🇧🇷 David Luiz

[Reddish-Blue 2,509]

If he left and went to a rival, I'd always fancy our chances of getting him to make a mistake. Of course there's always the chance he would have a stormer too.

As for being a scapegoat, I think that's an overused excuse. It was incorrect about Mikel (who is Mr Irrelevant since we replaced him with a far superior player) and it's incorrect about Luiz.

Fair point....I'd have to say if Barca came with a bid of 30-35 million....it would be tough to refuse that sort of deal.

My only question is...who would take Luiz's position as the 2nd/3rd choice CB? Zouma or Kalas...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You said "everyone in the world" How does the opinion of Chelsea fans on this forum represent that of everyone in the world? I have never seen a neutral fan that holds or ever held Luiz in such high regard. Not a single neutral/unbiased fan never mind everyone in the world.

Fine that was an exaggeration, just like you saying that no neutral fan holds him in high regards is an even bigger exaggeration. You can't deny that Luiz was very highly rated in the summer and was wanted by the likes of Barca and Bayern for a reason. He's having a below average season, but for all we know he could finish this season the way he finished last, as by far the best CB in England, and everyone would be saying that they wouldn't sell him for 40m again.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

150 pages ago

The song remains the same. Three years in and what has he actually changed about his game apart from hoofing the ball out a bit more?

How has he LEARNT from his mistakes?

Mine was actually about a game where he played at CM and I think a couple of others are as well. But the funny part is, here was your reply to my post:

OMFG.....we need to close these threads after players have one bad game etc.

Thought Luiz had an okay game today. Didn't think he was any worse than anyone else on the pitch and I still think it's him and one other as the centre-back pairing going forward. I've had reservations about him in the past but he's been a solid performer over the last few months and become someone fairly dependable.

I'm not denying that Luiz can be error prone at times, and I get why some people want him gone, but the guy has also showed that he can be absolutely world-class and he perform at the highest level. My point is, let's not insult each others intelligence by calling him an awful CB.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Fine that was an exaggeration, just like you saying that no neutral fan holds him in high regards is an even bigger exaggeration. You can't deny that Luiz was very highly rated in the summer and was wanted by the likes of Barca and Bayern for a reason. He's having a below average season, but for all we know he could finish this season the way he finished last, as by far the best CB in England, and everyone would be saying that they wouldn't sell him for 40m again.

No he wasn't. In fact I doubt if you'd get consensus on what his best position was, let alone him being the best in England. Also I doubt you could find 3 members who wouldn't have sold him for £40 million.

I'm not denying that Luiz can be error prone at times, and I get why some people want him gone, but the guy has also showed that he can be absolutely world-class and he perform at the highest level. My point is, let's not insult each others intelligence by calling him an awful CB.

I knew you'd bring that response up and it perfectly captures the point I've made throughout his time here. He CAN be world class. He CAN be the best defender in the world.....but never consistently. There's always a catch with him, a brainfart around the corner and that inconsistency is what'll kill you.

He was fine for 87 minutes yesterday. Then he fucked up. I want a defender I can trust for 90 minutes, not 87 minutes. So does Jose which is why he has only selected him as a CB TWICE before yesterday's game in THREE MONTHS.

That's what's so maddening about him. The conversation never changes. He's got the same faults he always did, just like Mikel. We replaced Mikel.....we'll replace Luiz.

[lionsden 4,689]

Fine that was an exaggeration, just like you saying that no neutral fan holds him in high regards is an even bigger exaggeration. You can't deny that Luiz was very highly rated in the summer and was wanted by the likes of Barca and Bayern for a reason. He's having a below average season, but for all we know he could finish this season the way he finished last, as by far the best CB in England, and everyone would be saying that they wouldn't sell him for 40m again.

Highly rated by biased and overly sentimental chelsea fans: yes and there's no concrete evidence that the Bayern and barca interests were legitimate.

As for the bolded, not sure if serious.

