Barbara

Forgot to answer the second part. I never said or implied we lost because of Lamps. I meant that was a bad 4-3-3 formation, we could have played him in the second, giving someone sharper to the toughest part, have played a real winger where Oscar played, or have played Oscar where Lamps played (regardless if those tests with Oscar and the rightful winger were done in the first or in the second half). That's not the point. That's giving importance to the result - which I didn't. We had two penalties for us that weren't called. We could have drawn, we could have won, who knows what would have happened if we had scored. Either way we would have exposed issues I thought were already being improved, but this match showed they weren't. We were only better against weaker sides. I think pre-season is the best time to find issues and work on them, instead of working on them during the regular season. So if we had the penalties called and we had scored and we have won I would be complaining about the same things because the score doesn't matter! Hazard could have netted that chance he had at the beginning of the second half. Or Iker could have not defended that header by Ivanovic also at the begining of the second half. And then we would have won this... just like we won the odd matches last season when we played poorly collectively and we would continue to have issues that could compromise other matches - like many were last season. Isn't that the history of this team for the last couple of years? Having the attack to overcome how much this defence concedes? Having to rely on players individually winning us matches because collectively we would have failed? How many matches we failed collectively that made us end 6th in EPL and knocked out of Champions League in the group stage? How many times Drobga, Mata, Cech, Lampard individually scored for us and saved the day? How many times they didn't and we lost or drew? Except on CL when we parked the bus and were lucky in the matches against Barça and Bayern (and in addition to that Cech saved us way too many times). For two seasons it's a tale of us finding a way to compensate a defence that concedes too many with goals (when Cech save tons of them) or to overcome that our striker can't score and so we rely on everyone else to do so. Lamps included. I suppose some people must be really content with ending the EPL the position we did two seasons ago, with being knocked out in the stage group of UCL, with struggling to win against 2nd level teams in Europe to win EL. Because fact is collectively and tactically we've been a mess for two years and while I don't think 25 days of pre-season is enough to fix it I don't understand why two games away from official matches we still are nowhere near what will be our first team. So instead of trying this first team now (down from two key players already) - at least half time - and fixing its issues now, we're only focusing on the physical part, on making tests with players in all possible positions and we will end up testing the first team only during official competition. So we're only delaying handling our issues... But I know nobody was content with the past 2 seasons - because although we won two important titles - we got knocked out out of the group stage playing poorly, we finished 6th in the league with the squad we had - and in a month from now everyone will be bitching about the same problems I'm complaining now (if they persist, and they might), like everyone bitched about them throughout the last two seasons. Then I'll come here again and say: 'that's why I acknowledged those problems in the pre-season. That's why I thought we should have done like Carlo did with Real Madrid, making less subs as each game passed and tried different versions of a first team (with 1-2 changes from one match to the other) instead of prioritizing giving Lamps the first 45 minutes on the only real challenge we had in the pre-season or testing everyone in the squad (except FB and CB) in all possible positions under the sun'. I think we need time and I see no reason to waste time - and opportunities like a match against a team like Madrid - to start the improvements that need to be done I want those things to be worked by the end of the pre-season. Many of you prefer to be handled in a couple of weeks. Let's agree to disagree.

I think we could have tested a formation that could be used later in the regular season. I didn't like the line-up even before the match started. I thought it wouldn't work and having a player out of shape would only make it worse. Instead we could have Lampard to play in the second against a more tired opposition... he would have played, worked out and still faced a strong opposition... much stronger than Roma, Hull, Villa, etc because that's what a slightly tired or B Real Madrid team is. It's more about an effective formation, testing players in the positions they could produce better, rather than ignoring Lamps. I think he's important to us. I think there are matches that fit him better than other MF, but I don't think with a squad as deep as we have now that we were in desperate need to use him in the first half because less tired Ronaldo, Modric and Özil is what he needed. I can't really understand why it's so different for him to play the second or the first half if he needs minutes - not necessarily to face the best players in the world before they get slightly (or very) tired. We could moved Oscar for his position, or we could have started with a winger on Oscar's place instead of moving him to the wing and overexerting an out of shape Lamps like he was. I don't think we're in desperately need to recover Lamps when so many fans in this very forum thought we shouldn't (or couldn't) even have extended his contract (this one girl here wants Lampard to stay much longer, as stated many times before). It's not like we're short of players in his position either, in case he isn't completely fit by August 18. Actually he won't be fit, regardless of which half he played yesterday or if he played 30 minutes instead of 45. Rui Faria, Mourinho and Terry all of them commentated that time lost on pre-season takes months to be recovered as the team will always be ahead of you physically, so when he finally reaches the level the rest is now on, they will still be ahead of him, until the others finally reach their limit which takes months.

