming this good. I as a fan wanted to see, bruma, mancienne, borini, cork and more recent even clifford, lalkovic, chalobah get a chance. Could borini or lalkovic be as bad as what torres has been? or bruma mancienne clifford chalobah be allowed to make as many mistakes as luiz, bosingwa etc. Dont even get me started on malouda and anelkas effort for the cause. I hate to mention arsenal and man utd but can only make my point with comparisons. I know through people in the game that the reason wellbeck has been given a chance for man utd ahead of berbatov is because AF wants a manchester born forward playin for his club, obviously he s talented but he understands what its all about for the fans aswel. Arsenal under wenger in the past when hes lost big players has given the fans what they want and let the young players have a go make mistakes and improve to there potential. What do we do? buy a zhirkov and kick our youngsters in the teeth. I believe this is due to the constant change of manager and everyone comes with the pressure of having to succeed, they then fail get sacked and the nxt manager inherits players he doesnt want. I really want this to change and will accept the recent slump even if it continues as long as we start to move on with purpose and the staff/manager remembers that all the fans really want is players playing who love being part of chelsea fc. For me and i wont be swayed any other way that means torres, malouda, anelka and bosingwa out in jan. On a positive note i do think that the likes of ramires, mata and luiz show enough passion to be welcomed with open arms at our club, just hope succeed or fail avb gives josh more game time in big games and a few games for clifford and chalobah would be all i want for xmas.

i think sturridge and drogba are both strikers

its like the man utd game in the sense all they need to do is hit diagonal balls into the channels and were fucked. all season this has happened, doesnt matter if its bertrand cole bosingwa ivanovic feriera, its amateur and unless all those 5 are poor defenders the manger has to take the blame. why o why does he start torres in any game. Hes a disgrace to chelsea, no passion and has 5 minute bursts of energy as if to look interested. People on here questioned why i criticised torres attitude a cpl of months ago, if they cant see it now theres no hope for them. He dangles a leg defensively, keeps pretending to be fouled every 50 50 instead of making an effort to get the ball, doesnt score, cant hold it up. Hes worse than chris sutton.

do u not see our players aimless just stroking the ball across the back then middle, no idea how to play forward balls, torres doesnt move and cant hold it up lukaku and josh werent wide players anelka isnt bothered. He could at least put us out there with a gameplan.

i actually cant believe that showing interest is now an attribute but i know what your saying. Hes woeful.

i agree that the players should take responsibility but what do u expect when u keep startin players like malouda,torres, bosingwa who arent up for any sort of challenge. Then brings on anelka on, what was his first contribution? a cocky back heel. They are not players i want us to be associated with. Also as i said in earlier thread there is absolutely no balance in some of the teams he puts out, our players never know where our outlet is.

i think avb has pretty much got everything wrong again tonite. well done.

can we please just put torres out of his misery and sell him

alan shearer used to play right back

my personal opinion is that when avb makes changes he does so and picks a side without any balance whatsoever. lukaku and torres are both number 9s, malouda is plaing mainy central midfield and his ball retention is dreadful with josh playing wider.i know they swap occasionaly but really dont get it.

do you not think he could offer us a good cpl of seasons? dont think he needs to be super mobile to be incredibly effective, think drogba at 30, zola, gullit, wise, lampard etc for us. For others bergkamp at 30, sheringham, yorke, etc etc. Players are fit enough to be playing at 33. could be vital in carrying youngsters thru for a cpl of seasons.

with tevez goin to milan maybe, i hope we try n persuade milan to take torres aswel, offer a bucket load of cash and take ibrahimovic. Hed mbe my ideal front man in a 3, technically great, scores goal and is a born winner. I know hes 30 but hes fit, doesnt rely on pace and if he cud give us 2/3 years and bring lukaku on it could be a very shrewd move. AVB if your reading, DO IT and everyone can thank me after.

