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the wes

Tiemoué Bakayoko

Started by the wes,

295 posts in this topic
13 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

They're all very different players. Sounds like you just want a name more than anything to me?

Yeah looking closely they are different but the list contains some midfielders who are of the type I want. I want someone who can control the game. Not box to box or dm. Someone like Alonso, Verratti and Kroos. 

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7 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

He's not as good as you're making him out to be or you think he is and also my history in this thread shows I've watched him play several times. It depends, do we want to eat at the top table of the Champions league or what? Bakayoko is a rough diamond who could become a great player. He also lacks qualities (I believe)we need in that role, so it's not worth signing him based off of potential as it would have been if we got, say a Dahoud. It's either we sign a world class or close to world class player to partner Kante or we sign a deep-lying playmaker (who isn't a complete liability without the ball like Fabregas) in the mold of Dahoud. Unfortunately, Bakayoko is neither. 

If we sign Bakayoko as the main prospective partner to Kante, we're going to have very serious problems controlling the midfield against middling Premiership teams away from home. And let's not even talk about how we will get dominated by technically superior European teams in the CL. Is that what you want to see going forward? 

Why? Chelsea don't struggle against those teams with Matic so why would it be different with Baka?

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7 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

He's not as good as you're making him out to be or you think he is and also my history in this thread shows I've watched him play several times. It depends, do we want to eat at the top table of the Champions league or what? Bakayoko is a rough diamond who could become a great player. He also lacks qualities (I believe)we need in that role, so it's not worth signing him based off of potential as it would have been if we got, say a Dahoud. It's either we sign a world class or close to world class player to partner Kante or we sign a deep-lying playmaker (who isn't a complete liability without the ball like Fabregas) in the mold of Dahoud. Unfortunately, Bakayoko is neither. 

If we sign Bakayoko as the main prospective partner to Kante, we're going to have very serious problems controlling the midfield against middling Premiership teams away from home. And let's not even talk about how we will get dominated by technically superior European teams in the CL. Is that what you want to see going forward? 

Glad that you admit that he is a rough diamond that can turn into a great player. Fair enough. I must mention that Dahoud isn't a deep-lying playmaker, he's more of a B2B player. He's often very far up the pitch. We haven't exactly massively struggled to create against middling PL teams this season have we? And that's with Matic next to Kante as well. 

You have to take Conte's system into consideration. What does he want from his CMs?

How does having a supremely technical CM next to Kante exactly help us not to get dominated vs. the bigger European teams? If that's the case, why don't we just play Fabregas in them? If you look at the system Conte is implementing, we don't really create specifically from the middle of the park. If we did need that, he can bring in Fabregas and have him in a trio next to Kante and Bakayoko which would work very well in my opinion. Do you honestly think we won't get dominated in midfield if we have a Fabregas who's a bit more competent defensively? Doesn't work like that. 

Being a technical midfielder does not mean that you instantly get more control. You have to take the system into context. 

People need to look at Conte and see what sort of system he wants to implement. We clearly create far more in the half spaces and out wide than we do from deep in CM. 

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16 minutes ago, nono said:

Yeah looking closely they are different but the list contains some midfielders who are of the type I want. I want someone who can control the game. Not box to box or dm. Someone like Alonso, Verratti and Kroos. 

Fair enough, I was like that before, but don't think a DLP works in Conte's system though.

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6 hours ago, Mufassir08 said:

Fair enough, I agree that dribbling is a huge asset that can be used to counter the press but the thing with Baka is that even though he is a goodish dribbler, there will be plenty of instances during which he'll loose the ball trying to dribble too much or fail to dribble past the press. He is a good dribbler but is he that good a dribbler that we consistently rely on him to break the press via his dribbling against the best in Europe? I've got my doubts but if Conte thinks he's the man for our midfield then he is the man for our midfield.

He averages 1.2 dispossessions this season which is quite low for a CM so, I do think you're underrating him in that aspect. He's very good at shielding the ball, uses his body well in that aspect, so he doesn't often lose the ball.

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18 minutes ago, DYC. said:

Why? Chelsea don't struggle against those teams with Matic so why would it be different with Baka?

We definitely struggle away from home in the midfield. I remember us getting dominated in midfield by our next opponents in the reverse fixture for instance. Watch some of the top European teams and they all have technically gifted players in their midfield and they dominate the tempo of the game. The only time I feel we do this is at Stamford Bridge. 

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17 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Glad that you admit that he is a rough diamond that can turn into a great player. Fair enough. I must mention that Dahoud isn't a deep-lying playmaker, he's more of a B2B player. He's often very far up the pitch. We haven't exactly massively struggled to create against middling PL teams this season have we? And that's with Matic next to Kante as well. 

