Cescy

Don't think either could easily replace Oscar's goal threat, involvement in building attacks and final ball. They would maybe offer something different, but we would be losing some things in return. In games Oscar hasn't played our offensive transition and fluidity in attack haven't been as good, and Costa especially has seemed more isolated. We can win some games without him, as we have without Hazard, Costa and Fabregas in the past.

Best defense my foot. Madrid and Barcelona attack far more than we do and their so called rubbish defenders get isolated one on one against almost all their opponents they face but they handle it.
Our so called best defense has finally played in a Chelsea side which attacks more than the previous ones and they can't handle any pressure unless we park the bus. Bullshit defense.

Lol at people saying Jose is past it.

@chelseafc: .@oscar8 completed 68 passes against Swansea, more than any other player...
According to FourFourTwo, the biggest pass combination of the game was Oscar-Hazard.
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I feel like the line is being drawn pretty arbitrarily, regarding this whole 'sloppiness' issue.

@chelseafc: .@oscar8 completed 68 passes against Swansea, more than any other player...
According to FourFourTwo, the biggest pass combination of the game was Oscar-Hazard.
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I feel like the line is being drawn pretty arbitrarily, regarding this whole 'sloppiness' issue.

I was very circonspect when I read your assumption, so I decided to do the research and verify it.
First of all, I dont see where you count two pre-assists for Wilian vs Swans. First goal, no pre-assist ; second goal Oscar's pre-assist (Wilian's pass is pre-pre-assist ^^) ; third goal no pre-assist ; fourth goal Willian pre-assist ; fifth goal Hazard's pre-assist.
So as for my research, I based it on the video below + Highlights against Tottenham, Watford, Newcastle and finally Swansea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyu-PD-nnHs
The research is a bit incomplete because in the first video one can't always see who made the pre-assist. For some I looked at a highlight video of the game, but couldn't find some of them. But I dare say that 90% of the pre-assists are taken into account in my research.
As for the methodology, I counted as pre-assist every last pass before an assist EXCEPT when it is clear that the last pass before the assist had nothing to do whatsoever with the make-up of the goal. For example I considered that Terry giving an easy 5 yards pass to Fabregas in midfield, then followed by a 40 yards pass from Fabregas who spotted Costa's run does not count as pre-assist from Terry. It's all thanks to Fabregas imo.
Also, I counted a pre-assist even when the pre-assister is also the scorer. For example Hazard's goal against Tottenham, with a beautiful one-two with Fabregas : Hazard is credited one pre-assist, even though he also scored. Seemed fair to me.
So here are the results :
Hazard : 14 pre-assists
Fabregas : 6 pre-assists (four of them are from corners : Fabregas takes the corner, someone heads the ball toward the far-post, and another one pushes the ball in the net)
Costa : 4 pre-assists
Ivanovic : 3 pre-assists
Wilian : 3 pre-assists (one against Maribor, the quick corner against Newcastle, one against Swansea... and that's all)
Oscar : 2 pre-assists
Luis : 1 pre-assist
Cahill : 1 pre-assist
So, your assumption is wrong, Willian is nowhere near leading the "pre-assist competition", Hazard is by far the leader.
And I have been quite gentle with Willian, because I counted a pre-assist against Maribor where it shouldn't have been counted. It's a pre-assist for Filipe Luis, who crosses for Hazard, and it ended up with an own goal of a Maribor's defender : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pB2OXKAGFA
2m10 in this video you can see the goal I'm talking about, I thought he deserved to be credited a pre-assist because he helped set-up the goal very much, but technically it is not a pre-assist.
Some observations from this research : Oscar has only two pre-assist (the one against Swansea for Fabregas' assist), and Matic has none ! I really didn't expect these results from both these players.

@chelseafc: .@oscar8 completed 68 passes against Swansea, more than any other player...
According to FourFourTwo, the biggest pass combination of the game was Oscar-Hazard.
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I feel like the line is being drawn pretty arbitrarily, regarding this whole 'sloppiness' issue.

