🇪🇸 Fernando Torres

[DYC. 7,542]

Thing is if he hadn't had chances then fair play. he could have bust a gut and got a tap in from Paulo Ferriera. But his attitude is can't be bothered. ALL our strikers who aren't seeing the ball drop deep, collect, create or do something for the team. Drogba always creates for others if things aren't going his way, picks the ball up, powerful. Sturridge comes on and is everywhere, drop deep, pick the ball up and take players on. Torres shows none of the above, no touch, no drive, no goals. He really is grinding me. As much as I want him to do well, I think he will hold us back. I understand people are saying we need to change the way we play, but I don't agree. Look at the goals for Liverpool, not all of them were counter attack, he would collect the ball, take players on, be on the end of crosses. He looks dreadful and literally I would right now bet my bottom dollar ANY of the top 10 teams in the prem, we could take their striker, replace Torres with him and he would give and show more than Torres does..

There's a difference between direct football and counter-attacking football. Utd play direct football, '09/10 Inter' played counter-attacking football.

[magicrico 175]

There's a difference between direct football and counter-attacking football. Utd play direct football, '09/10 Inter' played counter-attacking football.

No matter what anyone says, it's his lack of movement. He has had chances, times he should have scored, his touch has let him down and he has lacked pace. This whole thing about "changing our wholes style" just to suit him is bull. Any world class striker adjusts their game slightly. Sorry but i refuse to believe Chelsea need to change the way we play just to suit Torres.

[dodojojo 510]

Though now that I'm thinking about it, Fabregas would be even better. Can't think of a player who's better than him in playing the killer pass, at a very high frequency, in European football.

I agree. I like it when Torres plays with Fabregas on the Spanish team. Fabregas does tippy tappy but having played in the PL, he understands Torres too. He and Torres started the Euro 2008 Final and no coincidence Torres was MOTM as the lone striker with Fabregas as the attacking midfielder behind him. They also combined to feed Iniesta for the WC winner (one bright spot for Torres' poor tourney!).

Too bad he's intent on going back to Barca.

PS. having searched for the lineup to confirm my point above, I'm posting the Spain Lineup here:

1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 5-Carles Puyol, 4-Carlos Marchena, 11-Joan Capdevila; 19-Marcos Senna; 6-Andres Iniesta, 8-Xavi, 10-Cesc Fabregas, 21-David Silva; 9-Fernando Torres.

Love it. I love Luis Aragones only used one holding MF in Senna rather than Del Bosque's two with Alonso and Busquets. It made for much more exciting football. Spain is still awesome of course, but I remember Spain being spectacularly fun to watch in 2008.

[Guest justin_3d]

I agree. I like it when Torres plays with Fabregas on the Spanish team. Fabregas does tippy tappy but having played in the PL, he understands Torres too. He and Torres started the Euro 2008 Final and no coincidence Torres was MOTM as the lone striker with Fabregas as the attacking midfielder behind him. They also combined to feed Iniesta for the WC winner (one bright spot for Torres' poor tourney!).

Too bad he's intent on going back to Barca.

PS. having searched for the lineup to confirm my point above, I'm posting the Spain Lineup here:

1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 5-Carles Puyol, 4-Carlos Marchena, 11-Joan Capdevila; 19-Marcos Senna; 6-Andres Iniesta, 8-Xavi, 10-Cesc Fabregas, 21-David Silva; 9-Fernando Torres.

Love it. I love Luis Aragones only used one holding MF in Senna rather than Del Bosque's two with Alonso and Busquets. It made for much more exciting football. Spain is still awesome of course, but I remember Spain being spectacularly fun to watch in 2008.

But only one striker!

Iniesta, Xavi, Fabgras and David Silva are not your Sturridge or Malouda, but creative and passing players.

In which it can be Pastore, Mikel, Yossi, Josh, and Lampard???

A 4-5-1?