You have to take Conte's system into consideration. What does he want from his CMs?

How does having a supremely technical CM next to Kante exactly help us not to get dominated vs. the bigger European teams? If that's the case, why don't we just play Fabregas in them? If you look at the system Conte is implementing, we don't really create specifically from the middle of the park. If we did need that, he can bring in Fabregas and have him in a trio next to Kante and Bakayoko which would work very well in my opinion. Do you honestly think we won't get dominated in midfield if we have a Fabregas who's a bit more competent defensively? Doesn't work like that. 

Being a technical midfielder does not mean that you instantly get more control. You have to take the system into context. 

People need to look at Conte and see what sort of system he wants to implement. We clearly create far more in the half spaces and out wide than we do from deep in CM. 

Dahoud is a bit of both really. I don't think I can call him a box to box midfielder (that term has lost its original meaning). I think it's best to call him a central midfielder. 

You have to take Conte's system into consideration. What does he want from his CMs?

I do take Conte's system into consideration of course. But when I see rumours (and I presume they are slightly more than that) of links to Verratti and Dahoud, it leads to believe Conte is slightly more flexible in the qualities he's looking for in Kante's next partner.

How does having a supremely technical CM next to Kante exactly help us not to get dominated vs. the bigger European teams? If that's the case, why don't we just play Fabregas in them?

I'm not sure the point you're making here. The reason why Fabregas doesn't play is because he a has next to zero footballing engine and is constantly cut out by opposition runners in midfield. He just doesn't have the physical attributes to keep up. Dahoud has the engine and the technique? How will that help us? It will certainly help with quicker ball circulation, ability to spot passes quicker and execute them, improve counter attacks, improve our ability to build attacks from the back (when say, Dahoud drops deep like I've seen him do many times Fabregas is terrible this). You're literally asking what benefits does a Kroos/Koke type player have over a Nzonzi/Kondogbia type player? I think it's obvious.

I just feel we don't need what is effectively a defensive midfielder with Kante already there. If Kante is as brilliant as everyone says he is, then we can be a bit more ambitious in choosing his partner? 

People need to look at Conte and see what sort of system he wants to implement. We clearly create far more in the half spaces and out wide than we do from deep in CM.

It has nothing to do with creation but control. We can't pass the ball out of the back vs a good press as some of the top teams have shown. We've struggled to control the midfield away from home in far too many games for my liking since November, becoming a bit of a counter-attacking team. We've invariably won thanks to our superior quality and defending. 

 

 

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if it's true in conte's system he need a worldclass (or even) good deep lying midfielder, the option is only Verratti or Thiago Alcantara. but,,can we get them???

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59 minutes ago, Gilvorak said:

Sorry but I don't rate this guy. We need to pair Matic with an athletic version of Fabregas.

We need to pair Kanté with someone, not Matic. We'll buy someone instead of Matic IMO.

 

37 minutes ago, blu35_army said:

if it's true in conte's system he need a worldclass (or even) good deep lying midfielder, the option is only Verratti or Thiago Alcantara. but,,can we get them???


 

I think we need a destroyer, not a playmaker. Fábregas is an amazing player, still he hardly ever plays, while Matic who is clumsy as fuck is a starter.  

 

Hazard, Costa and Pedro are all out on attack, Moses and Alonso attack a lot too, our central midfielders must serve the stability.

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2 hours ago, Gilvorak said:

 We need to pair Kante with an athletic version of Fabregas.

It's hard to find players like that what about Weigl or Tielemans?? 

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3 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Dahoud is a bit of both really. I don't think I can call him a box to box midfielder (that term has lost its original meaning). I think it's best to call him a central midfielder. 

You have to take Conte's system into consideration. What does he want from his CMs?

I do take Conte's system into consideration of course. But when I see rumours (and I presume they are slightly more than that) of links to Verratti and Dahoud, it leads to believe Conte is slightly more flexible in the qualities he's looking for in Kante's next partner.

How does having a supremely technical CM next to Kante exactly help us not to get dominated vs. the bigger European teams? If that's the case, why don't we just play Fabregas in them?

I'm not sure the point you're making here. The reason why Fabregas doesn't play is because he a has next to zero footballing engine and is constantly cut out by opposition runners in midfield. He just doesn't have the physical attributes to keep up. Dahoud has the engine and the technique? How will that help us? It will certainly help with quicker ball circulation, ability to spot passes quicker and execute them, improve counter attacks, improve our ability to build attacks from the back (when say, Dahoud drops deep like I've seen him do many times Fabregas is terrible this). You're literally asking what benefits does a Kroos/Koke type player have over a Nzonzi/Kondogbia type player? I think it's obvious.