[bababoom 4,478]

Yes, the guy who's helped his teams win many trophies including two European trophies and the CONFEDs, the main CB for one of the best NTs in the world, the guy who, just in a few months ago in the summer, everyone here was refusing to sell him to Barca and Bayern for 40m and who everyone in the world considered in the top 5 if not top 3 CBs in the world is "an awful CB"

We drop two points and suddenly everyone turns into a hormone-crazed pregnant women!

please tell me who considered him one of the best CBs int he world? Jesus Christ... do people just forget how much of a liability he is at the back? it's funny when you slate Luiz people always come back with excuses, if that doesn't work they say 'look at how many mistakes Cahill/Terry made', Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but there's a difference between making a mistake every once in a while, like Cahill/Terry, to being a repeat offender like Luiz.

He's one of the most overrated players I've come across in a long time. He's not even top 10 best defender in the PL ffs.

Another thing, lets be honest, is his passing that good? i hear many people on this forum say he's vital because he gets the ball to our attacking players meaning we can play from the back... i disagree, in fact how many times does he just hoof the ball up to no one? his passing is better than most defenders but it isn't great.

[Viper22 2,418]

Why does everyone claim that Mikel/Luiz are scapegoated? When players play badly, they get criticized. Luiz and Mikel have poor games more often than some of the other players. Therefore they get criticized more often. Why is that so hard to understand?

I think Luiz is a decent footballer, anything but reliable, but whne he plays well, he plays BRILLIANTLY. My personal opinion though is that £30M from Barca would be great if we could then reinvest that in another CB who maybe isn't quite so eccentric and a bit more reliable. If they want to pay us £30M though, any less and i'd be skeptical, after all, he's still a pretty good CB and a great DM.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

please tell me who considered him one of the best CBs int he world? Jesus Christ... do people just forget how much of a liability he is at the back? it's funny when you slate Luiz people always come back with excuses, if that doesn't work they say 'look at how many mistakes Cahill/Terry made', Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but there's a difference between making a mistake every once in a while, like Cahill/Terry, to being a repeat offender like Luiz.

He's one of the most overrated players I've come across in a long time. He's not even top 10 best defender in the PL ffs.

Another thing, lets be honest, is his passing that good? i hear many people on this forum say he's vital because he gets the ball to our attacking players meaning we can play from the back... i disagree, in fact how many times does he just hoof the ball up to no one? his passing is better than most defenders but it isn't great.

No you're right, mate, he's won all those trophies by sheer luck, became a starter for his NT because no one in Brasil knows how to play football, was bought by Chelsea for 25m because our scouts are shit and attracted interest from Barca and Bayern because they're bad teams and know nothing about football...

I don't want to go into a debate about Luiz's abilities right now because I think it's pointless. Like I said, you have every right to criticize whatever you want about Luiz and I do see the most of the points being raised because like I said I think he's having a below than average season, but to call him someone as established and accomplished as him "an awful CB" is just ridiculous and blinded by hate.

[The only place to be 11,313]

No you're right, mate, he's won all those trophies by sheer luck, became a starter for his NT because no one in Brasil knows how to play football, was bought by Chelsea for 25m because our scouts are shit and attracted interest from Barca and Bayern because they're bad teams and know nothing about football...

I don't want to go into a debate about Luiz's abilities right now because I think it's pointless. Like I said, you have every right to criticize whatever you want about Luiz and I do see the most of the points being raised because like I said I think he's having a below than average season, but to call him someone as established and accomplished as him "an awful CB" is just ridiculous and blinded by hate.

Good point.

We shouldn't criticise him because he was bought for us for big money in 2011, is an established international for a top team with over 100 caps, helped us win the Champions League and Europa League, attracted interest from top sides, has been in two team of the year selections, was third in the world player of the year and has even won the World Cup and European Championship.

Oops, sorry...I confused him with Fernando Torres by mistake. Still a good point though Choulo.

Edited February 12, 2014 by The only place to be

[haranr 485]

Should be dropped from the CB position.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Should be dropped from the CB position.

For all intents and purpose he was. It was only because Terry was injured that he played yesterday and it cost us.

[quickpassnmove 924]

I'm happy to see David leave ASAP, as well as John O.M., and Fernando. Bring in more center midfield depth and experience. still running on Matic and Ramires alone. still paper-thin in center midfield.

One striker, more in center mid, and the fullback, sell Luiz, sell Mikel.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Good point.

We shouldn't criticise him because he was bought for us for big money in 2011, is an established international for a top team with over 100 caps, helped us win the Champions League and Europa League, attracted interest from top sides, has been in two team of the year selections, was third in the world player of the year and has even won the World Cup and European Championship.

