Sticking To The Truth & Actual Facts..

[Cracker 0]

Last week an article from the Website "Kick it out" was posted here in the forum by "Fulham Broadway" in the "Football talk"-section of the Forum under the Title "kick racism out of football"(the original post can still be seen there).

& a link to the article here-" http://www.kickitout.org/index.php?id=9&StoryID=1504

"Fulaham Broadway" wrote in the thread there this qoute..-

1)"It was-("the article') about various respectable organizations citing Israeli teams as being the most racist."

*My observances -I have read this article about 4-5 times already & NOWHERE in the article is it written anything about "Israeli teams being the most racist" nor about any "various respectable organizations". there is ONLY ONE organization mentioned in whole article that is the "New Israel Fund" that is a totally Israeli organization,

it is an organization that has started to Rank & compare racism within Israeli teams among THEMSELVES, its not written even once in the article that they are comparing Israeli teams to other teams in Europe or in the World,

This organization is ranking ONLY local Israeli teams NOT also teams from other countries, but still they wrote there in the article that overall- "Soccer hooliganism in Israel HAS NOT reached European levels, but it is very much part of the culture of the game here - something civil society organizations and team officials are trying to change."

2) he also wrote there- that this thread was "not about hooliganism" but about racism in football.

*my observations- But again in the article they did not actually differentiate between the two things-(racism & hooliganism) in such away as he did , Again I quote -.."Soccer HOOLIGANISM in Israel has not reached European levels, but it is very much part of the culture of the game here - something civil society organizations and team officials are trying to change."

In no way do I want to turn this thread into another political discussion or argument, I have made my political views clear enough & Broadway & others here have made there views clear enough to, there is NO need to get into all that again now..

The ONLY issue here is about! ethics in posting & sticking to the facts, regardless of anyone's political views there should be at least a minimal ethical standard when a member posts something, that he/she will stick to the truth of the matter & whats written as much as possible,

I urge everyone to read the article again, and if they find there any reference of anything about "various organizations" ranking Israeli teams as "being the most racist"?.

please let me know..

& if maybe it would help some people here to be more objective on the matter, just imagine that the article is not written about Israeli football but about Swedish football for example or any other country you choose & feel comfortable with, just try to stick to the exact raw facts that are stated there.

I don't know what made Broadway change the facts of the article, if it was deliberate or if it was just his hate towards Israel-(that he has stated many times and also in the original thread) that just blinded his eyes momentarily, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter & I think we should all try & expect from others here to try & stick to the actual written facts of things & not let our own personal views distort the facts & create confusion & misconceptions with others.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Cracker

[Fulham Broadway 16,845]

''In December 2000 it was reported that every club in Israel was on a final warning following escalating violence and intimidation at matches''

Reuters and Wikipaedia.

This has never occurred with any other country in the world. Happy now ?

[Elliott 7]

"In no way do I want to turn this thread into another political discussion or argument, I have made my political views clear enough & Broadway & others here have made there views clear enough to, there is NO need to get into all that again now.."

Well then what the hell do you want?

Oh, yeah, attention.

People can post what they like here within reason. The media don't stick to the facts, tell all the truth all of the time, so why the fuck should we, average people? Get lost.

And this certainly shouldn't be in the feedback forum, moving to The SO Bar.

[Aesthetic Relic 301]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..............

[warnie_666 1,081]

So wht did you have for breakfast today?

[One Bar 0]

Last week an article from the Website "Kick it out" was posted here in the forum by "Fulham Broadway" in the "Football talk"-section of the Forum under the Title "kick racism out of football"(the original post can still be seen there).

& a link to the article here-" http://www.kickitout.org/index.php?id=9&StoryID=1504

"Fulaham Broadway" wrote in the thread there this qoute..-

1)"It was-("the article') about various respectable organizations citing Israeli teams as being the most racist."

*My observances -I have read this article about 4-5 times already & NOWHERE in the article is it written anything about "Israeli teams being the most racist" nor about any "various respectable organizations". there is ONLY ONE organization mentioned in whole article that is the "New Israel Fund" that is a totally Israeli organization,

it is an organization that has started to Rank & compare racism within Israeli teams among THEMSELVES, its not written even once in the article that they are comparing Israeli teams to other teams in Europe or in the World,

This organization is ranking ONLY local Israeli teams NOT also teams from other countries, but still they wrote there in the article that overall- "Soccer hooliganism in Israel HAS NOT reached European levels, but it is very much part of the culture of the game here - something civil society organizations and team officials are trying to change."

