Hotseat 12: The Skipper

[Weckerz 3,781]

Black Pete is black because he enters our houses trough chimneys, that's what basically all the kids get told here in Belgium anyway. There was no racial issue at all, before some stupid American reporter threw a tantrum a few years ago.

Sorry to derail your thread Skipper

[Stingray 9,441]

Black Pete is black because he enters our houses trough chimneys, that's what basically all the kids get told here in Belgium anyway. There was no racial issue at all, before some stupid American reporter threw a tantrum a few years ago.

Sorry to derail your thread Skipper

True .... was a bit of a debate here as well on it.

[Kieran. 6,317]

@The Skipper, Blackface isn't offensive in Australia. A while ago there was a sketch on TV that had a group of performers in black face dancing to Michael Jackson, no one in Aus cared but a bunch of Americans and Canadians threw a wobbly about it.

Blackface is always offensive..you're deluded if you think otherwise

[The Skipper 20,609]

[The Skipper 20,609]

Interesting, in Indonesia we have the zwarte piet as well. Alot of Indonesian words came from the Dutch, hmm like kulkas(fridge), resleting(zipper), kopling(gear shift in cars, clutch?), arloji(watch), kamar, etc. I call my grandparents opa and oma as well, om & tante for uncle and aunty. There might be some differences in spelling compared to real Dutch! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_loanwords_in_Indonesian#From_Dutch

Oh wow, that's very interesting. Never knew that. I guess I can add Indonesia to 'countries I'd like to visit' now... Tell me a little bit about your country... What are the main attractions and such?

[The Skipper 20,609]

Black Pete is black because he enters our houses trough chimneys, that's what basically all the kids get told here in Belgium anyway. There was no racial issue at all, before some stupid American reporter threw a tantrum a few years ago.

Sorry to derail your thread Skipper

That's interesting, the main debate seems to be however that Black Pete has atypical 'black features', hence why some think it's derogatory. Some extreme people try to relate it to slavery? As in the Piets are Sinterklaas' slaves... Funny I know. I personally don't have much of a problem with it though, although I can see why some may find it a bit offensive... But maybe that's because I'm not permanently located in NL anymore, so my views on it aren't worth much IMO...

[The Skipper 20,609]

@The Skipper, Blackface isn't offensive in Australia. A while ago there was a sketch on TV that had a group of performers in black face dancing to Michael Jackson, no one in Aus cared but a bunch of Americans and Canadians threw a wobbly about it.

Blackface has it's similarities with Black Pete but I think Blackface sketches are definitely more offensive IMO, since they do try to imitate stereotypical black actions and such, with a typical one being the 'happy guy from the plantation' sketch which used to be huge in America when slavery was big. It might be due to the fact that there isn't a huge black population in Australia (I think), as compared to other countries.

[Spike 12,049]

Blackface is always offensive..you're deluded if you think otherwise

Except when there is no one around to be offended by it...like in Australia. Maybe some people are, I can't speak for everyone but black face is a non-issue here.

If I were in a room alone and said the 'n' word, would it be offensive? No, becuase there isn't anyone to be offended by it.

[Spike 12,049]

Blackface has it's similarities with Black Pete but I think Blackface sketches are definitely more offensive IMO, since they do try to imitate stereotypical black actions and such, with a typical one being the 'happy guy from the plantation' sketch which used to be huge in America when slavery was big. It might be due to the fact that there isn't a huge black population in Australia (I think), as compared to other countries.

It was a pretty awful sketch mind you and I understand why people would be offended but I was trying to state that in different cultures things are very different. It was five men in black face dancing like Michael Jackson and another painted white singing Michael Jackson. They didn't portray Africans in a negative manner, there wasn't any negative stereotpyes portrayed, there was an offensive image shown but the way Africans were portrayed wasn't in a negative light. The only reason it could be construed as racist is the connotations it has with the 'happy guy from the plantation', which it shares no similarites with outside of black painted skin and curly hair (there was no big lips). If it were examined on its own as an independant phenonmenon it would just be defined as an unfunny comedy sketch.

Australia has a growing African population that is relatively free of the stigmas that are associated with African-Americans. Australia is often viewed as a racist country but after traveling to America I can safely say that Australia is very much an accepting country with high amounts of multi-culturalism. There have been issues in the past and one I can blame on the American media. Pre-9/11 there was almost no anti Middle-East and Muslim sentiment and this is verified by older Arabic-Australians. There integration was seamless but after 9/11 and a series of brutal gang-rapes committed by young Muslim men targetting white women, there were riots, violence, gang fights and everything between.

[The Skipper 20,609]

It was a pretty awful sketch mind you and I understand why people would be offended but I was trying to state that in different cultures things are very different. It was five men in black face dancing like Michael Jackson and another painted white singing Michael Jackson. They didn't portray Africans in a negative manner, there wasn't any negative stereotpyes portrayed, there was an offensive image shown but the way Africans were portrayed wasn't in a negative light. The only reason it could be construed as racist is the connotations it has with the 'happy guy from the plantation', which it shares no similarites with outside of black painted skin and curly hair (there was no big lips). If it were examined on its own as an independant phenonmenon it would just be defined as an unfunny comedy sketch.

