Clockwork 1,794 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Rekin said: To me football IQ (which is a fluffy term, I agree) means a player with good decision-making on the pitch, including a good awareness of his surrounding. Some players just put their head down and make a break for it, others will hold the ball forever even though there are players in better positions. If we talk about advanced positions, then to me a smart player can quickly spot a run from another player (or see the correct run himself), knows when to try to take on a man versus just trying to hold it, knows how to gather the attention of the other team to allow space for others and similar actions like that. It basically comes down to a player that is able to achieve synergy with the rest of the team. Some players have this "football IQ", but lack the technical skill to make the most of it (Costa to me, he was not stupid but was not a very polished player). Others dont have it and try too much to do everything themselves (my opinion of Lukaku). I sometimes feel like Makelele is a good example of high football IQ. A player who didnt have to rely on strength to be an effective anchor but instead had an excellent awareness that allowed him to often anticipate where he needed to be. This is what i was talking about a few pages back. This is ridiculous, you are equating decision making on the ball with general football IQ. Based on what you wrote, than you probably think Christino Ronaldo is not a player with high football IQ. That would be stupid because, off the ball Ronaldo is the smartest player in the planet. A player can struggle with on the ball decision making, and still be a smart player in other aspects. Also a player can be a great decision maker on the ball, and lack intelligence elsewhere. For example Ozil, very intelligent on the ball but other aspects he seriously the lacks intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYC. 7,542 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Clockwork said: This is what i was talking about a few pages back. This is ridiculous, you are equating decision making on the ball with general football IQ. Based on what you wrote, than you probably think Christino Ronaldo is not a player with high football IQ. That would be stupid because, off the ball Ronaldo is the smartest player in the planet. A player can struggle with on the ball decision making, and still be a smart player in other aspects. Also a player can be a great decision maker on the ball, and lack intelligence elsewhere. For example Ozil, very intelligent on the ball but other aspects he seriously the lacks intelligence. I agree with your overall point. But I have to ask about that final part, in which areas does Ozil lack intelligence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekin 835 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, Clockwork said: This is what i was talking about a few pages back. This is ridiculous, you are equating decision making on the ball with general football IQ. Based on what you wrote, than you probably think Christino Ronaldo is not a player with high football IQ. That would be stupid because, off the ball Ronaldo is the smartest player in the planet. A player can struggle with on the ball decision making, and still be a smart player in other aspects. Also a player can be a great decision maker on the ball, and lack intelligence elsewhere. For example Ozil, very intelligent on the ball but other aspects he seriously the lacks intelligence. No I did not. I even gave the example of someone who has a high football IQ based on his skills without the ball. Did you read what you responded to? I gave examples of hold-up play, skills with the ball and then skills without the ball. I gave an example of someone I thought played smart with the ball (Morata), someone who played smart without the ball (Makelele) and then someone who I felt was in between (Costa). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara 15,149 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 This is what i was talking about a few pages back. This is ridiculous, you are equating decision making on the ball with general football IQ. Based on what you wrote, than you probably think Christino Ronaldo is not a player with high football IQ. That would be stupid because, off the ball Ronaldo is the smartest player in the planet. A player can struggle with on the ball decision making, and still be a smart player in other aspects. Also a player can be a great decision maker on the ball, and lack intelligence elsewhere. For example Ozil, very intelligent on the ball but other aspects he seriously the lacks intelligence. Seriously that people can't say when a player is smart? We came down to having to explain what a smart player is? It's the ability to read the game. Whether moving, making decisions, predicting the next moves by his team and opponents, understanding the underlying of tactics and systems, using tools from his repertoire accordingly. Making decisions also include a range of things. There are many different kind of intelligences, endless studies and theories showing that. IQ is a term and concept that most scientists, psychologists, teachers and psychiatrists don't use anymore because it's limited, misleading and nearly useless. We analyse the skills that make them better understand things such as logical thinking (related to math), music, space and directions, languages, science, emotions, interpersonal relationships, sports, etc. To say it in a crude way a person can be dumb to some of those things (I didn't list them all) and a genius in others. Seriously guys, you may disagree with her assessment on Lukaku, but don't twist her words or pretend intelligence applied to football doesn't exist. I understand that maybe many of you didn't know the scientific aspect I explained in the previous paragraph and I'm not saying you should, but of course you have the notion that a player can be smart or not football wise. When did the people in this forum start turning the blind eye? @peace. you have been summoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork 1,794 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, DYC. said: I agree with your overall point. But I have to ask about that final part, in which areas does Ozil lack intelligence? I do not think he is intelligent player tactically, he is very intelligent from an attacking standpoint when given complete freedom. But when given more assignments and asked to main positional sense he struggles with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skipper 20,609 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 43 minutes ago, Barbara said: It's the ability to read the game. Whether moving, making decisions, predicting the next moves by his team and opponents, understanding the underlying of tactics and systems, using tools from his repertoire accordingly. Making decisions also include a range of things. Would you say Romelu's ability to read the game is poor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wes 7,212 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Antonio Rudiger will be having nightmares about facing Alvaro Morata in Chelsea training http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/20/why-antonio-rudiger-will-be-having-nightmares-about-facing-alvaro-morata-in-chelsea-training-6793702/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireBlue 3,279 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Any chance of this happening tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skipper 20,609 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Rekin said: No I did not. I even gave the example of someone who has a high football IQ based on his skills without the ball. Did you read what you responded to? I gave examples of hold-up play, skills with the ball and then skills without the ball. I gave an example of someone I thought played smart with the ball (Morata), someone who played smart without the ball (Makelele) and then someone who I felt was in between (Costa). I think Lukaku is in between (using your theory) like Costa as well personally. If you get Romelu into the box for example - he's an absolute killer and will finish off chances. His "IQ" in the box is one of the reasons why he scores a lot. You could say that Romelu is more intelligent in the box than Morata, whereas it's the other way for Alvaro for example. Would that be a false statement? The term is too broad imo. There are areas on the pitch Romelu is smarter in than Morata too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polo7 3,496 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, BluesMadLad said: Any chance of this happening tonight? I read tomorrow somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara 15,149 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Would you say Romelu's ability to read the game is poor? Totally not my point, I didn't assess him. He's poor in some of the things I listed, decent in others, but his best skills IMO have nothing to do with being a smart player.He knows how to use his body and strength well, his positioning is good, but far from special, but his decision making lacks in certain circumstances, his technique too (and while having this doesn't make any player smart, players using theirs in a special way certainly does). He rarely spots a player, a run, his link up too is okay, nothing smartly special. He does the basics very well, but no, in my concept of smart player, he isn't. He's just okay (not saying he's stupid). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, BluesMadLad said: Any chance of this happening tonight? Read the 4th post above yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 What does Alvaro Morata bring to Chelsea and is he a better option than Romelu Lukaku? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireBlue 3,279 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Jason said: Read the 4th post above yours. Sorry nothing was showing up for me on your posts, they was blank. My bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skipper 20,609 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Just now, Barbara said: Totally not my point, I didn't assess him. He's poor in some of the things I listed, decent in others, but his best skills IMO have nothing to do with being a smart player. He knows how to use his body and strength well, his positioning is good, but far from special, but his decision making lacks in certain circumstances, his technique too (and while having this doesn't make any player smart, players using theirs in a special way certainly does). He rarely spots a player, a run, his link up too is okay, nothing smartly special. He does the basics very well, but no, in my concept of smart player, he isn't. He's just okay (not saying he's stupid). I agree with this. My problem however is - if you watch the video of that interview, she tries to insinuate that Romelu is a dumb footballer and doesn't have that intelligence. I'm disputing it - he has smart aspects to his play, especially in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickpassnmove 924 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, DYC. said: I agree with your overall point. But I have to ask about that final part, in which areas does Ozil lack intelligence? Do us all a favor and avoid discussing this underwhelming player on this forum. How nice it is that we have Fabregas and not him; we need not bring him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weckerz 3,781 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Excited for the season, finally a striker who can combine with our attacking mids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara 15,149 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 29 minutes ago, Jason said: What does Alvaro Morata bring to Chelsea and is he a better option than Romelu Lukaku? @The Skipper this article is brilliant and the author also qualify Morata as having "huge intelligence" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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