actually I deleted two lines from my post (without noticing) I meant "I think what we need is time and two adjustments. a striker and a backup CB. Why do you say we need a creative midfield? Isn't that what Mata, Hazard and de Bruyne are? I think they're class and are basically that. What did you have in mind as a creative MF Like who for example? I really think with those two adjustments, it's only a matter of maturing. Without those two adjustments it's a matter of maturing, but also raising the challenge and depending more on the likes of Mata, de Bruyne, Oscar and Hazard to score and for Luiz not to pick any injury throughout the whole season.

I didn't mean we would have won or that we should have. I meant it was a better formation for 4-3-3 and that we could have performed better. In one of my posts I said bringing up the score was pointless, as the result wasn't important, whereas the performance was. So it's how when facing a stronger opposition I could still see most (if not all) our problems last season. which is basically bad transition from defence to attack raffling way too many balls with long passes that are pointless and bad instead of passing it through the midfield; how some players were playing in positions they really don't perform well. How we continue to have attack issues no matter if we start the match with Ba, Lukaku or Torres and how I think Lukaku isn't ready to start for us in big matches - both because it's too much pressure on him (although today there was only moderate pressure) and how he isn't technically ready yet. I'd much rather prepare him to take the position naturally, slowly, prioritizing his development not the team's need. I've seen so many youngsters being promoted way too fast, being asked to do way to much and it affected their confidence and evolution on medium term. Why possibly risk his development by throwing him to do something he's not prepared yet? Some think he is, but I personally don't. Then we could disagree about that. There are many things in that match we did bad - some worsened by the much superior opposition, some because of our own weaknesses. Now it's the best time to identify the issues as those matches really are worth nothing except for preparation to the new season - reason why I'd rather seeing us testing a 4-3-3 that we could really use against some opposition rather than one that I don't think we'll ever see again. I said it sucked before the match... the game showed didn't show my opinion about it. Isn't pre-season where tests should be taken? Why not use or second to last game and the most challenging of all to test a really competitive alternate formation? I could ask Mourinho now if he thought that those 11 players together were what he had in mind for a formation when he decides to use 4-3-3 and I'm positive he would say no. He was testing certain players on certain positions, he wasn't testing a formation. Testing certain players during the season is easier, especially when we face weaker sides as for example in the cups whereas testing entire formations is more difficult as he will certainly rotate the team and give rest to one player or another here and there when he opposition allows him to do it. Finding deficiencies now will benefit us in the future - reason why I named (partially) the match report as a beneficial loss unless the adminis renamed it. I think this match helped me to have more realistic expectations about this team in the next 2-3 months. I was under the impression given the other 2 matches (I don't consider the first three) that some things have already improved. But they didn't and that's sort of expected because Mourinho isn't working for a month yet, and some key players only arrived 10 days ago. I guess the problem is if we criticize, some people don't care to understand where we're coming from, they just label it with 'criticism over a loss on a pre-season game' when some people here who criticized the match today were complaining about old issues that are still present. It has nothing to do with losing a pre-season match to Madrid, but everything to do with carrying those issues to the official competition by using excuses such as 'it was a friendly' or 'it was Madrid that has a better squad than us'. In my case I also said I think we need two adjustments (signings) in the squad. A high level striker and a backup CB because I'm not confident Kalas is ready. If we don't look at those friendlies critically, they're pointless. Mourinho said it himself he has a lot of work to do and if he said that is because he saw issues that need to be fixed, some of them that weren't as clear against weaker sides. At least that's the reasoning I had in mind when I said the same, even before his interview was posted.

the hiring an entire team was a figure of speech to illustrate that even we bring more players (1, 2, 3, 11) we may solve some problems, but there will still have others. I didn't plan to imply you meant we needed a new team. I think the problems are more about maturing this team and sharpening it rather than for example bringing a creative mf as you suggested I think what we need is time and two adjustments. Like who for example? Because I think we're good in the creative MF... it's the function they perform on the pitch and the zone they play that might take away some of their creativity.

