The Chels

I don't understand the argument that the club didn't show any loyalty to Lampard. We kept him well after his best on ridiculously high wages and offered him a new contract on lower wages but he refused. What do people expect, that the board keep him on forever and on wages of 150k/week? We showed enough loyalty to him over the years and as Jose said the club were/are willing to give him some kind of management role. He showed absolutely no loyalty once he saw the $ signs from City though.

Let's not forget Ashley Cole who had offers from rival clubs in England too but chose to go abroad out of respect. Drogba did the same and I expect Cech would too. True legends.

Pretty much. Ivanovic doesn't close the winger down quickly enough, allows the cross in and from Zouma's clearance Luis also doesn't close the opposition down quickly enough. They manage to score and Luis is thus hauled off and dropped for the subsequent CL match. Never mind that Ivanovic did the same thing and if you remember the chance Maribor had soon after scoring where they missed an open goal opportunity, Ivanovic switched off from the cross.

exactly. Hazard and Schurrle have both been slated publicly (and subsequently dropped) by Jose for losing concentration in games (Atletico and City) where Ivanovic did the exact same thing. It's strange though because Mourinho and the vast majority of Chelsea fans refuse to acknowledge the fact that Ivanovic regularly costs us points. I reckon because Jose plays him all the time, lots of fans automatically assume he's amazing defensively.

Ivanovic has been given years to adjust to the RB role. He still hasn't learned how to close players down quickly, deal with diagonal balls and how not to lose concentration.

I'm not saying that's the only reason but it could well have been part of the allure in signing him. Atletico are the only serious CL contender we can actually weaken with our fiancial power and as Paul Clement said Luis was arguably their most consistent and best player.

I have already said it in the Azpi thread but I do think part of Mourinho's reasoning in buying Luis was to weaken Atletico, as they are (still) a big obstacle in the way of CL glory and Luis was a huge player for them. Otherwise would he really have spent £16m on a 29-year-old LB for back-up when he goes on about FFP so much? I feel really sorry for him as he is IMO our best FB and if he were stil at Atleti he'd be playing against the likes of Bale and Messi instead of whoever it is that plays RW for Bolton/Shrewsbury/Derby.

We've done well against teams who park the bus at Stamford Bridge but we did so last year too (mostly anyway). Our biggest test is the matches away to the smaller sides IMO as that's where we lost the league last season. We've had 3 so far - Burnley where we did well after conceding against an admittedly very poor side, Crystal Palace where we were lucky not to concede in the opening 5 minutes and eventually won largely thanks to a moment of individiual brilliance from Oscar (first goal is so, so important) and yesterday's game where we failed. We've got plenty of these types of games to come, including Newcastle away next week which I'm dreading.

They defended for large parts of the game but conceded very few chances. The beauty of pressing. If they play like that against us it will be very difficult, especially if we're still fatigued.

Yep they defended well and still created better opportunities than we did in the game. In comparison when we park the bus we hardly create any chances at all so I think they did an excellent job. And I agree about Cattermole - whenever an average English player has a good game against a bigger side, the media (Sky especially) ask why they're not playing for England. Remember Sky's hype about Delph last year when he scored against us in the away fixture?

It was very clever tbh - stop him attacking, reduce our width (as Azpi cannot do much at LB) and force Ivanovic to defend 1v1 which he isn't very good at. Not rotating makes it easier for the opposition to figure out exactly how you will play and stifle you, especially when you refuse to change things at half time.

Matic's passing always goes to **** when the game becomes stretched. It's like a vicious cycle - has to cover lots of ground because of the huge open spaces so gets tired, gives the ball away sloppily, has to cover lots of ground trying to get it back, gives the ball away again...

We play them twice in relatively quick succession - at home on Wednesday and then away on New Year's Day.

Because they have been flat-track bullies. They've only faced 3 decent teams (Liverpool, Tottenham and City) and have lost all 3 games. They will drop off the top of the table very quickly this coming month.

That was Zouma I think. Why would he even need him to warm up? Jose was probably going to bring him on in case we scored.

Better to be suspended for Tottenham at home than the bogey game that is Newcastle away. Really hope Cesc/Matic don't pick up yellows on Wednesday because we will need them for next Saturday's game especially.

In 2012? I agree because our squad was poor, the weakest it had been during the Abramovich era. In other games though like the CL SFs against Liverpool during Jose's first spell and Atletico last year, we were the favourites in both I believe, but we still set out only to defend. The criticism was understandable then IMO.

I hear this quite a lot but I don't think the critics are being hypocritical. Sunderland are praised for successfully parking the bus because they are the underdogs against a much better and more expensively asssembled side. We are criticised for parking the bus because we often do it against teams assembled for less than ourselves such as Atletico and Liverpool last year. People will moan about Chelsea either way though, I do agree.

We'll agree to disagree then. And I am partly, why?

I suppose you think Chelsea fans should always say Chelsea deserved to win and blame the BBC/ref/weather for us not winning. Never heard of honesty, eh?

I'm disappointed that they didn't win? no, I said we were lucky to get a draw and that that if they had won, it would not have been undeserved. You're obsessed with trying to find some establishment bias - 'OMG the BBC said Sunderland deserved a draw. How dare they?' Grow up please.

They exexcuted their game plan perfectly, played better and had the better chances. What's so difficult to understand?

you're basing your opinions on the stats that show we dominated possession, had more shots, bla bla, bla. They clearly had the better chances and if their finishing was any decent they'd easily have won.

You think that's biased reporting? They actually deserved to win.

Completely agree. Today's game once again showed that Azpi will offer us very little going forward on the left and Ivanovic cannot defend. How does Jose still not see that Luis is the best all-round full back we have and why pay £16m for him if you're not even going to play him? As ludicrous as it may sound I do reckon part of his thinking in buying Luis was to weaken Atletico since he knows that he was an important player for them and they're a big obstacle in the way of CL glory.