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The Skipper

20. Callum Hudson-Odoi

Started by The Skipper,

1,153 posts in this topic
19 minutes ago, MUTU said:

A laugh? In the meantime Bayern fans feel they're getting milked.

I seriously can't come up with a name of a player signed by Bayern for the first-team squad (i.e. not the reserve team that plays in the 4th division) with less/as much experience as CHO. The risk is great, and as I had previously explained if CHO flops (which, let's face it and be honest, there's quite a decent chance of that happening) we'd struggle to get more than £4m for. We're the club who sold Toni Kroos to Real Madrid for less money than we're offering you for CHO, and the initial fee of £15m is over three times the total fee PSG paid us for Bernat last summer who is in their XI. It's not an insignificant amount of money, so you have to understand why Bayern don't want to carry all of the risks associated with this transfer. The initial fee alone is already over double what Borussia Dortmund paid for Sancho. If it was up to me, Bayern would have pulled out of negotiations a while ago, because clearly Chelsea don't want to sell and Bayern can't afford to just keep upping their bids without limits. We could get an already-developed player for that price, like Thorgan Hazard (Eden's brother) who's available for €42m.

In essence, Bayern are definitely not "having a laugh" but have been seeing red for at least the last 2 bids. Whether or not you agree with the evaluation is a different story, but from Bayern's perspective we're offering you the price of an already-developed player and multiple of times more than what Sancho sold for, also from a rich Premier League club to a Bundesliga club.

I completely understand from your position but from ours £35m isn't huge money and worse still £15m + add ons would struggle to buy top championship players nowadays.

If the papers are to be believed we're getting quoted in excess of £50m for calum Wilson and marko arnautovic.

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18 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I completely understand from your position but from ours £35m isn't huge money and worse still £15m + add ons would struggle to buy top championship players nowadays.

If the papers are to be believed we're getting quoted in excess of £50m for calum Wilson and marko arnautovic.

What, the same Arnautovic that cost Stoke City €2.8m?! No wonder Premier League clubs are raiding the Bundesliga.

But seriously, with the amount we're offering you for CHO, you still could have bought 5 Sanchos from Man City, or you could get Hazard's brother Thorgan (Tottenham, Everton, Liverpool and Borussia Dortmund are after him), and who used to belong to Chelsea in yesteryear.

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2 minutes ago, MUTU said:

But seriously, with the amount we're offering you for CHO, you still could have bought 5 Sanchos from Man City, or you could get Hazard's brother Thorgan (Tottenham, Everton, Liverpool and Borussia Dortmund are after him), and who used to belong to Chelsea in yesteryear.

We don't want to sell CHO though. If you want to pry CHO off our hands, that's not a good enough offer.

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10 minutes ago, Mana said:

We don't want to sell CHO though. If you want to pry CHO off our hands, that's not a good enough offer.

If that's what Chelsea really believe (i.e. assuming it's not part of negotiation tactics to squeeze out a better offer), Bayern should pull out ASAP. We've already signed an 18 year old winger who's faster than CHO (and with more experience) just this month. And he's only cost us £9m... I don't understand this obsession our board have with CHO. It's not a bottomless pit and it's more than possible to get talented players from other leagues for less money.

I get it, you'd rather have your own homegrown talent, I can understand that, but in no way is Bayern's offer low.

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13 minutes ago, MUTU said:

If that's what Chelsea really believe (i.e. assuming it's not part of negotiation tactics to squeeze out a better offer), Bayern should pull out ASAP. We've already signed an 18 year old winger who's faster than CHO (and with more experience) just this month. And he's only cost us £9m... I don't understand this obsession our board have with CHO. It's not a bottomless pit and it's more than possible to get talented players from other leagues for less money.

I get it, you'd rather have your own homegrown talent, I can understand that, but in no way is Bayern's offer low.

It is low. Very low, in fact. You just don’t understand the current market.

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25 minutes ago, Dazzy_Vance said:

It is low. Very low, in fact. You just don’t understand the current market.

It's the same market where Jadon Sancho sold for £7m, Alphonso Davies for £9m and PSG signed 25yo Juan Bernat for their XI for £4.5m. Relative to these, the fee offered by Bayern for CHO is astronomical.

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Bayern now down to 3 fit wingers, one of which is an 18 year old Canadian who joined the club this month. Guess it has some relevance to CHO's potential transfer.

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Point is - Bayern could buy some other great young player, it would be the same for them.

We? We really f*cking need one academy product to succed. That's why we must keep him and give him proper chance. Not just for Odoi, we need to do that for all new Abrahams, Loftus-Cheeks, KDBs (even tho he was not from academy), Solankes, Chalobahs, Akes, Bogas etc. Them being excelent, very good or just good squad players. We must prove that kids HAVE future here, and no money can buy that.