I just feel we don't need what is effectively a defensive midfielder with Kante already there. If Kante is as brilliant as everyone says he is, then we can be a bit more ambitious in choosing his partner? 

People need to look at Conte and see what sort of system he wants to implement. We clearly create far more in the half spaces and out wide than we do from deep in CM.

It has nothing to do with creation but control. We can't pass the ball out of the back vs a good press as some of the top teams have shown. We've struggled to control the midfield away from home in far too many games for my liking since November, becoming a bit of a counter-attacking team. We've invariably won thanks to our superior quality and defending. 

 

 

Isn't the very definition of 'a bit of both' box to box? I guess if you wanted a good term for it, I'd call Dahoud a mobile regista. 

We've been rumoured to be after players like Bakayoko more so than the type of players you're looking at. Think Vidal, Nainggolan. Kessie. That's the type of player Conte wants in my mind. N'Zonzi and Kondogbia are DMs. Different profile to Bakayoko. Bakayoko is more akin to Vidal and Nainggolan. 

I don't know how many times I have to say either, but Kante isn't a DM. Kante is a destroyer. He wins the ball all over the pitch, not just in his own half. We don't need a deep lying playmaker when we're playing with 3 CBs, essentially Luiz fulfils that role anyway. 

We haven't struggled in midfield because we don't have a deep playmaker, explain how? Conte's system doesn't really require one to be in midfield. The central midfielders in Conte's system aren't there to 'control' per se. They're there to provide a base for the WBs and forwards to instigate quick attacks. 

You need to understand that Conte's system isn't based on possession. It's based on his style of positional play. And his CMs are more of an engine room than controllers for him. What we really need is better quality in our wing backs and another CB at the back that's comfortable with the ball ahead of Cahill. The problems we had versus City for example wasn't a lack of control in the centre of the pitch. They targeted Alonso and Cahill!

If Conte wants possession he usually introduces a third CM. We can still do that with Cesc. Bakayoko - Fabregas - Kante is a nice midfield. 

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At Juventus Conte had Marchisio, Pirlo and Vidal and Pogba. All four are technically gifted players. Put Kante in that group and he's easily the worst technically. Add Bakayoko and the disparity is even worse.  It's not a possession based system but it's not a system of athletic runners either. Bakayoko and Kante is just too much imo but that's just my opinion. I'm interested to see what he actually does. 

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all this talk about Bakayoko, when all i dream about is seeing Nainggolan partnering Kante in midfield, and Alexis up top to partner Hazard and Costa, say what you will but this lineup would kick ass in Europe:

 

                           Courtois

              Azpi       Cahill         Luiz

Moses                                           Alonso

                  Nainggolan      Kante

Hazard                                           Sanchez

                              Costa

 

Now depending on who comes and who leaves, we would have a sick midfield, if Cesc and Matic stick around, and also William and Pedro in attack, add one more signing or 2 for the center back and wing back positions and we are set. I know this is not fantasy football, but we do have the resources to get all our targets, but succeeding in getting them is another story. Cheers

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2 hours ago, the wes said:

It's hard to find players like that what about Weigl or Tielemans?? 

Tielemans would be ideal but I don't think Conte is interested in developing a player instead of buying the finished product.

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On 01/04/2017 at 1:14 AM, Johnnyeye said:

all this talk about Bakayoko, when all i dream about is seeing Nainggolan partnering Kante in midfield, and Alexis up top to partner Hazard and Costa, say what you will but this lineup would kick ass in Europe:

 

                           Courtois

              Azpi       Cahill         Luiz

Moses                                           Alonso

                  Nainggolan      Kante

Hazard                                           Sanchez

                              Costa

 

Now depending on who comes and who leaves, we would have a sick midfield, if Cesc and Matic stick around, and also William and Pedro in attack, add one more signing or 2 for the center back and wing back positions and we are set. I know this is not fantasy football, but we do have the resources to get all our targets, but succeeding in getting them is another story. Cheers

I'm begining to think that Radja will actually be coming.

He started off saying he was very comfortable,loved where he was etc. Now hes saying his fave player is Eden and he has friends at Chelsea.

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i will be over the moon if we manage to bring in Sanchez and Nainggolan


with these two,,i don't understand if we can't even reach the CL final. so,,let's hope...

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

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9 minutes ago, blu35_army said:

 


with these two,,i don't understand if we can't even reach the CL final. so,,let's hope...

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
 

 

just check my line up in my previous post, pretty sick

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2 hours ago, Johnnyeye said:

just check my line up in my previous post, pretty sick

Not at all impressed by that line up. It would achieve barely any more in Europe than any line up we've used this year. Since there is virtually no chance of that XI being our regular starters next season, we'll never know for sure so you and I can just enjoy arguing about it.

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