2) he also wrote there- that this thread was "not about hooliganism" but about racism in football.

*my observations- But again in the article they did not actually differentiate between the two things-(racism & hooliganism) in such away as he did , Again I quote -.."Soccer HOOLIGANISM in Israel has not reached European levels, but it is very much part of the culture of the game here - something civil society organizations and team officials are trying to change."

In no way do I want to turn this thread into another political discussion or argument, I have made my political views clear enough & Broadway & others here have made there views clear enough to, there is NO need to get into all that again now..

The ONLY issue here is about! ethics in posting & sticking to the facts, regardless of anyone's political views there should be at least a minimal ethical standard when a member posts something, that he/she will stick to the truth of the matter & whats written as much as possible,

I urge everyone to read the article again, and if they find there any reference of anything about "various organizations" ranking Israeli teams as "being the most racist"?.

please let me know..

& if maybe it would help some people here to be more objective on the matter, just imagine that the article is not written about Israeli football but about Swedish football for example or any other country you choose & feel comfortable with, just try to stick to the exact raw facts that are stated there.

I don't know what made Broadway change the facts of the article, if it was deliberate or if it was just his hate towards Israel-(that he has stated many times and also in the original thread) that just blinded his eyes momentarily, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter & I think we should all try & expect from others here to try & stick to the actual written facts of things & not let our own personal views distort the facts & create confusion & misconceptions with others.

Bore off you cunt. What's the odds on you being a gay black yid?

[misschief 24]

Im gonna save that for later when I cant sleep.

[Cracker 0]

''In December 2000 it was reported that every club in Israel was on a final warning following escalating violence and intimidation at matches''

Reuters and Wikipaedia.

This has never occurred with any other country in the world. Happy now ?

Just another way of yours to try & continue to deceive everyone here..

You bring here some warning from 2000 to try & prove what you wrote before

that Israel was stated by a few "respectable organizations" as being the "most racist"..?

& all that after it was written in a much later article that you posted here from-2004, that-"Soccer hooliganism in Israel HAS NOT reached European levels"..

Just do me a favor "proof" like that wouldn't even convince a child of-4,

& just to put the things in the right context again.. in September 2000 the Palestinians began what is called the "Second Intifada" where scores of Israelis & Palestinians were left murdered ,killed or injured in many suicide bombings within Israel & in Israeli & Palestinian fighting in the West bank & Gaza.

Anyway, at the time of the start of the Intifada there was understandably much higher than usual tensions between the two communities within the Country, that obviously boiled over also into the countries football stands, FIFA launched it's warning to Israeli teams in December2000, thats about a couple of months after the Intifada began at the peak of tensions between the two communities,..

Is that really what you call "proof" to what you wrote there that Israel has been stated as the "most racist"?

& with all those tensions no one for my knowledge has ever been murdered or killed by football hooligans or their likes in Israel,

if you really want to check where ethnic tensions & hooliganism violence has been much worse in the World, when people have actually died or have been severely injured in the violence

go back & check in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

Countries like Croatia, Turkey, Italy, Syria & many others..before you even start mentioning Israeli football in the hooliganism or racist context.

Anyway I'm quite sure that even the biggest proof with the most proved facts in the World wouldn't convince you or that ignorant fans cult of people you have here in the forum & made their remarks as usual on some of the posts of this thread too, But I'm more than sure that anyone with a bit more objective views or truthful traits would understand straightaway where your remarks & your "indisputable proof" is really coming from.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Cracker

[Fulham Broadway 16,845]

Not very nice calling the members of this forum an ''ignorant fan cult'' now is it ?

Still trawling cyberspace in the small hours to post a rabid defence of the murderous racist state I see.

From Kick Apartheid and Racism Out;

All sorts of measures have been taken by the Occupation to block the Palestinian national football team and Palestinian sportsmen and women in recent years. Most recently, said the letter to Blatter, on March 30th 2006 Occupation Forces bombed the Palestine Football Stadium in Gaza, leaving a massive crater in the middle of the pitch.

“In 2004,” it continued, Apartheid Israel “set out to prevent the Palestinian football team from representing the Palestinian people on an international level during the (FIFA) World Cup qualifiers by disallowing several members of the team from leaving Gaza.” In part of the Occupation’s attempts to destroy Palestinian identity, Palestine is forced to play all its “home” games in a foreign country. The ghettoization of the Palestinian people imposes on the Palestinian football team to hold its practice sessions in Egypt.

