MUTU 37 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Jype said: That's not how any of it works though. For example Pulisic doesn't have any "minimum amount of matches" clause from now till the end of the season, Dortmund are free to do whatever the hell they want with him till he actually joins Chelsea in the summer. The arrogance of Bayern really is unrivaled, even the fans think everyone else will just bend over and accept whatever the mighty Bayern wish to happen. It's irrelevant comparing Pulisic to CHO. Pulisic has already proven himself and CHO has only really started getting playing time after flirting with a move. 3 minutes ago, kc_blue said: Frankly it sounds like with these conditions that you are trying to strong arm us into a sale on your conditions. He has a contract good for another 18 months. The fact is it doesn't suit us to sell him now. In the summer that may change. If you are interested in the summer then the clubs can talk. If you have to sign him now, well, I'm not the club buy I'd tell you to take a hike. Chelsea not wanting to accept these conditions would be an indication of dishonesty in their intentions, in which case if I was Bayern I'd pull out of negotiations immediately. Of course that suits no one really at this point... you'll get to keep a disgruntled player while we end up without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc_blue 265 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, MUTU said: Chelsea not wanting to accept these conditions would be an indication of dishonesty in their intentions, in which case if I was Bayern I'd pull out of negotiations immediately. Of course that suits no one really at this point... you'll get to keep a disgruntled player while we end up without him. I don't think there's any dishonesty in their intentions. Their intentions are not to sell. If that changes in the summer so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,213 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 He can be disgruntled in the stands next to Donkeywater for the next year and a half. I dont want him near the pitch. I now trust him as far as I can spit into the Stockholm winter wind. Dazzy_Vance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTU 37 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said: It doesn't matter whether Bayern or CHO believe it. Both parties can believe whatever they want. He's got 18 months left on his contract and if we don't feel like we can sell him this winter, then we don't have to. If Bayern and CHO find this unacceptable, they are welcome to work out a deal where they buy us a replacement up front. Preferably English as that's worth quite a bit to us. How about Sancho? Not selling him this winter can be absolutely arranged without any kind of financial liability. In fact, it's currently what is happening right now. You can rest assured that this is the same as option 1 (i.e. Bayern do not get CHO). Here's why: - If he does well, Bayern would be priced out - If he doesn't, well, why would Bayern still want him? - If he does OKish, Bayern MIGHT come with a fresh bid, but it'd definitely be considerably lower than 39M euro, and you guys will just refuse it. Realistically, I don't see a contract being signed next summer with Bayern an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc_blue 265 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, MUTU said: Chelsea not wanting to accept these conditions would be an indication of dishonesty in their intentions, in which case if I was Bayern I'd pull out of negotiations immediately. Of course that suits no one really at this point... you'll get to keep a disgruntled player while we end up without him. You seem to be working from the believe that the club is open to negotiations now. You seem to be saying they are agreeing a deal now for a summer move. That's not at all what I'm proposing. I'm saying they should keep CHO, who has a contract for another 18 months, and play him the rest of the season. If come summer we are open to selling then we can negotiate a deal then, not now. Sideshow Luiz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petre.ispirescu 4,928 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Don't want to ruin the 'who is tapping who' debate, but to answer the German fella - listen mate it's my opinion only, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know I'm not an expert otherwise I'd work for some scouting network, but there is something special about Hudson-Odoi, you see wingers every now and then like I don't know, Ben Arfa, Depay? and there is tons of other examples, bags of potential, some flicks etc. but still there is something telling you they won't cut it. Well it does not apply with young Callum I can tell you the kid is a superstar in the making and the day he leaves it is going to be a sad day for me and a failure from the club IMO. He's not bigger than the club and when the club does not challenge for the title mid season, nor the Champions League and his competition is Willian and Pedro, than the kid must be given a regular spot and see what he's all about until summer. What if this unrests Willian and Pedro mid season? Well nobody gives a damn about them and I'd bite my hand if they are still here come August. MUTU 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,213 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 This shit is surely spilling over into Hazard's head. Barella's too, per new reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jype 6,398 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, MUTU said: It's unfair on CHO and Bayern having to wait 6 months to unite on the basis of Chelsea needing him but then not actually playing him. If Chelsea are serious about wanting to play him, then Chelsea should consider this