I know liverpool have just beaten us and the carling cup would be a great trophy for us to succeed in given the start/confidence at the min but i dont think avb should change his initial outlook and start a first team. Whats sayin thats gonna guarantee a victory? imiagine if it backfired and we lost? Also i think the development of our future players should be the main priority. Bertrand should start, he had a very good game against everton IMO for someone who hasnt had much game time. Id also play romeu as continuity would be a good thing for someone whos just edged into the first team and looks as if he could answer some problems weve been having. so maybe mikel anchoring with romeu keeping things moving and josh to create. Id play lukaku as the main forward with kalou and maybe sturridge also for continuity out wide. I dont know if anyone agrees but my opinion on malouda has turned to one of ive had enough of him. Am i right in thinking hes looking for a new contract? now ive watched some real lacklustre half arsed performances from him the last year or so and last week he comes out with the '' players must take blame'' comment, ''excuses is for losers'' etc. Then we bring him on against leverkusen and he runs his nuts off, beating players, decent crosses etc. Stinks of someone playing for a contract. Chuck him out along with anelka if you ask me.

after that comment he made, id suggest no. Questioning terrys commitment is almost as ridiculous as when craig bellamy questioned him as a man.

Ill admit, i wasnt a fan of torres as a player before he joined so maybe im over critical but i have never watched him play and seen a player whos enjoying playing for chelsea. His body language is awful, i dont think you have to be an expert to see that. You get the spoilt, petulant attitude with alot of strikers, remeber drogba and ballack arguing over a free kick, but the difference is you always excused it because theyve delivered time and time again for us. I think weve all seen drogba act petulant but all cfc fans knew that it was because he had such a desire to win and we could except it. .Suarez is the same at liverpool, he has a go everytime the ball isnt played to him, like drogba thats because he desperately wants to get hold of the ball and try and win the game for l'pool and the difference is hes been unbelievably good when hes had the ball so you cant complain. A strikers primary job is to finish, hes finishing has been a worldwide joke since hes joined yet he moans at others???. AVB wants to play a hard working up tempo pressing game yet plays torres, maloda and anelka, hes gotta be joking. I run more on a sunday then those 3 combined.

terrefic post from madmax but i also take a point from tomo's. I dont think its that hard to be including one and playing him even as a sub on a regular basis. I also think the point a few european managers have made about putting the top sides reserves at lower level league football would be so beneficial to our youth players. The last ten years has seen reserve football become such a mis match on how clubs approach it that it really has become a worthless exercise. I dont know the average age of our youth team but i can imagine its very young, 16/17? coming up against internationals some weeks and as late just gettin hammered. They tend not to include lukaku, josh, romeu, bertrand all that much whilst letting kalas, kakuta, bruma all go on loan elsewhere, some even playin in differenet leagues. We dont rehabilatate recovering players in reserves anymore or out of form players like teams used to. The loaning system very rarely improves these players, i remember brendan rodgers saying when he was at cfc jose didnt want to loan the young players out because the teams they had to go to didnt play the right football in order 4 them to develop properly. Which leaves talented kinds in limbo Like madmax said it takes a brave if not stupid man to bring a 17yr old in for international captain. Therefore your left with the problem of where to put them? If we had our reserves in league 2 for instance it would be a great experience for them and a natural progression to work your way up. I hate to see whats happening to josh because it is what weve all seen so many times and althouh hes still 18 hes also ambitious and must get down. Against fulham he started great and must have loved it, then we go down to 10 men and despite hes ability to look after the ball gets dragged. Against a stronger everton, he looked nervy but had very good flashes and came out 2nd half well then 10 men and subbed again, leaving kalou and malouda still on who gave the ball away for fun all night. He didnt loan him to wigan when he could, he hardly plays reserves and watches the 1st team. Dont see how thats improving anyone. Be great to see him loaned to swansea in jan. Then to make it worse we sign a 20 yr old from barca who looks a potential star in his position. Althouh i think romeu looks the real deal i wish we hadnt signed him.