I guess I know where the confusion came from... I never meant to say it's common sense to approve or disapprove death row. Sorry if that's what my bad punctuation led you to believe. Just to clarify I don't think it's common sense to approve or disapprove death taken by men I agree with euthanasia and with do-not-resuscitate decisions, disagree with death row, and agree with some abortion cases, and disagree with other. I guess the problem was the punctuation or the lack of better explanation. The common sense part I meant is disagreeing about something I understand the reasoning. Everyone can do that, and it lacks no logic.

it's a question of disagreement then, not of lack of logic. I could understand why some people think or behave in such way or make some decisions, but I can still disagree with their decisions. I understand why he wants to improve Lampard's physical condition. I don't think it was the best plan of action to use him in the first half instead of the second. It's not like Lamps is our own 'Cristiano Ronaldo' and we have to add minutes to him to recover shape otherwise we might struggle against Hull City. So yeah, I think he could have used him in the second and then again against Roma and we could have tried a 4-3-3 formation that is much more likely to happen during the season than that one. And the death row comment was the first thing that crossed my head (I didn't say it was the equivalent, just gave another example of understanding reasoning, but still disagreeing with it). It could be a person's cheating, it could a club like City thinking that buying everyone else and their mother is how football is made or how Florentino Peréz thinks that he proves how big Real Madrid is by spending millions every summer and buying what some consider the biggest names on football for the next years, too bad I didn't think someone would take a comparison behind a reasoning and bring the futile discussion of whether or not death row is good or not. So sorry for having not thought of better examples to show how someone can understand reasonings and still disagree with them. Now I took the time to reflect on what more basic things, are they better comparisons for you or should I put a little bit more of effort there? Or we could talk about the real issue here, which is my opinion on the match. You let me know

It wasn't a good match from him imo... he was out of position and added little to the match. I would have loved him to have played where Lamps played though. I think 4-3-3 suits him the best and the third man in the midfield is where I think he can both tackle and help defensively and also contribute offensively.

I understand where he's coming from, but I disagree. I understand why someone supports death row for example, I personally don't... sort of common sense to understand the reasons, but not necessarily approve of it... or so I thought.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/8860365/jose-mourinho-plays-down-spat-with-cristiano-ronaldo?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter just as everyone knew, except the press and Cristiano Ronaldo