I'll echo DYC in saying that you've articulated your points well so props for that. But if your argument is that Oscar isn't good enough for Chelsea, irrespective of his goals and assists, because his passing isn't up to your standards (which is essentially what you're implying in bolded part of your post) then that's what I would call a hypercriticism.
Oscar's passing has room for improvement. Even those who avidly defend him won't deny that. But overlooking the impact he's made in goals + assists, and assessing his worthiness to this team by a singular standard like passing is nitpicking. That's like writing off Costa because of his weak aerial ability, or Cesc because of his lack of pace or athleticism. I get your point that the team would be more effective if Oscar's passing were better, but the team would also be more effective if Costa were better in aerial duels, or if Cesc had blinding pace. These players might have one one of two limitations but those weaknesses are minutia compared to what they contribute to the team. So while Oscar's passing could certainly be better however his contribution in others aspects is so valuable that it more than compensates for a few misplaced passes.
I think unlike one or two others who have been critical of Oscar, your own problem with Oscar is more about you than any major limitations with the player himself and it seems to me that because Chelsea is a club with big ambitions you're using that to rationalize, quite frankly, overly fastidious criticisms.
A team does not have to have 11 Eden Hazards to compete with the best, a team can have 1 Hazard, 1 Cesc, 1 Costa and an Oscar and guess what, still be very successful. There's having high standards and then there's have unrealistic standards.

I think 5 out of Oscar's 6 goals in the league have been the opening goals of the game. His assists are usually early in the game too. He's more decisive this season.
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Ah yes contribution in the prestigious Club World Cup, Europa and against 3rd division Spanish sides. Even looking at your list Oscar fairs well against some of the best players in the world...
Comparison of Oscar, Isco, James, KDB, Gotze, Koke and Muller in their leagues. Quick let's make a £80m bid for James or Muller for their additional 0.04 or 0.03 respective contributions . If we can't get them, let's replace Oscar with Koke or Isco because... new toys. Forget how they fit our system, with our other players, if they are even an upgrade or opportunity cost.
Yeah let's be fair to Isco, but not our own player who drops deep regularly and defends way more than most of the people on that list...
It doesn't matter how much he improves with a few of you on this forum, the goal posts will just keep moving.

I think 5 out of Oscar's 6 goals in the league have been the opening goals of the game. His assists are usually early in the game too. He's more decisive this season.
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Ah yes contribution in the prestigious Club World Cup, Europa and against 3rd division Spanish sides. Even looking at your list Oscar fairs well against some of the best players in the world...
Comparison of Oscar, Isco, James, KDB, Gotze, Koke and Muller in their leagues. Quick let's make a £80m bid for James or Muller for their additional 0.04 or 0.03 respective contributions . If we can't get them, let's replace Oscar with Koke or Isco because... new toys. Forget how they fit our system, with our other players, if they are even an upgrade or opportunity cost.
Yeah let's be fair to Isco, but not our own player who drops deep regularly and defends way more than most of the people on that list...
It doesn't matter how much he improves with a few of you on this forum, the goal posts will just keep moving.

I think 5 out of Oscar's 6 goals in the league have been the opening goals of the game. His assists are usually early in the game too. He's more decisive this season.
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Ah yes contribution in the prestigious Club World Cup, Europa and against 3rd division Spanish sides. Even looking at your list Oscar fairs well against some of the best players in the world...
Comparison of Oscar, Isco, James, KDB, Gotze, Koke and Muller in their leagues. Quick let's make a £80m bid for James or Muller for their additional 0.04 or 0.03 respective contributions . If we can't get them, let's replace Oscar with Koke or Isco because... new toys. Forget how they fit our system, with our other players, if they are even an upgrade or opportunity cost.
Yeah let's be fair to Isco, but not our own player who drops deep regularly and defends way more than most of the people on that list...
It doesn't matter how much he improves with a few of you on this forum, the goal posts will just keep moving.

I think 5 out of Oscar's 6 goals in the league have been the opening goals of the game. His assists are usually early in the game too. He's more decisive this season.
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Ah yes contribution in the prestigious Club World Cup, Europa and against 3rd division Spanish sides. Even looking at your list Oscar fairs well against some of the best players in the world...
Comparison of Oscar, Isco, James, KDB, Gotze, Koke and Muller in their leagues. Quick let's make a £80m bid for James or Muller for their additional 0.04 or 0.03 respective contributions . If we can't get them, let's replace Oscar with Koke or Isco because... new toys. Forget how they fit our system, with our other players, if they are even an upgrade or opportunity cost.
Yeah let's be fair to Isco, but not our own player who drops deep regularly and defends way more than most of the people on that list...
It doesn't matter how much he improves with a few of you on this forum, the goal posts will just keep moving.