Australia has a growing African population that is relatively free of the stigmas that are associated with African-Americans. Australia is often viewed as a racist country but after traveling to America I can safely say that Australia is very much an accepting country with high amounts of multi-culturalism. There have been issues in the past and one I can blame on the American media. Pre-9/11 there was almost no anti Middle-East and Muslim sentiment and this is verified by older Arabic-Australians. There integration was seamless but after 9/11 and a series of brutal gang-rapes committed by young Muslim men targetting white women, there were riots, violence, gang fights and everything between.

Fair enough. Very informative, thanks Spike.

[Weckerz 3,781]

That's interesting, the main debate seems to be however that Black Pete has atypical 'black features', hence why some think it's derogatory. Some extreme people try to relate it to slavery? As in the Piets are Sinterklaas' slaves... Funny I know. I personally don't have much of a problem with it though, although I can see why some may find it a bit offensive... But maybe that's because I'm not permanently located in NL anymore, so my views on it aren't worth much IMO...

Yea I can definately see why certain people would find it offensive without knowing the backgrounds of this tradition. I'm just annoyed by the fact it became a racial issue because of one reporter finding it racist.

Sinterklaas en Zwarte Piet are like Santa in the US. The stuff that makes kids happy, I see no reason to spoil this with stupid racist accusations.

[Beepu 1,714]

Oh wow, that's very interesting. Never knew that. I guess I can add Indonesia to 'countries I'd like to visit' now... Tell me a little bit about your country... What are the main attractions and such?

Well the Dutch were in Indonesia for almost 350 years until 1945. But for some reason nobody speaks Dutch here other than the older generations of educated people, but was told that at least 20% of Indonesian words can be traced back to the Dutch. My grandfather still remembers when the Dutch were here.

Main attractions would be Bali, it's a world known tourist attraction. Kind of like a cheaper Asian Hawaii. Although I was born there I am don't have Indonesian blood and I dont know so much about Indonesia other than the capital city where I lived. But Indonesia has alot of beautiful islands that was made into resorts, if you want to enjoy a tropical holiday.

[Dion 2,476]

Well the Dutch were in Indonesia for almost 350 years until 1945. But for some reason nobody speaks Dutch here other than the older generations of educated people, but was told that at least 20% of Indonesian words can be traced back to the Dutch. My grandfather still remembers when the Dutch were here.

Main attractions would be Bali, it's a world known tourist attraction. Kind of like a cheaper Asian Hawaii. Although I was born there I am don't have Indonesian blood and I dont know so much about Indonesia other than the capital city where I lived. But Indonesia has alot of beautiful islands that was made into resorts, if you want to enjoy a tropical holiday.

So you are Indonesian? I've accompanied some Indonesian governors and Indonesian ambassador in Brazil in a conference a few weeks ago. Their english wasn't all that good, I had a bit of trouble translating what they wanted, HAHAHA. But in general they seemed nice and excited to be here, lovely people - except the assistant of governor Cornelius(?!), the guy was a bit of a douche.

I know this is your HS Skips, sorry.

[Beepu 1,714]

So you are Indonesian? I've accompanied some Indonesian governors and Indonesian ambassador in Brazil in a conference a few weeks ago. Their english wasn't all that good, I had a bit of trouble translating what they wanted, HAHAHA. But in general they seemed nice and excited to be here, lovely people - except the assistant of governor Cornelius(?!), the guy was a bit of a douche.

I know this is your HS Skips, sorry.

I was born in Indonesia but I have no Indonesian blood or ancestry, so I will look different than those ambassadors you met. English is not a widely spoken language in Indonesia although it is taught in schools. What is your field of work?

Sorry for derailing this thread Skipper....

[Dion 2,476]

I was born in Indonesia but I have no Indonesian blood or ancestry, so I will look different than those ambassadors you met. English is not a widely spoken language in Indonesia although it is taught in schools. What is your field of work?

Sorry for derailing this thread Skipper....

It was just a temporary/casual work. They were hosting this conference - GCF, http://www.gcftaskforce.org - fuck my life this spacing - and didn't have enough fluent english speakers to deal with all the foreigners so they hired me. I'm in law school.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Dion... It's okay. I'm just waiting for your hot seat don't worry.

Beepu, you're lucky yours has gone.

[Dion 2,476]

Dion... It's okay. I'm just waiting for your hot seat don't worry.

Beepu, you're lucky yours has gone.

HAHAHAHA, don't you have to volunteer? Can they force me ?

[The Skipper 20,609]

HAHAHAHA, don't you have to volunteer? Can they force me ?

How have you not volunteered yourself?! , can we add our dear Dion to the waiting list please? Also can he jump the queue a bit (Sorry Dion you can't decline this )

[Dion 2,476]

How have you not volunteered yourself?! , can we add our dear Dion to the waiting list please? Also can he jump the queue a bit (Sorry Dion you can't decline this )

I didn't because my hotseat wouldn't hold a candle to yours and the others

I just wonder how come Stingray has not been chosen already.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I didn't because my hotseat wouldn't hold a candle to yours and the others

I just wonder how come Stingray has not been chosen already.

Oh please! I think myself and Barbara would at least bombard you with a load of questions... Don't be shy .

And agreed about Stingy. Hope you nominated yourself too Stingray!