It's done, Lex. Do your magic

Real Madrid beat Chelsea 3-1 for the International Champions Cup on Wednesday in Miami and while a loss is never good, there might be a lot of positives that Chelsea and their manager José Mourinho can take from the match against the team he coached until three months ago. Anyone who has followed the Spanish side during the Portuguese’s tenure in Madrid could see a lot of his legacy in the friendly. Even though new manager Carlo Ancelotti is slowly making what he sees as necessary changes, they were still tame and shy. Fast paced counter-attack oriented, while keeping control of the actions in the match, the team from Madrid brought their first squad to face a mixed Chelsea side. In the press conference after the victory over AC Milan, Mourinho had already hinted he would continue to use his pre-season strategy so far: having his best players split in two teams, one for each half. But the manager didn’t have all of his players to start with. While Frank Lampard played his first match in this pre-season, both Juan Mata and David Luiz picked up minor injuries and stayed back in Washington DC instead of travelling with the team to Florida. Real Madrid, rated among the best four teams in Europe last season, would present a daunting challenge to any opposition. And when the line-ups came out, it was clear that José Mourinho stayed true to his word. Names like Victor Moses and Kevin de Bruyne – two of the players with the best performances in the pre-season – were on the bench. It’s not clear yet what will be Mourinho’s first team, but the 4-3-3 formation used last night will hardly been seen during the regular season – saved for injuries. The madridistas started the game on the attack and for the first ten minutes they didn’t allow Chelsea to react. Some players like Marco van Ginkel – who was on his first match for Chelsea against such an intimidating side – were nervous at first and couldn’t find their best football. But things slowly settled down and the Londoners, little by little, found their way into the match. In the fourth minute, Ronaldo showed all his skills trying to dribble past blue defender Branislav Ivanovic, but the Serbian stopped the forward’s efforts as he shrugged the Portuguese off with ease. Nearly ten minutes later, the Portuguese tried to infiltrate again and fired one of his screamers, only to find Ivanovic foiling his plans again, this time by blocking the ball with his body. But as Real Madrid restarted the play with Sergio Ramos, Marcelo received the ball from Luka Modric and dribbling towards’ Chelsea’s box, he shot into the bottom corner, out of the reach to Petr Cech, making it 1-0 to the Spaniards. Los Blancos barely had time to celebrate though. Two minutes later Romelu Lukaku fought for the ball in the midfield, passing it to Ramires who ran past three of Madrid’s defenders before finishing with a delicate chip over Iker Casillas. The match after that were even for a few minutes, not only in the score line but in the actions as well. There were two doubtful calls from the referee as Chelsea’s players were taken down inside Madrid’s box. The first incident in particular was with Oscar as he was sent tumbling down by Ramos but the referee decided against giving the penalty. Chelsea players and fans think their player was fouled inside the opponent’s penalty area, but they got nothing out of it. Real Madrid had yet another chance with a screamer by Modric that crossed the box ahead of Cech, but it went wide. At the 30 minute mark though, Cristiano had a free kick to take – the second at the night – but this time he did better than the first, and the speed and force were too much for Cech to handle, although the goalkeeper was really close to saving it. The Portuguese didn’t lose the opportunity to point his hands to himself while looking towards Chelsea’s bench to show Mourinho that he – Ronaldo – is the real deal. At the start of second half, Chelsea brought Fernando Torres, Victor Moses, and Kevin de Bruyne as Lukaku, Oscar and Lampard marched off. It changed a little bit the match’s dynamics, and Eden Hazard had a clear chance a few feet away from Casillas inside their box, but the goalkeeper closed the angle and cleared it, while the Belgian lamented the wasted chance. But it was Madrid once again that turned an attempt into a goal, and after running into the middle of Chelsea’s defence Cristiano Ronaldo, unmarked, finished with a header following Isco’s cross from the left. 3-1 Madrid. It seemed like the game was done and dusted despite the game was only played for 57 minutes then. Ancelotti’s side still kept their best players, only improving it with di María coming for Benzema as Madrid took control of the actions and controlled the match until the final whistle. Although it was a convincing win for the Spanish side it was also the real test José Mourinho needed in order to know where his team’s weaknesses and strengths lie. Ten days before his returning debut in the Premier League, the manager is aware there’s work to do, and facing such a challenging opponent made it clear where they could improve. But the good news is that the squad is talented and young and the answers might mostly be already at Stamford Bridge. The last game in the club’s pre-season will take place this Saturday, against AS Roma before the team travels back to London to prepare to their debut against Hull City on August 18. Mata and Luiz are still doubtful of joining the friendly against the Italians, but their injuries aren’t serious and they’re expected to play against Hull if there’s no further development. On a final positive note for the blue fans, Chelsea remain unbeaten against Real Madrid in official matches. Match facts Chelsea: Cech; Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry (Azpilicueta 73), Cole; Ramires (Essien 73), Van Ginkel (Schürrle 73), Lampard (de Bruyne 46); Oscar (Moses 46), Lukaku (Torres 46), Hazard. Goal: Ramires 16 Booked: Lampard 36, Cahill 58. Real Madrid: Casillas; Arbeloa, Ramos, Pepe, Marcelo (Nacho 73); Modric (Casemiro 73), Khedira, Isco (Morata 84), Özil, Ronaldo; Benzema (di María 69). Goals: Marcelo 13, Ronaldo 31, 56. Booked: Arbeloa 42 Man of the match: Cristiano Ronaldo Click here to view article

my match report is coming I feel like everyone already read it even before I wrote it.

as I said in one of my first posts here, I don't think we need more than a good striker and a CB backup. It's not about signing new players, but giving time to Mourinho to work with those ones. We may even overcome the lack of those two additional players if they don't come as long as give the team and Mou time ro work. We could bring whoever we wanted, in defence, DM, AM, and strikers, it doesn't mean the team would automatically change and start doing well what they've been collectively doing bad. There are plenty of individual issues (such as the space Cahill concedes while marking, Cech, defenders, and DM's raffling the long balls that are inaccurate and desperate, the way our promising and talented AM are positioned on the pitch and making their roles clear, etc...). So it's a few technical issues on some players and a lot of tactical issues collectively. Hiring an entire new team wouldn't solve if there isn't time for them to work.