[DYC. 7,542]

No matter what anyone says, it's his lack of movement. He has had chances, times he should have scored, his touch has let him down and he has lacked pace. This whole thing about "changing our wholes style" just to suit him is bull. Any world class striker adjusts their game slightly. Sorry but i refuse to believe Chelsea need to change the way we play just to suit Torres.

It's not like we've had a certain style of play all these years under Abramovich though. Every ('permanent') manager came with their own style.

Let me add that I'm not saying Torres' poor form is because of the way we play. That's all on him. But playing in the way which brings the best out of him, would of course help him a lot.

[Guest justin_3d]

BTW Mikel and Josh can easily do the double holding mid, with Pastore if he comes, and Yossi more advance role.

We will have no wingers, and will truly have to rely on one sole striker like Spain. So that's with Torres.

Will be very hard since our team is used to the 4-3-3, wing type play, then the creative passing play of Spain.

[dodojojo 510]

But only one striker!

Iniesta, Xavi, Fabgras and David Silva are not your Sturridge or Malouda, but creative and passing players.

In which it can be Pastore, Mikel, Yossi, Josh and someone else???

Well, if AVB goes with 4-2-3-1, isn't that one striker? Chelsea have been using strikers as psuedo wingers so that's why it seems normal to have so many strikers on the pitch. Works well for 4-3-3 I suppose. Not sure about 4-2-3-1.

Fantasy football? I would use:

Brana, Luiz, Terry, Cole

Mikel, Modric

Yossi, Pastore, Mata

Torres

And since it's a long season, there are plenty of players to sub all of the above. Josh M for Modric and Pastore. Malouda for Mata, Drogba for Torres, Sturridge for Yossi, Lampard for Mikel, etc. Yossi can go in the middle or wide. No one, no matter how rich their form, is going to play 60 games.

BTW, I listed that Spain lineup as a tangent...it wasn't meant to be for Chelsea. I just love watching that version of Spain. More fun than 2010.

[DYC. 7,542]

I agree. I like it when Torres plays with Fabregas on the Spanish team. Fabregas does tippy tappy but having played in the PL, he understands Torres too. He and Torres started the Euro 2008 Final and no coincidence Torres was MOTM as the lone striker with Fabregas as the attacking midfielder behind him. They also combined to feed Iniesta for the WC winner (one bright spot for Torres' poor tourney!).

Too bad he's intent on going back to Barca.

PS. having searched for the lineup to confirm my point above, I'm posting the Spain Lineup here:

1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 5-Carles Puyol, 4-Carlos Marchena, 11-Joan Capdevila; 19-Marcos Senna; 6-Andres Iniesta, 8-Xavi, 10-Cesc Fabregas, 21-David Silva; 9-Fernando Torres.

Love it. I love Luis Aragones only used one holding MF in Senna rather than Del Bosque's two with Alonso and Busquets. It made for much more exciting football. Spain is still awesome of course, but I remember Spain being spectacularly fun to watch in 2008.

Yeah 'Euro 2008 Spain' were a better and more attractive side than the one in the World Cup.

Villa didn't start? Forgot all about that. Audacious move by Aragones.

EDIT: Just read in your post below mine he was injured.

[dodojojo 510]

A 4-5-1?

I think Spain lined up as 4-1-4-1 that day because Villa was out because of injuries. I think when he and Torres played together, it was more 4-3-3.

[Guest justin_3d]

Your fantasy line up is right with what i have in mind with some exceptions:

Brana, Luiz, Terry, Cole

Mikel, Josh

Yossi, Pastore, Kakuta

Torres

That might work???

Sorry Lampard, but with Pastore, you are a super sub.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Meh, Lampard will play DM like he did today.

That's if we do use the 4-2-3-1.

[Guest justin_3d]

Lampard as a DM....that's a bold move.

I still like Mikel and Josh.

You can see it at the end of today's game when both enter, there was more precise passing, and more hard tackles done.

[dodojojo 510]

Yeah 'Euro 2008 Spain' were a better and more attractive side than the one in the World Cup.

Villa didn't start? Forgot all about that. Audacious move by Aragones.