option. How the fuck is it "unfair" that a player is expected to continue representing the club where he is under contract with? DDA and Sideshow Luiz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superblue 6,372 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I'm not going to get involved in anymore arguing over how Bayern are interpreted but I think you'll find that quite a lot of non Bayern fans have the same viewpoint whether you want to admit it or not. My feeling is that CHO isn't yet good enough to play for Bayern. He has more than enough potential to become a star but I honestly don't understand the lure for him to go to Bayern given the options they already have in the wide areas (even once Robben and Ribery have left) and it's very possible they'll look to replace those two players with a real top winger in the summer. This would leave 3 or 4 players fighting for the other spot. If he's been promised a certain amount of game time by Bayern I think that it's also a silly move for him. He'll be under immense pressure given the price tag and the hype around him rather than being given the chance to develop and learn he'll be expected to perform immediately which I'm not sure if he's yet ready for that level of expectation from a team expected to win everything domestically and challenge deep in Europe. With the greatest respect if this was a team like Leipzig or Leverkusen the next level down I think it would be a good move for him to learn his trade and develop at a slower rate without the number of eyes and expectation on him immediately. But at present I struggle to see Bayern being a better option than Chelsea where he is on the cusp of playing regularly already at the age of 18. We too have two ageing wide players and the other a superstar likely to leave in the summer. The opportunity I believe is here for him if he wants/wanted it. Vesper and kc_blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTU 37 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, kc_blue said: You seem to be working from the believe that the club is open to negotiations now. You seem to be saying they are agreeing a deal now for a summer move. That's not at all what I'm proposing. I'm saying they should keep CHO, who has a contract for another 18 months, and play him the rest of the season. If come summer we are open to selling then we can negotiate a deal then, not now. Gotcha, I think you'll find your answer here then: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideshow Luiz 2,310 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, MUTU said: The issue is the risk that CHO and Bayern see if they agree to sign a contract for summer, that Chelsea would just throw him in the stands and he'd never see the pitch again, basically what he's done for most of this season. If you want to keep him for 6 more months on the basis of 'needing him', then you should put your money where your mouth is and be held financially liable if he's not played purely for tactical reasons. It's unfair on CHO and Bayern having to wait 6 months to unite on the basis of Chelsea needing him but then not actually playing him. If Chelsea are serious about wanting to play him, then Chelsea should consider this option. Except that we don't HAVE to do any of that. Has no one ever aid "no" to you before? Did you try to try to find a way to make them liable for saying "no"? If we feel we need him, why do we have to sell him? And why in God's name would anyone make an agreement like the one you are proposing? "Let's keep things as they are now, but make me monetarily liable if you're not happy enough". I'll tell you what. Let's take your deal and turn it the other way. If Bayern and CHO don't think he's needed. How about you buy him for 50M, and in every match where we would have played him, you give us another 10M. Put your money where your mouth is (when I say 'your' I obviously mean Bayern Munich) Like I said to you before, we need him. If Bayern and/or CHO don't believe that's fine. If neither party can wait until the summer, Bayern can make an offer that we couldn't afford to turn down. Give us Lewandowski, Alaba, and Thiago on loan until the end of the season, and buy us Icardi in the summer. I'm sure we'd say yes to that. Vesper and kc_blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTU 37 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said: I'm not going to get involved in anymore arguing over how Bayern are interpreted but I think you'll find that quite a lot of non Bayern fans have the same viewpoint whether you want to admit it or not. My feeling is that CHO isn't yet good enough to play for Bayern. He has more than enough potential to become a star but I honestly don't understand the lure for him to go to Bayern given the options they already have in the wide areas (even once Robben and Ribery have left) and it's very possible they'll look to replace those two players with a real top winger in the summer. This would leave 3 or 4 players fighting for the other spot. If he's been promised a certain amount of game time by Bayern I think that it's also a silly move for him. He'll be under immense pressure given the price tag and the hype around him rather than being given the chance to develop and learn he'll be expected to perform immediately which I'm not sure if he's yet ready for that level of expectation from a team expected to win everything domestically and challenge deep in Europe. With the greatest respect if this was a team like Leipzig or Leverkusen the next level down I think it would be a good move for him to learn his trade and develop at a slower rate without the number of eyes and expectation on him immediately. But at present I struggle to see Bayern being a better option than Chelsea where he is on the cusp of playing regularly already at the age of 