He mentioned it before (stating with all words both him and Mata were for sale) and now he comes here and points his qualities. Why would he do that to a player he will allow to leave? edit: *weren't for sale

There, Mourinho reassuring us about Luiz's permanence in Chelsea http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/8860215/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

oh and I now see the post that said we ARE shit, the players we brought AREN'T good enough and judging the board. I guess people were disagreeing mainly with that - although I'm sure with a thing here and there from others too. I don't think that's the case at all. We need time and until Mourinho does all the work he has to do we have to be patient and understanding. This is a transition season like 2010/11 was to Madrid

I love you!!!!!

Reminder of the likes!

on a lighter note... instead of making my bf like football I guess I scared him to death. He's never seen that side of me in the 27 years we know each other. Poor thing, might have nightmares tonight

should I continue to do the match report? If so, I'll probably just copy and paste parts the million posts I have in the post-match thread and flourish them into journalistic perspective, as I feel like I already said everything I think about that match and what it represented to us, hehehehe Of course I'll be milder, as those articles are supposed to be neutral Let me know if I should go ahead. If so, I'll do it when I wake up tomorrow

key word being the part in bold. I've never lost my faith on him. I have plenty of faith on him becoming what we need, not being what we need. He isn't ready today but I think he will and I hope it will be soon (meaning before the season ends). Some people don't simply have faith on him, they have made him the savior. All in all I still think it's better to start Torres in most matches at first and have patience with Romelu so he progresses naturally (supposing we don't get another striker, and I think odds are we won't ). He'll be challenged to take Torres' position instead of having to prove himself and solve our issues. Let the pressure be on Torres. He'd 29, an experienced bitch, if he can't handle it that's his problem. Romelu is promoted to the first team in a much more pleasing (and easier) way than starting him against ManUtd, ManCity and whoever else in the first 5 rounds. I meant us - the fans - not the team. They have to believe they can win. Didn't the team that won UCL for us believed it til the end? And this team is much better than that one in so many aspects, and they did. It's our expectations as fans that should be moderate and realistic. I think we could make QF - but if we fail to do that, it's okay and if we better than that is more than okay! But I think our reality today is QF at most. Exiting on group stage like last year it is a risk though... to almost every team actually because we don't know the groups yet. I think there are only 3-4 teams that we could say will qualify to knockouts regardless of their group (we played one of them today). The rest (2nd tier, not 2nd class) while expected to advance, could fail. Manchester United failed the year before we did. So did ManCity (although that's sort of expected ).

