The TC 'Avram Grant OUT' Topic

[C'mon the chels 0]

I feel really sorry for Avram.

O.k he lost out to Spurs in the Carling Cup Final.

Knocked out of the F.A.Cup by Barnsley.(I was at this game,totally disgusted by the chants)

With the prem trophy within his grasp,taken away fairly by Man Utd.

The Champion`s League Final next Wednesday(even the special one could not achieve that)Avram has taken Chelsea to Moscow.

C`mon Avram`s Blue & White Army.

I would never condone chanting hateful things at Grant and never have done it myself, and I never sat there once this season chanting Jose's name. Football isn't as simple as Avram Grant beat Liverpool in a Champions League semi final and Jose couldn't therefore Grant is a better manager. There is no doubt in my mind that Jose would have taken us to a Champions League final at some point, we know he could do it as he won the thing at Porto, but being successful in football means having a little bit of luck and the luck Jose needed was to not come up against Liverpool in the Champions league as he appeared to have a specific problem beating them!

[Fulham Broadway 17,306]

He seemed to spend a lot of energy pre match, psyching out Rafa and flinging insults. OK that may deflect from any pressure on the players, but often played into Liverpools hands -just as Rafas comments about Drogba did.

Grant ;. As useful as one of those team mascots imo.

1. Unqualified, and appointed because of being sycophantic and ingratiating himself with Abramovich.

2. Has demonstrated no apparent tactical skills and just seems so untrustworthy - leeching off the knowledge and accomplishments of others -would you buy a car off the cunt ? I just get fucking angry feeling that we could be doing better.

[bombayblue™ 55]

Fans are fickle!!! arent they.? Arsene Wenger a nobody comes to Arsenal, and wins ove the fans in couple of seasons by winning the league.

Fans had a huge banner "3 years and still shit" (or something like that)....A league title in 1992-93 has changed it all.

I wont be surprised, if Grant wins over more fans if are to win the Champion's League.

i would appreciate if he left a mark on the team, can you pinpoint one thing in this team that tell's you it's grant's team..

and now i'm so pissed on him that even if we won the CL the only people i'll be giving credit is clarke and ten cate..

[Sunburn 0]

Grant = out

I won't talk too much about Jose because that is another issue. But with regards to Grant we must remember a few simple things:

1) how he got the job

2) his previous experience

3) his performance

1) - how he got the job still burns me up...jose leaving in a painful divorce was always obvious but it seems strange that we hire a director of football who is a friend of the owner, within 2 months jose is gone and said director takes over - and then we don't fill the directors position? That has snake written all over it.

2) - he doesn't have the experience of a wenger or other top managers who were relative unknowns. Does he deserve a chance - sure but not at a top club like Chelsea and the position should be awarded on past success and merit

3) - he has made some big time blunders tactically and is a terrible motivator. At this level - probably the 2 most important qualities a manager can possess.

I'm also disgusted on how he has dismissed Jose's work so easily. A football team over 3 years is never going to always sail smooth - but it did for the most part with Jose - and when Jose hit a rough patch it was understandable with guys like Avram upsetting the apple cart.

However he does deserve some credit for the following and to show that I don't always have the blue glasses pulled down:

1) he did steady a sinking ship - even if he is the one who blew the hole in the stern

2) he has learned from some of his mistakes tactically

3) the press has decided not to pick on us so much because they can't get anything out of the lifeless Grant - i guess thats a skill

I would even go as far as saying some of our football the last quarter of the season has been slick - ten cate perhaps? - ballack has certainly played better with cate here - avram was kidding himself about beautiful football at anytime before that - but at the same time we have failed more often to shut teams down like we use to under jose...

So having said all that....and even if we do win the CL...

Avram = out

[DavidEU 2,023]

I feel really sorry for Avram.

Knocked out of the F.A.Cup by Barnsley.(I was at this game,totally disgusted by the chants)

You text me after the game mate, saying Avram out!

[warnie_666 1,081]

i would appreciate if he left a mark on the team, can you pinpoint one thing in this team that tell's you it's grant's team..

HE hasnt even had one complete season to leave a mark. I mean...you expect him to take the team mid season, and change the whole system and style? You saw what happened to bolton when Sammy Lee tried to change the style mid season and saw how they managed to keep thmselves up when megson stuck to the good old style of Bolton under Big Sam.

Bernd Schuster, has stuck to the same style and formation as that of Capello. The only difference being couple of players in the first team.

The difference between Jose Mourinho and Grant could be seen in the games against Liverpool and Man Utd.

And I hope he sticks to it and attack them right from the word GO!!!

[C'mon the chels 0]

HE hasnt even had one complete season to leave a mark. I mean...you expect him to take the team mid season, and change the whole system and style? You saw what happened to bolton when Sammy Lee tried to change the style mid season and saw how they managed to keep thmselves up when megson stuck to the good old style of Bolton under Big Sam.

Bernd Schuster, has stuck to the same style and formation as that of Capello. The only difference being couple of players in the first team.