And here you are, just for you

[Elliott 7]

I think Cracker's point is that the Israeli's aren't the worst at it, but he seems to miss the point that that is completely irrelevant, it's a problem if they are racist and hooligans at all. And bombing the Palestinian football team's stadium is pretty bad, and I can see why they did it. If Palestine has a nationally recognised football team, it's another step towards full independence and a significant one.

[Fulham Broadway 16,845]

I think Cracker's point is that the Israeli's aren't the worst at it, but he seems to miss the point that that is completely irrelevant, it's a problem if they are racist and hooligans at all. And bombing the Palestinian football team's stadium is pretty bad, and I can see why they did it. If Palestine has a nationally recognised football team, it's another step towards full independence and a significant one.

True. States see their national sport as an endorsement of their country, and succeeding is paramount. This was evident during the Cold War. Israel would hate to be outdone in football by a Palestinian 11.

[Cracker 0]

Not very nice calling the members of this forum an ''ignorant fan cult'' now is it ?

Oh no!..real pity on you & all your poor fans cult..

after almost a full month that you've all been swearing at me & using other endless vile & vulgar style of language against me... you still don't have any shame to start morally lecturing others on their language & style of writing?..

Thats it!.. I new that it would come to this in the end..., You tried to fool everyone by saying that Israeli football related hooliganism & racism is the worst in the world

you lied & tried to deceive everyone here on the matter when you wrote things like-

"We here a lot about racism in Spain and Italy but by far the worst year on year is found in Israel."

while I have proved more than once here that it has been stated that -"Soccer hooliganism in Israel HAS NOT reached European levels"..-(exactly what was written in the article you posted here yourself.)

& now that you know that your cunning deceiving trick hasn't worked & has been reviled for all here to see, your trying to DIVERT the subject here again to a political argument about Israel,.. personally I don't intend to let you lead me there again, just to help you hide your lies & deceiving attempts on the original issue..,

& about all your nazi wako lunatic remarks & video,..all I can say is that your so

inhumanely ignorant, & your ancestors were only just extremely lucky that Hitlers army didn't succeed in the end to fulfill their plan & march on the streets of London in the end, because I'm sure that if that would have happened as they planned, you & family today, if your parents & the rest of your family were for some reason still left alive by them, would have been for sure allot less ignorant & would have learned in the most worse ever possible ways what the naziem movement & nazi soldiers murderers sadistic behavior was really all about,

but as for now your just another empty minded dirty mouthed full of ignorant blinded hate for what you do not & probably will never be capable of understanding YOB..

personally I don't intend to converse or argue with you anymore here on this subject

I think its clear enough for everyone here to see & judge you for what you really are.

But I Know that you always want & need to have last say..so feel free to write & say here what other abnormal sick things you just like & if you just want to make sure a 100% that you really have the last say ,you can lock up this thread again too & throw away the key for all I could care less.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Cracker

[Cracker 0]

I think Cracker's point is that the Israeli's aren't the worst at it, but he seems to miss the point that that is completely irrelevant, it's a problem if they are racist and hooligans at all. And bombing the Palestinian football team's stadium is pretty bad, and I can see why they did it. If Palestine has a nationally recognised football team, it's another step towards full independence and a significant one.

1) First of all I condemned numerous times any kind of hooliganism or racism of any sort from any race religion or culture with NO EXCEPTION-(I wrote that already in the previous thread on the matter in the "Banter football".) I also wrote here in the forum a few times in the past that ANYONE that acts in such ways are total idiots & criminals & should be dealt with appropriately, But I don't need to repeat the same things 20 times either, So I hope its clear enough now & it will be the last I'll need to repeat it again?!

2)The truth is that actually your "Moderator" friend here above, actually just helped me

prove my point much better!...He has just proved again that he is so full of hate towards Israel that he's totally blinded or unwilling to be ethical & truthful enough to stick to even the most clear of facts that are written black on white in various articles, just because they are about Israel & don't fit his own extreme views exactly,

he stated that Football related violence & racism in Israel was the WORST out of all countries, & as I have proved from various sources including the article that he himself posted in the previous thread, that it is totally untrue & just something he made up in his own sick imagination, but still posted it here as it was a "proved fact".

3)& at the end of the day the most important thing & that makes matter, is what people & elected Governments in the NORMAL World think about the situation & not what some irrelevant ignorant abnormal Yob "thinks" or says..