EDIT: Just read in your post below mine he was injured.

Aragones was bold, not crazy...actually he is kinda crazy but he's not stupid. Who would bench Villa?

[magicrico 175]

It's not like we've had a certain style of play all these years under Abramovich though. Every ('permanent') manager came with their own style.

Let me add that I'm not saying Torres' poor form is because of the way we play. That's all on him. But playing in the way which brings the best out of him, would of course help him a lot.

I just disagree with the last part. He has had chances, failed. Touch,Finish and Pace are all things he is lacking. Nothing to do with the way we play. I know you said poor form is down to him. If he had a touch, pace and a finish we would be talking about how good Torres is. Nothing to do with our style, or any other excuse.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Lampard as a DM....that's a bold move.

I still like Mikel and Josh.

You can see it at the end of today's game when both enter, there was more precise passing, and more hard tackles done.

I prefer Lamps + Mikel. And if we get Pastore, i can see that being the case

Lampard on playing there -

I have played there for England fairly regularly but I do like to get forward and this won’t be a role that will stop me getting into the box. As long as I’m never told not to stray beyond the half way line, I’ll be happy. I’ve never been that kind of player anyway. Some people can play there but I don’t think so.

[Guest justin_3d]

I prefer Lamps + Mikel. And if we get Pastore, i can see that being the case

Wait a sec, so wasn't the whole last season people saying Lampard ain't a creative midfield and all this stuff?

With Josh i at least see him as a Pirlo/Alonso type of player.

Lampard is a finisher.

I think for Torres game, Mikel and Josh would benefit more then Lampard in the team.

Sorry but I also see Lampard as a problem for Torres, which would be solved if Pastore gets here.

[DYC. 7,542]

I just disagree with the last part. He has had chances, failed. Touch,Finish and Pace are all things he is lacking. Nothing to do with the way we play. I know you said poor form is down to him. If he had a touch, pace and a finish we would be talking about how good Torres is. Nothing to do with our style, or any other excuse.

But what is 'our' style? The way we played under Mourinho, under Scolari or the way we played under Ancelotti?

And his poor form is down to him, but what's wrong with playing in a way which suits the player who was bought for 50 mil best?

And there's nothing he can do about losing pace btw, nobody wants to lose pace but it happens.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Wait a sec, so wasn't the whole last season people saying Lampard ain't a creative midfield and all this stuff?

With Josh i at least see him as a Pirlo/Alonso type of player.

Lampard is a finisher.

I think for Torres game, Mikel and Josh would benefit more then Lampard in the team.

Sorry but I also see Lampard as a problem for Torres, which would be solved if Pastore gets here.

Josh will take over from Frank eventually, but imo that is still not now.

And Lampard not creative? the same player that had 17 assists the season before last in the league alone?

[Guest justin_3d]

Josh will take over from Frank eventually, but imo that is still not now.

And Lampard not creative? the same player that had 17 assists the season before last in the league alone?

I don't know, but i feel like Lampard is also a hinder for Torres.

It is i rather see more creative players like Mikel and Josh to give you a solid defensive mid with good passing vision, with your line of 3 made of pacey creative trio of Yossi, Pastore and Kakuta.

I am more then sure Kakuta and Josh can start in the team next season if there is a line up like that. A mix of youth and experience players.

Have to take a risk, something Carlo was afraid to do last year. Let's hope AVB can do that. Cause if it's something like that, then we don't need to overhaul as he says.

[dodojojo 510]

I have played there for England fairly regularly but I do like to get forward and this won’t be a role that will stop me getting into the box. As long as I’m never told not to stray beyond the half way line, I’ll be happy. I’ve never been that kind of player anyway. Some people can play there but I don’t think so.

Ah, doesn't that mean he's not really a good candidate for holding or defensive midfielder?

The point of that player is to hold down the fort while the attacking MF goes forward. If the DM gets too far forward too often, you're open to counter attacks. It's a thankless role but someone has to do it.