Barbara

neither did I. I predicted a 2x0 win over Basel and a 4x0 over Fulham. Despite the terrible results in the UCL I stand by both predictions. I think we had team to have beat Basel and I think have Mourinho not made the wrong subs, we would have... maybe not the 2-0 (although the goal was maturing [as we say in Portuguese] when the subs came), but definitely the maintenance of the 1x0.

It's in the same sentence, Chou. If you hear the entire answer you'll see he's talking only about a style and then he illustrates it. But it's all part of the same answer.

he didn't even mean Luiz actually. He was talking about how he wouldn't have 9 players behind the ball and being overly defensively waiting for a mistake and counter-attack chance, so he meant in general, as one of the ways to make a team even more defensive is having CBs playing as DMs.

I actually meant in the diving department which I'm thankful for it. Diving is a shameful football resort - one Neymar isn't shy of using at all matches, as many times as possible - although he's also very much fouled.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/20/jose-mourinho-change-style-chelsea I think Mourinho and I are footie soul mates or something. I've been repeating two days in this thread (and earlier elsewhere) that I absolute despise the football Chelsea have been playing for the last two years. We repeatedly say the same thing - that must be why I like him so much... and also I'm actually good guessing the way he thinks. Football soul mates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> romantic soul mates

He's no Neymar - thank God for that, but I think he sometimes tries to fool the referee. And he falls a lot... and in many of those times no foul is called - most of them. so much that at some point early last season pundits and commentators - in Brazil at least - said that the referees already knew this about him and weren't falling for it anymore. I do agree he's fouled a lot. And the dive I meant sometimes - rarely - the falling I meant constantly. Only last match he fell about 4-5 times and the referee didn't call a foul. We lost possession and he stayed sitting on the pitch.

tried to watch it many times (all Lyon matches)... couldn't hold my interest for longer than 30 minutes... I have an obsession and inexplicable love for Lyon, but not even both things made me watch Ligue 1. I still think it's a light league - but if you think it's physical then it's even worse for Eden. What excuse does he have for falling (sometimes diving) all the time? It seems like he can't take the physical contact - not in a way that it's too much for him, because it's not, he's a chubby little thing, but in a way that he seems not used to it.

both things put a smile on my face

lol he's the one who doubled it as I just checked my original word file and it wasn't like that hahahahahaha Still he polished the whole thing x10. So I'm thankful to my kitten

I included most countries I see our members here being from. Of course I couldn't cover all of them, but I've got the ones I see more members from and added the link to everyone else. I don't know if Jay or Nour came up with in one of their previous previews, I know I've copied from one of them

