Barca dressing room after Chelsea 2-2

[The only place to be 11,313]

That's very poetic and everything but I'm sorry to inform you that Platonic morals don't exist in the real world. Success is only pleasurable because it comes on the expense of others, that's why you never see someone celebrate a goal he scored while training alone with no keeper.

Couldn't disagree more, and there is a world of difference between celebrating your own success and glorying in your opponent's defeat.

Revenge is one of the things that gives most pleasure to humans, it's part of our sadistic side; so is proving everybody wrong. If you don't feel pleasure from watching those Barca players in pain you are either: not a chelsea fan and therefor don;t consider the success your own, or not human, or most probably pretending and lying to yourself first of all.

Well I'm definitely a Chelsea fan, and I'm definitely human. I don't think I'm lying to myself either.

I simply think that mocking a worthy opponent after they've been defeated in a fair contest is not sporting. It's one of those things that is best left on the playground as you enter adulthood, although I may be doing a disservice to the many, many children who actually no what sporting etiquette actually is.

Footballers are people, and just like any people who are against you (be it in sport or not) you enjoy their suffering.

Oh......

(slowly backs out the door)

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Couldn't disagree more, and there is a world of difference between celebrating your own success and glorying in your opponent's defeat.

No there isn't because it wouldn't be success if you are beating anyone. If you think otherwise give one example of a success without competition.

I simply think that mocking a worthy opponent after they've been defeated in a fair contest is not sporting. It's one of those things that is best left on the playground as you enter adulthood, although I may be doing a disservice to the many, many children who actually no what sporting etiquette actually is.

Not mocking them, but taking pleasure from their defeat. I know it does not sound 'nice', and that's because humans aren't 'nice'. It is not something that can be explained in a post on a forum. I recommend Freud's illustration on the human's death instinct in "Civilization and it's Discontents" for a proper explanation.

Oh......

(slowly backs out the door)

Didn't expect you to accept my ideas, just wanted to give a different perspective to the matter.

[The only place to be 11,313]

No there isn't because it wouldn't be success if you are beating anyone. If you think otherwise give one example of a success without competition.

You're not really understanding my point. There is a world of difference between celebrating your own success and glorying in another's defeat. There's a certain thing known as sportsmanship and whilst it may not be 'human nature' as prescribed by Freud, there are certain things we do as humans to rise above our base instincts.

It's why in sport we congratulate our opponents or shake hands before a match, despite us wanting them to lose. It's why you have a drink in the bar after a rugby match with some guy who just tried to rip your head off.

It all comes down to class and mocking your opponent after a good contest is classless. That's how I was raised and that's how I've conducted myself throughout ever contest I've competed in be it sporting or otherwise.

That type of thing is what I associate with Chelsea and it's real supporters. The type who can get the train back after a match and have a beer with an opposition supporter.

[Corner 456]

What does it matter if they are on the pitch or not? Footballers are people, and just like any people who are against you (be it in sport or not) you enjoy their suffering. Your pleasure from Bayern's pain when Drogba scored is the natural instinctive emotion for humans. The "compassion' you feel afterwards is the fear that you would be in their position some day.

I did not mean to offend anyone or question anyone's loyalty to the team; my post was not directed at the barca game or all of football for that matter but general human nature. It was a mix of psychology and philosophy that I really expect very few people to accept but it is my belief.

If that's your belief, then fine. You're not offending me by having a contrasting belief. But it's not my belief, and not my outlook on life or human nature.

When I saw the expressions on the Bayern players' faces I was relieved that I wasn't watching the Chelsea players look like that. But that's not compassion. I felt compassion afterwards when I actually relaxed and thought about how they really felt after working so hard to win. True, some people revel in the pain of others if it means they themselves are successful, but not me. Human nature exists and every human shares a lot of things, but not everyone is the same and feels the same emotions.

I admire Barcelona and many of their players, so my feelings of compassion for them were a bit stronger than usual. So it's not easy for me to see those pictures. I certainly don't revel in their pain, whether it is human nature to or not.

[Jase 43,479]

Leo Messi: "There are players here who hate Chelsea more than Real Madrid, I never thought I would hear myself say that."

"I also never thought I would see something worse than the Boca and River Plate rivalry or Brazil v Argentina - but this is.

"We would rather play Arsenal, Manchester United or anyone else than be on the pitch with Chelsea."

Hehe.

Curious, any source for that?

[Kieran. 6,317]

Curious, any source for that?

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,11668_2368373,00+en-USS_01DBC.html

[Corner 456]

http://www.skysports...-USS_01DBC.html

Sky Sports really do twist things with their headlines don't they.

[Jase 43,479]

http://www.skysports...-USS_01DBC.html

Have seen that before IIRC. It's a fake one.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You're not really understanding my point. There is a world of difference between celebrating your own success and glorying in another's defeat. There's a certain thing known as sportsmanship and whilst it may not be 'human nature' as prescribed by Freud, there are certain things we do as humans to rise above our base instincts.

It's why in sport we congratulate our opponents or shake hands before a match, despite us wanting them to lose. It's why you have a drink in the bar after a rugby match with some guy who just tried to rip your head off.

It all comes down to class and mocking your opponent after a good contest is classless. That's how I was raised and that's how I've conducted myself throughout ever contest I've competed in be it sporting or otherwise.

That type of thing is what I associate with Chelsea and it's real supporters. The type who can get the train back after a match and have a beer with an opposition supporter.

Well you completely missed my whole point. I was talking about emotions and the human psychological system while your post is about sportsmanlike conduct which are conscious actions.

Never mind...just pretend I didn't say anything in the first place..

[The only place to be 11,313]

Well you completely missed my whole point. I was talking about emotions and the human psychological system while your post is about sportsmanlike conduct which are conscious actions.

Never mind...just pretend I didn't say anything in the first place..

I know exactly what you're saying. I'm just explaining that in sports we don't give simply allow our unconscious desires to run free. We treat opponents with respect and act with a certain amount of decorum.