18. We too have two ageing wide players and the other a superstar likely to leave in the summer. The opportunity I believe is here for him if he wants/wanted it. I worry about this as well. Renato Sanches also came with high expectations but didn't really get a fair chance. Then he got loaned out to Swansea where he looked like a real flop. He's looking better each match since he came back but he's still not really getting much playing time. I fear it'd be much of the same for CHO too. I think everyone's had the Sancho success story get to their heads. Superblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamcfc 182 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, MUTU said: Gotcha, I think you'll find your answer here then: So Option 1 is your answer. The reasons WHY , all benefit Chelsea, so jog on with your terms and conditions lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTU 37 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said: Except that we don't HAVE to do any of that. Has no one ever aid "no" to you before? Did you try to try to find a way to make them liable for saying "no"? If we feel we need him, why do we have to sell him? And why in God's name would anyone make an agreement like the one you are proposing? "Let's keep things as they are now, but make me monetarily liable if you're not happy enough". I'll tell you what. Let's take your deal and turn it the other way. If Bayern and CHO don't think he's needed. How about you buy him for 50M, and in every match where we would have played him, you give us another 10M. Put your money where your mouth is (when I say 'your' I obviously mean Bayern Munich) Like I said to you before, we need him. If Bayern and/or CHO don't believe that's fine. If neither party can wait until the summer, Bayern can make an offer that we couldn't afford to turn down. Give us Lewandowski, Alaba, and Thiago on loan until the end of the season, and buy us Icardi in the summer. I'm sure we'd say yes to that. Hence why I said it'd be the same as option 1, which would be Bayern not getting him. I realistically see Bayern getting him in January or at most on a free in 2020 (which I really doubt). I'd be surprised if we get him in summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,213 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said: Give us Lewandowski, Alaba, and Thiago on loan until the end of the season, and buy us Icardi in the summer. I'm sure we'd say yes to that. I like this. Sideshow Luiz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTU 37 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, dreamcfc said: So Option 1 is your answer. The reasons WHY , all benefit Chelsea, so jog on with your terms and conditions lol. Assuming he doesn't hold contempt against you, or vice versa, and flop. I wouldn't like a disgruntled player in the team, and is why I wanted Bayern to sell Lewandowski when he wanted to leave, but eventually he claimed he's no longer interested in leaving so that did work out, but it's not always going to be such a success story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideshow Luiz 2,310 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Vesper said: I like this. And Sancho too. I didn't include him because clubs don't typically sell players they need in the winter. We have to replace the HG status with another English player. It's not crazy in a world where only Bayern Munich and CHO get everything they want. Vesper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamcfc 182 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, MUTU said: Assuming he doesn't hold contempt against you, or vice versa, and flop. I wouldn't like a disgruntled player in the team, and is why I wanted Bayern to sell Lewandowski when he wanted to leave, but eventually he claimed he's no longer interested in leaving so that did work out, but it's not always going to be such a success story. Reading too many newspapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideshow Luiz 2,310 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, MUTU said: Hence why I said it'd be the same as option 1, which would be Bayern not getting him. I realistically see Bayern getting him in January or at most on a free in 2020 (which I really doubt). I'd be surprised if we get him in summer. If you really want him and he really wants you, a summer move isn't out of the question. If neither of you want it anymore, then this is all moot. If I met a girl and I told her how much I loved her and she's perfect for me, blah blah blah, but she said she couldn't go out with me this week, I'd have to wait until next week. Well, if I said no, I can't wait that long, then I think we'd have to question the sincerity of my interest. kc_blue and Superblue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTU 37 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said: If you really want him and he really wants you, a summer move isn't out of the question. If neither of you want it anymore, then this is all moot. If I met a girl and I told her how much I loved her and she's perfect for me, blah blah blah, but she said she couldn't go out with me this week, I'd have to wait until next week. Well, if I said no, I can't wait that long, then I think we'd have to question the sincerity of my interest. You meet a girl and told her you loved her and she's perfect for you blah bla blah but along comes her BOYFRIEND and tells you "hey even though she wants you, she's still mine and maybe I want to f**k her, maybe not, for 6 months. Then you can have her after I've finished. Oh, and you need to pay me, a lot of money" Kidding of course, since relationships don't have contracts. You really can't draw parallels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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