BIG CLUBS

[Madmax 9,219]

Celtic and Rangers are big UK clubs, not big European clubs.

[Blue In Green 86]

Celtic and Rangers are big UK clubs, not big European clubs.

There was a time when Celtic were probably the most supported football side in America, because of the Irish diaspora. This was before satellite TV, mind. Now Manure has fans in every hovel. It's annoying.

[Kostas 1,468]

Interesting topic.

From my point of view the main criteria when discussing about clubs of European pedigree should be

1. Prolonged success on the field
2. A world wide fan base
3. A large domestic fan base
4. Consistently large attendance figures

Criteria like academy success * and the ability to attract players and sponsors aren't as important to me because they are largely dependent on extremely fluctuating factors like a team's wealth, public recognition, pull in the media or even its luck.

*Ajax deserves special recognition for what they've been doing in the last decades is IMHO an exception.

Now when it comes to small leagues in countries where football has never really developed properly and European success is little more than a dream the only criteria that matter are :

• Prolonged success on the field
• Size of the domestic fanbase
• Consistently large attendance figures

So in Greece's case the top clubs would be Olympiakos, Panathinaikos and AEK (in that order). All three are based in or near Athens, have never been relegated and have won 69 out of 75 league titles. However the football in this county is as corrupted (if not more) as the society and the top clubs are amongst the worst offenders.

It wouldn't be far-fetched to claim that Italy's Calciopoli is a childs lie in comparison to what has been going on here since 1996, the BIG clubs (namely Olympiacos) have gone from controlling the referrery committee and planning who gets the league and who gets relegated to literally owning more than half of the teams in the top division. That usually leads to the small clubs getting bankrupt and the big ones getting bitch-slapped whenever they play a game which they have no power on (ie Europa League/Champions League).

[zolayes 14,489]

Interesting topic.

From my point of view the main criteria when discussing about clubs of European pedigree should be

1. Prolonged success on the field
2. A world wide fan base
3. A large domestic fan base
4. Consistently large attendance figures

Criteria like academy success * and the ability to attract players and sponsors aren't as important to me because they are largely dependent on extremely fluctuating factors like a team's wealth, public recognition, pull in the media or even its luck.

*Ajax deserves special recognition for what they've been doing in the last decades is IMHO an exception.

Now when it comes to small leagues in countries where football has never really developed properly and European success is little more than a dream the only criteria that matter are :

• Prolonged success on the field
• Size of the domestic fanbase
• Consistently large attendance figures

So in Greece's case the top clubs would be Olympiakos, Panathinaikos and AEK (in that order). All three are based in or near Athens, have never been relegated and have won 69 out of 75 league titles. However the football in this county is as corrupted (if not more) as the society and the top clubs are amongst the worst offenders.

It wouldn't be far-fetched to claim that Italy's Calciopoli is a childs lie in comparison to what has been going on here since 1996, the BIG clubs (namely Olympiacos) have gone from controlling the referrery committee and planning who gets the league and who gets relegated to literally owning more than half of the teams in the top division. That usually leads to the small clubs getting bankrupt and the big ones getting bitch-slapped whenever they play a game which they have no power on (ie Europa League/Champions League).

thanks ..This is exactly the type of post I had hoped would be made ..reasoned and informative ..good to have you back friend

[Henrique 9,133]

Well we have 15 or so big clubs in England as well - the fact of the matter is only a handful are recognised worldwide.

You see Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, United and Newcastle (don't ask why, I have no idea) shirts being worn worldwide, because these are massive football clubs.

However, if you were to ask the average football fan who was the biggest team in Brazil, they'd struggle to answer it. Santos, Corinthians, Gremio are probably the three most popular ones people would be able to name in England.

In fact these are top 10 brazilian clubs:

1- São Paulo

2- Internacional

3- Corinthians

4- Flamengo

5- Cruzeiro

6- Gremio

7- Palmeiras

8- Santos

9- Vasco

10- Fluminense

I know these clubs aren't known in Europe or in Africa or Asia, but they are well known in Brazil and in South America. I think these clubs can be compared to turkish and greek giants. They have a massive and passionate local fan base, but they are barely known outside the world.

You wont find any brazilian who doesnt support a local team but a european. I support Palmeiras since I was 6 years old, and my son/daughter will support Palmeiras too. If Palmeiras face Chelsea in a FIFA Club WC I wont think twice before picking a side.

I'm sure Kostas also support one greek team.

[Kostas 1,468]

I'm sure Kostas also support one greek team.

If it's a Champions League final it'll be definitely Chelsea for me. I'd rather football justice be served than celebrate yet another Greek football fluke.

[zolayes 14,489]

In fact these are top 10 brazilian clubs:

1- São Paulo

2- Internacional

3- Corinthians

4- Flamengo

5- Cruzeiro

6- Gremio

7- Palmeiras

8- Santos

9- Vasco

10- Fluminense

I know these clubs aren't known in Europe or in Africa or Asia, but they are well known in Brazil and in South America. I think these clubs can be compared to turkish and greek giants. They have a massive and passionate local fan base, but they are barely known outside the world.

You wont find any brazilian who doesnt support a local team but a european. I support Palmeiras since I was 6 years old, and my son/daughter will support Palmeiras too. If Palmeiras face Chelsea in a FIFA Club WC I wont think twice before picking a side.

I'm sure Kostas also support one greek team.

thanks for posting

[Henrique 9,133]

Well we have 15 or so big clubs in England as well - the fact of the matter is only a handful are recognised worldwide.

You see Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, United and Newcastle (don't ask why, I have no idea) shirts being worn worldwide, because these are massive football clubs.

However, if you were to ask the average football fan who was the biggest team in Brazil, they'd struggle to answer it. Santos, Corinthians, Gremio are probably the three most popular ones people would be able to name in England.

I dont think its only worldwilde. In last 20 years only 4 different teams won english league.

In last 20 years 11 different teams won brazilian league.

2 english teams won european cup in last 20 years. 6 different brazilian clubs won Libertadores in last 20 years.

So I dont think You can say the are 10 Big clubs in England right now. Thats why there was the so called Big 4.

Power in european leagues is really unbalanced. Its changing in last seasons in England, I think 4 or 5 teams can win the PL next year, but 3 years ago it was a two horse race.

I think in next years it will be like that: 4 or 5 teams with real chances of winning the PL.

Thats why I said before Brazil is a continent. Brazilian League is like the league with best teams from each state. Like CL has the best from each country.

Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo have their own Big Four clubs. There is a huge local rival between them.

Minas Gerais and Rio Grande do Sul have two giants each state.

The powers are really balanced between these clubs, compared with Europe.

[zolayes 14,489]

bumped only because because of Spurs fans on Talk Sport ..all claiming Spurs are a bigger club than Chelsea ...Bigger in every way other

than wealth ,,,Strange wherever Ive been in Europe . UK or Africa have rarely seen a Spurs shirt ..Certainly not in the last ten years

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I'll admit, as a kid, they were quite popular with Arsanal and United. However this was in like '98-'00 or so. After that, everyone more or less forgot about them

[Kostas 1,468]

They only got recently famous around here and that's because of the hype around Bale.

Zola got us known here 10 years ago.