This is what the free democratic world thinks about the terrorists that are fighting Israel- from Wikipedia- "Hamas - listed as a terrorist organization by Australia,^[6]Canada,^[7][8] the United Kingdom,^[9] the European Union,^[10]Israel, and the United,"

So at the end of the day if your friend supports Nazi terrorist groups like Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya & others.. he belongs to a tiny minority of extreme abnormal sick people in the World,

But still.. it would be interesting to see how he would react if Heaven-forfend some of those nazi terrorist friends of his would ever actually release for example a

"Dirty bomb" in the center of London or crash a commercial airline into the packed stands of one of the Premiership football stadiums?.. like they have warned in the past that they intend & plan to do...we'll see what nice & supportive things he will have to say about them then too..

Edited February 20, 2008 by Cracker

[Cracker 0]

And bombing the Palestinian football team's stadium is pretty bad, and I can see why they did it. If Palestine has a nationally recognised football team, it's another step towards full independence and a significant one.

& here's the real explanation of why the Football stadium was bombed-

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/SoccerKillingFields.html

unfortunately when some people use totally illegitimate places & ways to hide weapons or use as terrorists training grounds ext.. against any type of written & acceptable international "Laws of war" that exist,..Like hiding & smuggling weapons inside Ambulances, or smuggling terrorists inside journalists cars that have a

"free journalist pass" to travel in & out of Israel, or even sometimes smuggle weapons & bombs inside Little children's schoolbags, & also in this case here, use a football ground as a terrorist training camp...& just to remind you by the way Hamas in Gaza even have special terrorist training camps for little children too.

In the end, again unfortunately such criminal & unacceptable actions like those I wrote here above & others..that many of the Palestinian terrorist groups take, do in the end Backfire on them usually at a later stage..because if for example the Israeli army finds hidden weapons inside an Ambulance(and it has happened already a few times in the past) they wont have a choice but to stop & check now almost every Ambulance on its way to the Hospital, and because of that of course many innocent people that have no connection with terrorism will very unfortunately have to suffer from the situation in the end,

the same story with journalists, & also with a football stadium that has been turned into a training ground...that in the end it will be again unfortunately also innocent players & fans that will suffer from it.

The claim that Israel wouldn't want the Palestinians to play Football or have their own national team is so ludicrous & untrue, I don't think there would be anything in the world that the Israeli's would prefer more-that all the Palestinians would become more interested in playing & watching football matches instead of waisting the same time & energy on terrorist activities..

& anyway go & check & you will see that the Israeli & Palestinian National teams have played already a few times together in various Peace related competitions that Shimon Peres & his Palestinian counterparts have organized together in the past.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Cracker

[Fulham Broadway 16,845]

Lol! nice Zionist Tom Gross propaganda there.

Israel is the only country that has all its teams put on a final warning for racism and hooliganism.

At the end of the day your rabid defence of Nazi Israel is borne out of guilt. Guilt that you know Israel is the REAL terrorist in the Middle East. It has 250 nuclear weapons. It regularly tortures and kills citizens from it's poor neighbours. It has destroyed over 500 Palestinian villages, killed over 50 000 civilians, and maimed over 45 000 children. (UN figures).

No wonder NONE of the countries round it will participate with it in sport or other events. No, it has to come crawling to Europe.

No, (God this is tiresome), I don't support Hamas. But seeing as you brought them up -the US and it's lackey Israel said to the Palestinians ''You must have fair and democratic elections''. So they did, and Hamas won, fair and square. Then the US and Israel said ''Oh no, we dont want them to win, we will not have that''. Fucking joke.

Hamas is irrelevant, a child struggling against a bully torturing and sexually abusing it. I have fought Nazis, BNP, National Front etc , in my youth for Anti Fascist Action, and apologists for Israels policies are Nazis in different clothes.

Archbishop Desmond Tutu;

"I've been very distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us blacks in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about ... If apartheid ended, so can the occupation, but the moral force and international pressure will have to be just as determined. The current divestment effort is the first, though certainly not the only, necessary move in that direction."

From "Apartheid in the Holy Land," Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu

On your advice , I will close this thread. It's getting nowhere, and I'm fed up of seeing your nocturnal defence of the real Middle East Terrorists, Israel.

I suggest you have a look at these Jews, REAL Jews who are against Israel, who see it for what it is. A US Pitbull off the leash in the Middle East.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/