The Skipper

The pace.

Reminds me of Shearer.

I'm not using FM or FIFA to state a fact, just saying that Rekin's use of it was nowhere near as bad as CL11 is patronisingly saying it is. Anyone that watched Firmino and Oscar wouldn't say that Oscar is significantly faster.

His point remains. Oscar isn't exactly a pace merchant but Firmino isn't significantly slower. Oscar is slightly quicker but the difference is nowhere near as pronounced as you say they are. The FM and FIFA games don't just pluck numbers from anywhere either so it's nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make it seem. He just used them to reinforce one slight point he was making and from what I've seen, there is no way one would say Firmino is significantly slower either.

What you've said was fine, obviously FIFA and FM don't pluck their stats from thin air, especially when it comes to a player as well known as Firmino/Oscar.

Excellent post.

Naturally, his creative stats are going to look better as he's moved into the middle full time now rather than being out on the right, but to me those stats are out of context and they don't prove he's improved in that aspect of his game at all. Most of his assists this season have been very, very basic. That I won't disagree with, it is a hunch indeed. As I've said before, I would be more than happy for Oscar to prove me wrong and for him to go on and truly establish himself as a quality player but from what I've seen so far, I sincerely doubt that will be the case. You can give me the example of Di Maria, I can give you the example of Mikel who fully stagnated as a player. It can certainly go both ways. It's true that he had a good start to the season but I personally started to have question marks on whether he truly has it in him to become a world class player around that time, even though he was performing - I made those clear a few weeks ago before his recent slump, and obviously his recent slump, which is very reminiscent of the one he had last season, is sort of reiterating my point more strongly. I'll still stand by it until I see different. I do agree that he most definitely is exhausted right now so his strengths (pressing, tactical awareness) are subdued even further. I agree we've seen sloppy passes from everyone but it's never been Oscar's strength and he's misplacing even the most simple passes on a regular basis now. He's terribly off form at the moment so naturally, when a player who can do exactly what he can is in good form, I'd definitely prefer to see that player given a shot (Willian). Willian has never been given an extended go at the number 10 position either, which many have said is his best position. Oscar's role in the team can easily be replaced by him. I understand Willian hasn't been amazing this season but then again, he hasn't had a chance to show what he's got in his best position for us yet. If Oscar is on form then I'd say it's different and that there is a lot less in between them but as it stands right now, our strongest team IMO would include Willian in the middle. Thanks Dee, I do appreciate that. You could say I am partly using his blip in form as justification, I can't say I'm not, but his blips in form are a regularity, so I do believe that I can use this to enhance my argument, yes. A month or so of good football at the start of the season from Oscar isn't enough for me not to disregard his current bad form when it's a regular thing. PS: Sorry for the spelling mistakes if there are any. Sort of rushed this.

It's not just Sky Sports though, BBC and The Guardian have him down at £25m as well. 25m euros in 2012 was over £20m as well I think, around £21m.

I'm sorry you feel that way Barb but honestly don't think you would be saying this if I was still in Oscar's corner, aggressively defending him.

Where are you getting £19m from? Sky Sports have him quoted at £25m. Is it that unrealistic for anyone to expect great things from Oscar since we paid £25m (£25m for a 20 year old is a lot!) for him?

Thank you for articulating my thoughts.

All things he was pretty good at already. The attributes we were hoping that he'd improve on (creativity, passing/vision, consistency) have not whatsoever over the last three years. Things he really needed to to become a bonafide world class player. Even those attributes you've mentioned - he isn't world class in any of them.

And please, the argument from me isn't that we should sell Oscar. As I've said before, he'd make an excellent squad player. I just don't believe that he's good enough, or ever will be good enough to be a starter for the next decade. We can do better. I've got my criticisms of him, but I've always said that he's a decent player and does add value to the squad. Not as a starter though for me unfortunately. I've made that clear from the start. Bottom line is, we can do better IMO, even internally (Willian).

I'm going to ignore that personal remark. Again I ask anyone, please list me the areas in Oscar's game where we've seen clear improvement over the last 3 seasons... I cannot see it personally.

You could argue it's the same for people that are trying to defend Oscar... Same old arguments of: 1. He's young (laughable) 2. He's sacrificing himself to balance the team 3. He's got 6 goals and 7 assists 4. His pressing game is amazing (it's not when he's fatigued and off form) 5. No other number 10 or player can do what he does... There are more but it goes both ways.

A bit inconsistent? Really? Oscar is 24 this year, people really need to stop looking at him as some sort of young player, like a Zouma or Ake for example. Improved a lot in what aspects of his game please? List them off for me.

How about we do this then: Costa Hazard - Willian - Cuadrado Matic - Fabregas Your argument is dead with this team tbh.

I used to argue the same but he doesn't even press excellently anymore and his link up play has gone dire. He's struggling to make basic passes. He's more of a liability now than actually balancing out the team. As I've argued already, Ramires or Willian can provide what he does in the team more effectively on current form. And the "as he matures" excuse is so tiresome, he's played a lot of football over the last 3 seasons but he's barely improved.

Oscar plays in the middle of the park, Willian is out wide, of course it's going to be easier for Oscar to get more assists. Willian is more creative because he can see the more difficult pass better, whereas Oscar won't even see it and fails a lot when trying to do a basic through ball.

Are you not reading my argument when I'm saying that we should play Ramires or Willian in the team over Oscar? Besides, being world class and hard working aren't mutually exclusive. I hope you know that. Oscar is a passenger at the moment. He isn't even doing the things he does well (work rate, tactical discipline) greatly.

Not hard... With Cesc, Ramires and Matic it would be more of a midfield three with Fabregas dropping a bit deeper to receive the ball and influence the game.

Oscar and creative? I don't think so, sorry. Willian beats him on almost everything bar finishing and maybe movement in the final third.

Apart from switching off for their goal, Bane was excellent defensively.

I personally think that Willian and Ramires (in the pivot with Fabregas at 10) would be better than having Oscar in the team on current form.

This is rubbish tbh. I'm not liking how people are trying to slate Eden, who is far more talented and a lot more consistent, to justify Oscar's performances. Awful. Hazard hardly gives away the ball with sloppy passes. Oscar does it regularly.