I don't see it as panic. I feel like some of us thought we progressed more than we actually did because the other 5 matches didn't really challenged us and when a team comes and does (although I think only Bayern and Dortmund could challenge us like RM), it exposes some problems we thought were solved or at least better already. For example our transition from defence to attack. Come talk to me after you watch the match and you will agree with me the same issues we had last season are still there. As they should! Mourinho is here for less than a month, there's no miracle! But stating the problem is there doesn't mean we're panicking. It means the other matches (not all of them) made it look like we were already making progress in the area, while I feel we're exactly at the same place where we left off last season. It's not only the attack. The team was sort of scared and lost, Marco seemed a bit nervous (as expected) for the first few minutes, Lamps was playing his first match in months, Mata wasn't available even to play 30 minutes, the hole left by Luiz's absence in our defense is immense. So there are a lot of aspects that should be considered before we state there's a lot of issues. But some of those issues will be there against Manchester United and seeing them now more clearer gives Mourinho a chance to work harder to fix it. He won't fix it in 15 days, but he might improve it better seeing now how the team reacted to a strong opposition, rather than being surprised by it happening in a 3-point match. I remember so clearly when he arrived in Madrid. Trust me, the problems there were deeper and harder to solve than ours. The only thing they didn't have that we do is so many players between age 20-22 (and that's quite the challenge). Their team had older players all around (Casillas, Ramos, Carvalho, Diarra, Pepe, Alonso, Cristiano, Higuain, Kaká etc) while Özil was the only youngster I remember by heart. Marcelo, Benzema, di María, Khedira were all at least 23, so they had the natural adaptation from the new guys, but most of those guys were peaking or approaching their peak... they also had a very complicated problem we don't: confidence. They were Barça's little bitches, a team that had done remarkably bad on UCL exiting on round of 16 for years in a row, there's some crazy amount of pressure from media in Spain - more so than in England imo - especially when you have the names they had back then (that are basically the same names they have now with a few differences). They simply didn't believe they could win against Barça, which meant losing 6 points in La Liga and hoping not to cross with them in UCL. That put a lot of pressure on them wining the other matches, that they had the obligation to win. And they lost many of those matches. Lyon matches (for UCL), middle table teams from Spain come to mind. But Mourinho turned it around. 2010 was terrible (the year, not the season). Who doesn't remember the 0-5 against Barça? Mourinho took his time, fixed one by one the issues (tactically we have the same issues they had back then though for different reasons - except in the attack, but they had issues on their defence, on their DM, on their midfield [the latter more than we do]) although they had amazing players. But Mourinho used the 2010/11 season to work on those issues. When 2011 started you could already see progress in some areas. And then he worked in the self-esteem, he convinced them they could be anyone - even Barça - because they were good, they worked hard and because that was Real Madrid. And the next season not only they win La Liga, but they establish a new points record, goals record and start to turn around the head to head against Barça. It wasn't only psychological, but that was without a doubt the root of most of their problems. Tactically there were mistakes. Mourinho was the one to realize Real Madrid couldn't play like Barça because 1) we'd never outplay Barça in their style 2) it didn't fit our players. I can't even say we were possession oriented, or defence oriented, or whatever tactically. We were just fragile and tried everything. It was Mourinho who realized counter-attack and speed - keeping control, not necessarily possession during the match - would be the key for that team to excel. But to solve the problems the team had Mourinho had to acknowledge them and then he took his time. I think their squad back then is better than our current squad (the starting XI because I think we have more depth than they did), but all we need is some adjustments (I'd say signing a striker and a backup CB because I'm not sure Kalas is there already) and then give time to Mourinho to get to know the team, the players, to see what works and what doesn't. That doesn't come from night to day. I think van Ginkel is enough of an answer to our DM. His partnership with Ramires seems good now - when it's too early and recent - and it's natural to become better as time passes. Of course they'll make mistakes, that's when we can count on Essien and Mikel and even Lampard depending on how we play to get in the team when one doesn't perform well or when one's tired, or injured, etc we have options. Our AM is one of the best in the world (in theory), all we need now is give time for some of those player to mature, others to adapt, others to live up their potential and to find out the style that fits better them individually and collectively. The defence will only have backup issues in my opinion. We can do well with Terry or Cahill by Luiz's side. There's always the possibility of bringing Ivanovic, to use Kalas once in a while (even to add minutes to him). I think we can live with that if we become tactically stronger. Mourinho will improve Luiz and Cahill, but it demands time. I can't talk for other people, but from what I gathered from most we 'didn't overreact' we just had a reality check about where we stand today - after we take into consideration we played Madrid first team while we had serious absences in ours. We have great chances in EPL imo, but I would consider SF in UCL something out of this world. I see our potential being round of 16 or QF depending on the teams we draw. Even a challenging group may present more than we can handle now because UCL starts next month and we'll still be very "green" as we say in Portuguese (meaning not ready enough).