I guess the problem I have with most of these criticisms of Oscar is that too much significance and value is being placed on something that doesn’t really make a huge difference to the team’s success when looked at in the larger context of the player’s overall contributions. Oscar’s passing can be frustratingly sloppy sometimes, that’s a fair assessment but on the other hand his productivity has been mightily impressive. So while Oscar might be ”failing” in one or two aspects of his role as a number 10, he’s also highly performing in many other aspects of his job. The positives very much outweigh the negatives so I’m confused why so much more importance and value is being placed on him misplacing 10 or so passes than on his excellent output this season. I just think that there’s something very frivolous in complaining about the sloppiness of a player’s passing when that player's direct contributions to 13 goals in the league has helped the team maintain a title challenge. Ultimately, his input in 13 goals is so much more valuable to the team’s success than him being able to complete 85% of his passes in every game.
People have every right to criticize him, but others also have every right to say that these people criticizing Oscar are nitpicking. 23 years old, 6 goals and 7 assists, and here we are complaining that he routinely misplaces 5-10 easy passes, hmmm...
Well, in an ideal world yes but in the real world you have average players who are excellent passers of the ball and excellent players who are average passers. Nuances like that exists. Assessing a player's contribution to his sides's attacking play only by how high his pass completion is seems like a very skewed way of judging a player's talent.

doesn't matter, not good enough for the amazing Chelsea fans on this forum.
Also, he linked up and pre-assisted (as people love to give Eden credit for this) our third goal. He had two more shots that were nearly goals, he linked up with Cesc and Hazard pretty well, he pressed amazingly, but to the hell with all this. They want Hazards in every damned position of the pitch, which makes me sad because it means they don't actually realize how blessed we are for having Hazard because players like him are hard to find. But you know... Oscar sucks. I guess he had been involved directly in 8 goals in the last 9 games he played, but that's not bloody enough for TC members.
I don't give a buck about what they think though
edit: also according to Squawka, shitty Oscar had a 87% pass completion (misplacing an incredible amount of five passes the whole second half) and created one key pass in the second half, but some people insist on saying he was sloppy in the second half. I should stop coming to this thread. I spent a long time avoiding Eden's thread, I think it's now time to avoid this one.

I'm hoping a drought-breaking goal against Newcastle will give Oscar some added confidence, and he definitely thrives on this. I think his uncharacteristically animated celebration after scoring shows just how much he needed a goal to end a tough period of illness and poor performances.

They're all spoil idiots. Again, name a better young AM in the League having a better season than Oscar. He isn't just padding his stats either in blowout victories either. So many of his contributions have been consistently crucial. Take a look at our previous games in the League this season and take note of the sheer number of opening goals he's either scored or assisted.
Sure his all round game isn't as polished as Hazard's but Eden is a generational talent. Oscar will continue to improve with more experience and as he develops physically.

This.
Oscar has a significant amount of time on his side. At 23 at this level, he has mammoths of potential.
The industrious nature of his play has been taken for granted by many, a lot do not seem to understand he's not a traditional #10. He excels in creating space, spreading play, receiving and passing the ball in tight spaces. There are moments where he makes some intelligent runs, and his vision in general is showing some auspicious progression. There's crystal clear evidence of creativity there, and anyone with half a brain would figure that there's a promising playmaker in development. This is all omitting the fact that he has a defensive capacity for the Premier League. His tenacious attitude that shows he is willing to work hard for Mourinho is admirable; he implements a creditable amount of unselfish shifts into his play. He has a firm understanding of how this team works and is capable of switching places with Fabregas to support or to create opportunity for the team. In fact, his movement off the ball and synergy with most of the outfield players that the team have, is praiseworthy as a whole. How some are suggesting, that buying a new attacking midfielder who would then miraculously slot into this role and significantly improve the team, is short sighted to say the least.
Could Oscar have performed better yesterday? Obviously. The entire team could have, though. There were aspects of his play which seem to have been ignored. In the first half, he spent a lot of time around the left flanks in order to shut down players such as Sissoko and Cabella, who were indisputably Newcastle's biggest threats.
Give this guy time; it's almost guaranteed that he will eventually start to ooze world class quality.