The difference between Jose Mourinho and Grant could be seen in the games against Liverpool and Man Utd.

And I hope he sticks to it and attack them right from the word GO!!!

Oh come on Warnie, for the two times you can say the difference between the two is two games against Man utd and Liverpool anyone in their right mind can pick 10 against smaller clubs that never stood a chance against us with Jose. And anyway we had a good record against UTD under Mourinho so I don't see how that game is relevant. The only game anyone can pick out as us doing better in under Grant is the Liverpool CL match and like I said for that one game I could probably sit here and pull 10 off the top of my head where we've done worse.

[warnie_666 1,081]

Oh come on Warnie, for the two times you can say the difference between the two is two games against Man utd and Liverpool anyone in their right mind can pick 10 against smaller clubs that never stood a chance against us with Jose. And anyway we had a good record against UTD under Mourinho so I don't see how that game is relevant. The only game anyone can pick out as us doing better in under Grant is the Liverpool CL match and like I said for that one game I could probably sit here and pull 10 off the top of my head where we've done worse.

Well the approach that we had towards the two games is what I am talking about. Blitz them right from the beginning. Jose never did it. In fact, The last time we won a game against the big 4 before the Arsenal Match was in september 2006. 1-0 against Pool.

The worst I could think of was our game against Liverpool in 2005. The first leg at Bridge, and Jose chooses to play safe and boring football instead of going all out and beating them. His this very approach has cost us the semi finals against Liverpool twice in UCL and twice in Cups.

[pluto 0]

HE hasnt even had one complete season to leave a mark. I mean...you expect him to take the team mid season, and change the whole system and style? You saw what happened to bolton when Sammy Lee tried to change the style mid season and saw how they managed to keep thmselves up when megson stuck to the good old style of Bolton under Big Sam.

Bernd Schuster, has stuck to the same style and formation as that of Capello. The only difference being couple of players in the first team.

The difference between Jose Mourinho and Grant could be seen in the games against Liverpool and Man Utd.

And I hope he sticks to it and attack them right from the word GO!!!

So that's two games out of what 60 odd competitive games so far this season where apparently we have shown some true signs of "Grantness" if that's the word.

Ho hum.

I'd be quite happy with Grant if he had been honest from the start and as good as said "look I'm not going to really change f**k all this year because I want the team to keep going on as they are, it aint really broke and I'll do my own thing next season okay?".

That attitude I could respect.

I can't respect someone who keeps telling me about the great football we keep playing, the lack of the "long ball", the quick and slick complicated passing movements we now do that never happened before, the "better ball rentention" and "combinations" whilst at the same time telling me he "respects the past" when he clearly can't resist at every available opportunity laying blame on Mourinho for everything from losing the league to just about escaping unscathed in the CL campaign, I'd just love to know whom will get the flalk next season when Mourinho tainting of Grant's sterling work will be totally gone.

Sure changing nothing was the smart move no gripe with you there but the trouble is Grant just has to keep trying to justify his existence by pretending he is actively changing the team when clearly he isn't, he has yet to really go through a bad patch when he is not getting results like Jose started to do through the latter part of his reign and see how he likes it. At least he wont have a vulture circling in the background waiting for his job like Grant did to Mourinho.

Whilst I can't really stomach the idea of Grant actually being lauded as some kind of genius based on what little he has actively contributed to the team to date, equally I condemn any attacks on his nationality or religion, I also get embarrassed to see some fans chanting Jose's name at games or booing Grant - that's unfair and really of little help to anyone - Jose aint coming back and we are stuck with Grant for what seems like the forseeable future.

Edited May 15, 2008 by pluto

[pluto 0]

He seemed to spend a lot of energy pre match, psyching out Rafa and flinging insults. OK that may deflect from any pressure on the players, but often played into Liverpools hands -just as Rafas comments about Drogba did.

Grant ;. As useful as one of those team mascots imo.

1. Unqualified, and appointed because of being sycophantic and ingratiating himself with Abramovich.

2. Has demonstrated no apparent tactical skills and just seems so untrustworthy - leeching off the knowledge and accomplishments of others -would you buy a car off the cunt ? I just get fucking angry feeling that we could be doing better.

I agree about Jose and those CL games against Liverpool, I felt he let himself get distracted more by Rafa than anything else, that was the one of the few times when I felt his tactics off field actually played into Liverpool's hands. The one big reason I think Grant got through this year was keeping his mouth shut so as giving the Liverpool fans little to get annoyed about and also having that critical second leg at SB. Sometimes you can mouth off just too damn much.

As for your points about Grant, I especially like the one highlighted in bold - for me that is the main irksome quality I think he possesses in spades - he just seems to leech off other people's hard work and talent (Mourinho, Clarke, Cate, other backroom coaches and staff, the players spirit as well) in order to hide his own deficiencies and insecurities.

You just sense with Grant that unlike Mourinho or a Ferguson or Wenger if you took away all the support network and asked him to get on with it himself he would be up sh*t creek.