Don't. Do. It. Board.

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18 minutes ago, El P. said:

Point is - Bayern could buy some other great young player, it would be the same for them.

We? We really f*cking need one academy product to succed. That's why we must keep him and give him proper chance. Not just for Odoi, we need to do that for all new Abrahams, Loftus-Cheeks, KDBs (even tho he was not from academy), Solankes, Chalobahs, Akes, Bogas etc. Them being excelent, very good or just good squad players. We must prove that kids HAVE future here, and no money can buy that.

Don't. Do. It. Board.

That's why I said Bayern should pull out. He's way too important for you, if anything for the board to keep the fans happy. You don't want to see another of your youth products having success elsewhere. No one does, but you've had more than your fair share of it. It's no wonder you're playing hardball, but the fact is Bayern's offer is still very high for an 18 year old showing promise as much as CHO. It's just that specifically for Chelsea, that's not enough. You (Chelsea i.e.) don't want to sell CHO and buy a similar 18 year old for the same price, simply because it's not the same thing to you.

Having said that, Bayern are now having injury problems of their own. Both Ribery (who just tore his hamstring) and Robben (recovering) will miss the first Bundesliga match of 2019. Ribery will be out for a while longer and probably miss out against Liverpool. Therefore, expect one final bid from Bayern today or tomorrow.

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1 hour ago, MUTU said:

What, the same Arnautovic that cost Stoke City €2.8m?! No wonder Premier League clubs are raiding the Bundesliga.

But seriously, with the amount we're offering you for CHO, you still could have bought 5 Sanchos from Man City, or you could get Hazard's brother Thorgan (Tottenham, Everton, Liverpool and Borussia Dortmund are after him), and who used to belong to Chelsea in yesteryear.

Certainly for Chelsea fans, and we'd like to hope our board are thinking the same too, there is added importance with CHO. 

I don't know how much you're aware but our academy has been dominant for a number of years, breaking numerous records and being a complete step ahead of everybody else - yet we're not getting any players through into our first team to show for this. John Terry was our last real academy graduate that became a fully fledged first choice player for the club.

We now have a couple in the squad and on the fringes of the first team in Loftus-Cheek and Christensen but we really need a player that is going to break that wall down because I think a lot of people believe that once one makes it through and is successful, there's a higher chance more will follow. CHO is that player that most people have hung their hat on to get established in the first team over the next season or two. That is why I think you'll find for us it's more than the money. Of course we can find someone to replace him and we've already splashed out on Pulisic to come in next season too. But I think if Chelsea gave up this without a fight and sold him it could have a knock on effect with other top academy prospects if one of the 'stars' is allowed to leave.

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Unless it is proven that Bayern DID tap up CHO (and this is a possibility at least) then the 2 main people I blame in all this is Sarri to a point, but especially CHO himself. I mean, wtf, Sarri has now backed him a bit, Eden is 80% or so probably leaving, and he just turned 18. He has been Chels since a wee lad, and everything is breaking his way. How does he repay? By cutting and running, and putting us in a bad sutuation.

If we dont buy a superb LW to replace Eden, and CHO also leaves, we are left with Willian (gag) and an ageing Pedro as only real options, unless we slot Pulisic there. Moses is clearly not good enough, and RLC is not a real winger.

Bad situ, just bad.

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11 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Unless it is proven that Bayern DID tap up CHO (and this is a possibility at least) then the 2 main people I blame in all this is Sarri to a point, but especially CHO himself. I mean, wtf, Sarri has now backed him a bit, Eden is 80% or so probably leaving, and he just turned 18. He has been Chels since a wee lad, and everything is breaking his way. How does he repay? By cutting and running, and putting us in a bad sutuation.

If we dont buy a superb LW to replace Eden, and CHO also leaves, we are left with Willian (gag) and an ageing Pedro as only real options, unless we slot Pulisic there. Moses is clearly not good enough, and RLC is not a real winger.

Bad situ, just bad.

Again with the tapping up. Look, nobody in their right mind does a tap-up. At least not intentionally, you just need to be really forgetful. All you need to do to avoid being accused of tapping up, as per FIFA regulation 18.3, is to inform the holding club in writing that you intend on starting negotiations. That's all. You don't need approval or a confirmation. When Bayern first decided to start negotiations with CHO, all they needed to do was send a fax, email or letter to Chelsea simply saying "We will be holding negotiations with Callum Hodson-Odoi." And then the negotiations can start while the holding club (Chelsea in this case) has no legal right to stop them. I can't think of a reason why Bayern would be so absent-minded as to forget sending this one-liner fax/email/letter to Chelsea's offices before meeting up with CHO or his agent, because ONLY THEN would it be considered tapping up.

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5 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

That is why I think you'll find for us it's more than the money.

LOL Well I think that depends whether you ask a fan or Mz Penny Pincher!