You can play "well" and statistically have nothing to show for that performance.
Conversely, you can have a below-par game and end up with a well-taken goal and a genius assist.
I'm quite happy seeing more of the latter.
For his entire Chelsea career, Oscar's contribution has been for the team and rarely ever individual. By that, I mean he isn't an archetypal number ten. He is the least glamorous of our attacking players based on the role he does for the team, which is not to score or assist goals; his role is to be a combative little terrier in the middle of the park who effectively acts as a screen in front of our two pivot midfielders. He pops up with the odd goal and assist because he often plays a lot deeper than the number 10s mentioned above. The way he interchanges with Hazard, Willian and Fabregas is excellent and his versatility makes him a very useful player for us. José could "let him off the leash" and allow him to play his natural game, but for our present 4-2-3-1 system to work it requires more of a box-to-box player in the number ten role; something Mata simply couldn't fulfil. I think Oscar is a terrific player whose contribution to the team shouldn't be measured by assists and goals. If we were to let him have free rein, he'd pop up with 15 goals a season and 15 assists. But if we did that, defensively we'd be horrific.
I'd agree, he might occupy the number ten position on the starting line-up whenever Sky do their thing pre-match, but the reality is he does have a free role behind the striker - but unusually it is more of a defensive role than an attacking one. Whichever way you choose to define it, he's a top midfielder and shouldn't be judged on the goals and assists he provides because ultimately Oscar's contribution to the team is the lung-bursting run he makes to get back and make a tackle after having supported attack after attack. His engine is incredible, but because we were spoiled by having some incredible attacking midfielders, not least Lampard, Ballack, Essien et al., anyone who plays as an advanced midfielder for Chelsea has to score 15+ goals a season, just like Frank did.
The fact is he is now starting to show more individual impact upon the game in terms of goals and assists is positive, IMO. He shouldn't be judged on that output but nonetheless he is an attacking midfielder and will be expected to offer goals and assists.

Well, I think his first half was one of the worst performances I've watched from a player in a big club.
Still he scored the goal when we needed it the most, and while it was a tap in, he was there. So I guess that counts a bit?
I said in the live thread he needed a hat trick for the whole match performance to be considered even decent.
I think he improved a lot in the second, he was firmer in the pressing, in the tackling, seemed like good, old Oscar defending (as he was quite sloppy even on that in the first). He cut off the incomplete passes and tried 2-3 times a more daring pass, one of them resulting in the assist for the second goal.
The way people - at least in the live thread - completely disregarded that assist is sinful. Had it been Eden or Cesc they would be sucking their D until there was no tomorrow.
It doesn't make up for the terrible first half he had, but 1) he wasn't the only one, no one, except Cech had a good first half imo; 2) we keep asking our AMs to be more decisive, to win us matches... then the kid despite having a bad technical match scores a goal and has a beautiful assist but most people disregard it.
As I said, those isolated things and a few other good things he did in the second don't cancel the atrocious first half he had, but they deserve credit, although unsurprisingly, because it's Oscar, he gets nearly none.

His assist was absolutely fantastic, the only other players we have in the squad who could have pulled that off consistently in the same situation are Hazard and Cesc, our best players. In the second half he could have still grabbed another assist in that beautiful collective play which ended with him passing to Costa with a header. Honestly, and speaking for the second half only, he had a very good performance.

Not a great game but credit where credit is due.
He made the run, which made himself available for the tap in. He had a freaking assist from a very clever flick. More than fabregas had going forward today. Or hazard?
Also credit to Newcastle for making passing in the final third difficult for us.

Our defense let us down today. Oscar's performance wasn't even that bad, but I understand the decision to bring Ramires on, though I don't think he made much of a difference.

Chelsea "created more," because Spurs were leading 3-1 and were happy to sit back and defend.