[warnie_666 1,081]

So that's two games out of what 60 odd competitive games so far this season where apparently we have shown some true signs of "Grantness" if that's the word.

Ho hum.

I'd be quite happy with Grant if he had been honest from the start and as good as said "look I'm not going to really change f**k all this year because I want the team to keep going on as they are, it aint really broke and I'll do my own thing next season okay?".

That attitude I could respect.

I can't respect someone who keeps telling me about the great football we keep playing, the lack of the "long ball", the quick and slick complicated passing movements we now do that never happened before, the "better ball rentention" and "combinations" whilst at the same time telling me he "respects the past" when he clearly can't resist at every available opportunity laying blame on Mourinho for everything from losing the league to just about escaping unscathed in the CL campaign, I'd just love to know whom will get the flalk next season when Mourinho tainting of Grant's sterling work will be totally gone.

Sure changing nothing was the smart move no gripe with you there but the trouble is Grant just has to keep trying to justify his existence by pretending he is actively changing the team when clearly he isn't, he has yet to really go through a bad patch when he is not getting results like Jose started to do through the latter part of his reign and see how he likes it. At least he wont have a vulture circling in the background waiting for his job like Grant did to Mourinho.

Whilst I can't really stomach the idea of Grant actually being lauded as some kind of genius based on what little he has actively contributed to the team to date, equally I condemn any attacks on his nationality or religion, I also get embarrassed to see some fans chanting Jose's name at games or booing Grant - that's unfair and really of little help to anyone - Jose aint coming back and we are stuck with Grant for what seems like the forseeable future.

YEah...I agree on that.!!! He needs to shut up about the beautiful and wonderful football which we havent played and which ANY SANE FOOTBALL FAN WOULD KNOW IS NOT POSSIBLE WITH THE SORT OF PLAYERS WE HAVE!!!

Bring, Dos Santos, Di Santo, Quaresma, And we might just get to see the sleek movement in the field.

[Fulham Broadway 17,306]

You just sense with Grant that unlike Mourinho or a Ferguson or Wenger if you took away all the support network and asked him to get on with it himself he would be up sh*t creek.

Spot on there.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

4-3-3 worked under Mourinho. Why change it? What you are implying, is that Grant needs to change his formation, and then he will not be seen as using "Mourinho's squad." The fact is, Mourinho came in, and it was still Ranieri's team. But he was given the summer to make his changes, and it seems likely the same will be offered to Grant. I don't want to see him here next year, but he is getting a lot of unfair criticism. If we had played that season under Mourinho, people would forget about it and see what the next year brings. But under Grant, one thing goes wrong and its immediately his fault. Very unfair, it doesn't matter if you like him or not, in my opinion he has done okay. Not brilliant, but okay. And he has earned some respect from the crowd, and rightly so.

[pluto 0]

4-3-3 worked under Mourinho. Why change it? What you are implying, is that Grant needs to change his formation, and then he will not be seen as using "Mourinho's squad." The fact is, Mourinho came in, and it was still Ranieri's team. But he was given the summer to make his changes, and it seems likely the same will be offered to Grant. I don't want to see him here next year, but he is getting a lot of unfair criticism. If we had played that season under Mourinho, people would forget about it and see what the next year brings. But under Grant, one thing goes wrong and its immediately his fault. Very unfair, it doesn't matter if you like him or not, in my opinion he has done okay. Not brilliant, but okay. And he has earned some respect from the crowd, and rightly so.

We are playing this season under Mourinho because Grant hasn't changed anything for it to be anything but Mourinho's team out there. I don't think Jose could have won us the title this year either actually - although I do think he may very well have done better in the other two domestic cup competitions.

Grant gets a lot of flak because of his weasel words. What I'm saying is that Grant keeps giving the impression repeatedly that we have in some magical way played better, more positive attacking football by changes he has already made to the team, training, tactics and so on.

He then sometimes forgets himself and says he has only slightly changed things and then seems to forget he said that and swings back once again to telling everyone about the proverbial feast of football we've had thanks to the regime change.

I actually was happy with our system and set up from before - sure we went through bad patches but I really had no complaints to any severe degree. Grant has been brought in he tells us to take Chelsea to a new level and also we are told bring us a totally different style of football - more attractive, more attacking, more fluid etc.

Now if he had actually done that then I would have no problem with the guy but the problem is as I've said before he says one thing but simply does nothing actively to bring it about. Even fans of his have to scratch around to find even a few games where they can apparently see clearly the change in our approach.

He is now alluding to changes being made over the summer - so may be we will see the real Avram Grant next season?

I'm not holding my breath, for Grant to make changes means taking major risks and ditching what has to date brought him fame and glory.

Does we really want to rely on his nous to see us through next season?

Better that he kept copying the previous manager's modus operandi - seems to have worked perfectly for him so far.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I agree with you about him saying we are playing better football. We're not. What I was saying is that Mourinho's system worked, and there was no real need to change it, especially in the middle of the season. If he does stick around, I'll guess we'll see what the summer brings.