not that I agree with him - I don't because the comparison doesn't make sense as that team right there is the Real Madrid that will play in UCL and I dare anyone here say they played it like a friendly. Some were motivated to bite back on Mourinho, they played totally focused and except for the very end, they didn't stop pressing. So it was no friendly behavior from them and they didn't have technical and tactical issues last season (like us) that prevented them to do well in UCL and LL. They had locker room issues, political issues, relationship issues, but they were ready, they made a few capital mistakes that cost trophies, but they were ready as a squad. We never were, so we basically played the RM we could face in UCL in a few months, but they certainly didn't face the same Chelsea they might face later which is why their short preparation is less important than ours. 60% of their issues were fixed the moment Mourinho left. We on the other hand still had 100% of them when Rafael Benitez left - although I don't like Benitez. BUT I do believe Lukaku is far from being ready to be the guy that will solve our issues in the attack like some here believe. He's not ready, and not only that, he's nowhere near to being ready. He has the same challenges Kevin, Ginkel and Schurrle have - except he has a small edge by having played in EPL last season. Why do I say this edge is small? Because there isn't half the pressure on our midfield (where all those players play) compared to our attack. If Schurrle doesn't deliver, there are 3-4 guys to deliver in his place. If Kevin doesn't deliver it's the same and even with Ginkel is the same because we do have some quality and experience in Essien, Lamps and even Mikel. So while the replacement might not be stellar few people are throwing fits because of AM or DM. Now the attack has been our Achilles heel since Didier left. And that puts a lot of pressure on Lukaku. He's not one of the guys that could improve, he's the guy that HAS to improve the results if we put him in that position. So he will feel the pressure and he's also not ready technically either. He has plenty of potential (and limitations I believe will follow him through all his career, but he doesn't have to excel in everything about being a striker), potential that will be reached with hard work and minutes played... minutes, not whole matches in UCL being the guy the team and the fans count to have it done. It's utterly unfair to give him that mission and I think slightly delusional of us to think he can already step up and take that responsibility. The effectiveness he showed playing in Asia compared to the matches he played in America is there for everyone who wants to see it. And why do you think is that? Why would it be different playing for EPL or UCL where we'll definitely play harder opposition compared to both Milan teams? So if he couldn't capitalize the (few) chances he had now, during friendlies where he had moderate pressure on him, why should we think he'll solve all our problems when the season starts? And trust me some fans believe we don't need Rooney because we have Lukaku (just go there and read both threads to see it for yourself). I don't want Rooney particularly, but I think we need another striker asap and if we don't have another one, imo Hazard, Mata, Moses, and Kevin de Bruyne will end up contributing to our improvement in the attack more than I think Lukaku will - and I meant that by scoring goals, not only assisting Torres and Ba. So I understand your point and agree about the comparison, but I also think he shouldn't be rated so highly as I've seen people rating him here. I don't remember where you stand though - to be honest I don't remember where anyone stands - not even the Belgian members - all I remember is reading posts, but I don't remember who wrote them.

hence why I said it was a reality check - for us, not for the team. Mourinho knows pretty well where this team stands. He saw today better than ever where he should focus his efforts. It's a reality check for us, not losing to RM - the 3-1 score is so meaningless that it makes no sense to bring it up. But it's useful for us to know where the team stands as well. Go read the last two games post-matches and see if we weren't maybe thinking higher from the progress than we should. I use the word 'we' loosely, so don't take it particularly if you were cautious then too. There are undeniable advances compared to last season, the main one being squad depth imo, but all the problems are still there to be handled and obviously they can't be handled in 4 weeks - 3 of them without 5-6 key players to the team. But it's only fair and okay for fans to come here and point those deficiencies as we're doing. This nonchalant reaction 'it's okay, it's only pre-season' is more 'toxic' imo. The main purpose of pre-season is to get fit, get used to the new style, test formations and solve problems. The same way Mourinho saw problems and will talk to his team (of coaches) and then to the squad, we can discuss the same. I didn't read one poster here saying we're fucked, we're a terrible team and that we're such a failure and should add 5 players to the squad. I saw people saying we played a terrible match in some aspects (whoever defends our defence is quite optimistic imo) and that's because of a lot of reasons most people covered: we had a mixed team, they're one of the main teams in the world and they played their best, we have a very young squad, Mourinho is here for less than a month, etc, etc, etc, etc. But that's it. We're just pointing out what should be pointed out in friendlies instead of ignoring all the issues and saying it's okay because it's a friendly or it's okay because it's Madrid. No, it's okay for us to see how deep those problems run and work to fix it. Mourinho says it's okay to have lost. But he stresses that there are things he needs to work on the team and saying so isn't wrong... by him or by fans. Ignore our problems seems unwise. We have to learn what they are to work to improve them.