Where he isn't the finished article he does have, what so many on here like saying, 'potential. And he would be important for us in several ways

To show our Yoof that hard work and loyalty can pay off

To show that we are finally willing to use our kids

To show that we prioritize young talent more than money.

But as Ive said before how much playing time will he get next season??

Eden / Pully will take both spots. IF Edens offski we will be replacing him HOPEFULLY with an expensive replacement anyway. And IF Willi9ans still soddin here .....................................................!!!!!!!

So he will HOPEFULLY get more time than this season but will that be enough for him - OR our SUPPORTERS!

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3 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

LOL Well I think that depends whether you ask a fan or Mz Penny Pincher!

Where he isn't the finished article he does have, what so many on here like saying, 'potential. And he would be important for us in several ways

To show our Yoof that hard work and loyalty can pay off

To show that we are finally willing to use our kids

To show that we prioritize young talent more than money.

But as Ive said before how much playing time will he get next season??

Eden / Pully will take both spots. IF Edens offski we will be replacing him HOPEFULLY with an expensive replacement anyway. And IF Willi9ans still soddin here .....................................................!!!!!!!

So he will HOPEFULLY get more time than this season but will that be enough for him - OR our SUPPORTERS!

The issue comes down to what it has been all season which is trust and faith by the manager.

I've mentioned in previous posts why I can understand Sarri trusting in Willian and Pedro over CHO so far,

But similar to RLC, it seems that in time he is trusting him a lot more.

All being equal, Sarri will be here next season with four wide players to use and choose from regularly and CHO would be one of those. I think he is also starting to realise just how much more intense it is playing in England and the volume of games bunched together compared to Italy and the need to rotate and keep some players fresh is vitally important.

We are still talking about an 18 year old. If he did stay at Chelsea, I don't see why by the end of the season he won't have played 15-20 games for Chelsea this season. That's a real solid number and a great starting point to build upon. The club will always be looking to maintain a challenge for everything domestically and playing in Europe. There's a lot of games available and next season I don't see why he can't push on to 25-30 games and keep progressing as such.

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1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

We are still talking about an 18 year old. If he did stay at Chelsea, I don't see why by the end of the season he won't have played 15-20 games for Chelsea this season. That's a real solid number and a great starting point to build upon

Well I know that, you know that, but will his advisers and Bayern who will be blowing smoke up his arse telling him that he deserves to be playing every week, and needs to be playing in the CL every year etc,

I am always one of playing the best player we have available and not just playing yoof for the sake of it.

 

It was only a very short time back that Sarri came out in a interview saying that we had too large of a squad at 25 and we only needed 20/21!! It amazed me when he said it but IF all of those were of the standard they could all be starters then just maybe. But with Sarris rotation he might need even less.

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2 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

Well I know that, you know that, but will his advisers and Bayern who will be blowing smoke up his arse telling him that he deserves to be playing every week, and needs to be playing in the CL every year etc,

I am always one of playing the best player we have available and not just playing yoof for the sake of it.

 

It was only a very short time back that Sarri came out in a interview saying that we had too large of a squad at 25 and we only needed 20/21!! It amazed me when he said it but IF all of those were of the standard they could all be starters then just maybe. But with Sarris rotation he might need even less.

All of us though can pinpoint 3 or 4 players that could be shipped out and don't really need replacing within the squad (Cahill, Drinkwater, Moses for starters) so I can understand that comment. In an ideal world you'd have 22 players, two for every position. The quality of some of your first team, let alone backups is questionable so again it boils down to Sarri trusting that group of say 21, 22 players that he could put any combination in and still be confident there was sufficient quality to try and get a result. At the moment I don't think that trust is there, but it is improving.

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Finally I understand all this confusion with tapping-up. There are different regulations related to tapping up, and they're described really well at https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/sports/item/tapping-up-in-football-complying-with-domestic-and-international-transfers-rules

In a nutshell, the Premier League rules are much more stringent than the FIFA rules. In the former, you need prior written consent of the club under which he is contracted. In the latter, which is the one Bayern are obliged to follow, they simply needed to inform Chelsea that they intend to negotiate with Hudson-Odoi, in writing... Chelsea could have replied with a "don't you even dare" but Bayern could legally negotiate after that.

So it might have been considered tapping-up had it been Tottenham making the approach, but since it was Bayern who needed to follow the FIFA rules, nothing's been broken as long as Bayern informed Chelsea in writing about their intentions beforehand (again, no consent would be required).

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13 minutes ago, MUTU said:

So it might have been considered tapping-up had it been Tottenham making the approach, but since it was Bayern who needed to follow the FIFA rules, nothing's been broken as long as Bayern informed Chelsea in writing about their intentions beforehand (again, no consent would be required).

I think theres legal and moral ways to do things.

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