Oops, sorry...I confused him with Fernando Torres by mistake. Still a good point though Choulo.

Did you even read my post? I'm saying criticize him all you want and I even agree with some of the criticism, just don't say something completely illogical and bordering on stupid like "He's an awful CB" and expect no one to call you out for it.

[lionsden 4,689]

Why does everyone claim that Mikel/Luiz are scapegoated? When players play badly, they get criticized. Luiz and Mikel have poor games more often than some of the other players. Therefore they get criticized more often. Why is that so hard to understand?

I think Luiz is a decent footballer, anything but reliable, but whne he plays well, he plays BRILLIANTLY. My personal opinion though is that £30M from Barca would be great if we could then reinvest that in another CB who maybe isn't quite so eccentric and a bit more reliable. If they want to pay us £30M though, any less and i'd be skeptical, after all, he's still a pretty good CB and a great DM.

I wonder why players like JT, carvalho, lampard,Zola, makelele et al were never scapegoated in their prime playing for us. must be because they didn't give critics reasons to scapegoat them with their consistently great performances and effort. poor/average/overrated or past their prime players always seem to be the "scapegoats". can't just be pure coincidence.

If you are top notch and put in quality performances regularly, no one can scapegoat you without looking ridiculous.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Did you even read my post? I'm saying criticize him all you want and I even agree with some of the criticism, just don't say something completely illogical and bordering on stupid like "He's an awful CB" and expect no one to call you out for it.

Whereas you can say stuff like everyone in the world considered in the top 5 if not top 3 CBs in the world?

[lionsden 4,689]

Did you even read my post? I'm saying criticize him all you want and I even agree with some of the criticism, just don't say something completely illogical and bordering on stupid like "He's an awful CB" and expect no one to call you out for it.

he's a very average defender with good technique seems about right. Massively overrated too if I might add.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Whereas you can say stuff like everyone in the world considered in the top 5 if not top 3 CBs in the world?

Fine, that was stupid. Does that make the other statement not stupid?

he's a very average defender with good technique seems about right. Massively overrated too if I might add.

Fair enough, your opinion.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Fine, that was stupid. Does that make the other statement not stupid?

Fair enough, your opinion.

I think lionsden has a good point though. He's a great footballer but I'm not sure he's a great defender.

He has skills that a CB simply doesn't need but lacks the ones that they do. I think it's purely down to his personality and I think there's a link between his exuberant personality off the pitch and his erratic personality on it. Maybe he's got ADHD or maybe he's just immature but concentrating for 90 minutes on the runs of defenders, offside lines and through balls is fucking tough and he simply might not be up to it.

I don't think anyone could doubt his ability on the ball and he is capable of playing well in defence, but at the top level you need to do it week-in and week-out. Luiz seems to like to be noticed, whereas defences are at their best when you don't talk about them. They provide the solid, stable foundation for all those fancy barstards to go and do their step-overs and what-not.

I think Luiz has a deep desire to be one of those fancy barstards. I'd pick him in midfield, but every time he plays in defence I worry. I don't have an agenda, I'm not looking for a scapegoat and I actually would've preferred him in midfield over Ramires yesterday, but I guarantee that I'm not alone in worrying a bit more when he's in defence for us.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Exactly. Luiz is an awful CB and should be sold in the summer. That's what it boils down to. Everything else is just hot air.

If he was so awful, why does he get ahead of Dante for his NT? Explain that one.

[The only place to be 11,313]

If he was so awful, why does he get ahead of Dante for his NT? Explain that one.

I'm no expert, but Dante isn't exactly a world-beater is he? He's only been at a top club for a couple of seasons, didn't make his international debut until he was 29 (by which point Luiz was somewhat established since his time in Benfica) and was something of a journeyman before that. He was playing in Belgium until the age of 26.

You're talking about someone who made his international debut about the same age Leon Osman did and who has the same number of international caps as Chris Smalling.

If you want to say that selection for the Brazilian national team should reflect his quality, then you know you're just setting yourself up for people listing players like Andre Santos (24 caps), Jo (14 caps) and Robinho (92 caps) who were all busts in our league.

Conversely Willian and Fernandinho have 9 caps between them. Maybe the Brazilian selectors aren't the bastions of football knowledge you're holding them up to be in support of Luiz, or maybe they are.