@francozola, loved Ryan as Awesome in Chuck

The Match The first west London derby of the Premier League season between Chelsea and Fulham kicks off this Saturday at 17:30 BST at Stamford Bridge with both teams struggling for form. Chelsea head into this game on the back of two consecutive defeats – against Everton and Basel – while Fulham have only won 1 of their opening 4 league matches so far. If the Blues are under pressure coming into this match, then the same could be said about Fulham. With their only win coming in the opening match against Sunderland where they won 1-0 at the Stadium of Light – drawn 1 and lost 2 since then -, Martin Jol’s side has been struggling to find any consistency and best form. The Dutchman not only has had several injuries to key players to deal with but also the lack of offensive threat, which has hampered his team. In Fulham’s two Premier League away matches this season – against Sunderland and Newcastle – they have only mounted three attempts on goal and overall, Fulham have produced 36 shots but only 12 of them on target. Chelsea, on the other hand, are not that much better off than their Saturday’s opponents. Having won their opening two league games – against Hull City and Aston Villa – they have then drawn at Old Trafford before losing to Roberto Martinez’s Everton last Saturday while also failing to beat Bayern Munich and Basel in the same period in Europe. Similar to Fulham, the lack of goals especially from the strikers have been an apparent problem for Jose Mourinho’s men as they have scored only 4 league goals – one being an own goal in fact – and while his side have attempted 68 shots in the first four Premier League matches, only 19 of it have been on target. The Portuguese manager will be hoping his side start banging in the goals soon if they are to bounce back from recent disappointment and win major honours this season. Both managers are definitely under pressure though however, Martin Jol looks to be under more scrutiny of two with the Fulham supporters voicing their displeasure at their manager last weekend with the chants of ‘Jol Out!’ in their 1-1 draw against West Brom at Craven Cottage. He will be desperate to get a positive result this weekend to calm the fans but his managerial counterpart will just be as determine if not more to get Chelsea back to winning ways once again. Teams News Chelsea Chelsea come into this game without any injury concerns and all are available for selection as Mourinho confirmed in his press conference earlier today. However despite that, it is still anyone’s guess of the manager’s starting line-up as he has yet to feature the same XI for two consecutive matches with constant changes to the defence and particularly the midfield and attack. On one hand, Mourinho could see the recent poor results as an indication that changes need to be made which then may see the likes of De Bruyne, Cesar Azpilicueta and Ryan Bertrand – who have not played much this season – coming into the starting XI. The other could see him persisting with the same players that he sees will help to get his side out of the trouble which then Oscar and Andre Schurrle may continue to be favored in place of Juan Mata, Willian and also De Bruyne. The selection in attack is also a mystery as Samuel Eto’o has been selected in the past two matches but looks to be lacking still in match fitness having joined during summer from Russian club Anzhi Makhachkala. This could well pave the way for Demba Ba or Fernando Torres to start tomorrow and stake a claim as the best striker in the team. With so many possibilities and few certain starters under Mourinho, this is a probable lineup for tomorrow’s game: Cech, Ivanovic, Luiz, Cahill, Cole, Ramires, Lampard, Schürrle, Oscar, Hazard, Torres (4-2-3-1) Fulham In contrast, Martin Jol has problems to contend with his goalkeeper Maarten Stekelenburg, defenders Aaron Hughes and Matthew Briggs as well as Bryan Ruiz and Darren Bent all unlikely to feature in this game with injuries. Chief striker Dimitar Berbatov, however, is expected to feature despite picking up a minor hamstring injury recently. With that, Jol could well start with the following line-up: Stockdale, Riether, Senderos, Hangeland, Richardson, Duff, Sidwell, Parker, Kacaniklic, Kasami, Berbatov (4-2-3-1) Stats and Facts 1. Chelsea have not lost any of their last 14 Premier League London derbies to Fulham – W7 D7. 2. The Blues, overall, have a record of 14 wins, 6 draws and 2 defeats in 22 Premier League encounters against Fulham. 3. However, Chelsea have drawn 4 of last 7 matches against Fulham at Stamford Bridge and have not scored more than 1 goal in the encounter since 2009/10 season. 4. Jose Mourinho has never lost a Premier League match at Stamford Bridge – W48 D14. 5. Fulham won only 1 of their London away derbies in the 2012-13 Premier League season – 1-0 win against Tottenham at White Hart Lane. Overall, P5 W1 D2 L2. 5. If goals from oppositions' strikers were excluded, Chelsea would be top of the table. 6. Fulham have conceded more corners so far in the Premier League than any other side (32). 7. Fulham have managed only 11 shots from inside the box so far this season; a divisional low. 8. The last non-British manager Jose faced in the Premier League was Martin Jol back in April 2007 when Chelsea beat Tottenham 1-0. 9. Martin Jol has lost both his Premier League matches at Stamford Bridge as Tottenham manager but has drawn both the two matches as Fulham manager. 10. Fernando Torres is yet to record a shot on target in the Premier League in 126 minutes of action. 11. Samuel Eto'o could become the ninth Africa player to score for Chelsea in the Premier League after Weah, Babayaro, Geremi, Drogba, Essien, Kalou, Moses and Ba. Match Odds Chelsea 2/7 Draw 9/2 Fulham 9/1 (odds according to SkyBet) Coverage TV: Australia: Fox Sports 1 Belgium: Sporting 2 Brazil: ESPN Canada: TSN 2 India: ESPN Middle East: Al Jazeera UK: Sky Sports 1 United States: NBC For additional country or region TV schedule listing, you can check it here. Internet: You are likely be able to find many match streams available online to watch the game or alternatively, if you happen to busy and cannot catch the game live, follow TalkChelsea on Twitter with live match commentary provided as the action unfolds. Click here to view article

haven't seen the second post until now, Nour, thanks a lot sweetie. I had just posted the article without it, but I've asked @ to kindly delete it, so I can update with this info. Either way, a newest version containing this data should be up in 3, 2, 1

oh I didn't read because well, is there much to say/read about Torres? My post wasn't about contextualizing with what you guys have been talking, I just wanted to give me opinion about him being our #2 striker option. He has to be it when the alternative is Ba. Torres sucks and normally this thread either makes it worse than it really is, or his fanboys and fangirls try to make him look good or try to convince us there's still hope. Rarely you see a middle-ground post - that in my opinion is that he sucks, he won't get better, but he's still better than Ba and he improved slightly the last months last season and this season he seemed to have carried on that slight improvement. This thread is definitely one of my least fave - so I rarely come here and when I do, I don't read many posts because honestly it's mainly about what I've said above. My post was totally unrelated to any posts before mine, that was what I meant when I said I didn't read the previous posts in the thread.

My main point is that it's too soon to assume anything. My second main point is that we've been mediocre in two seasons and wish that back seems nonsensical in my opinion. My third main point is that I'm behind José Mourinho for at least two seasons. I may moan about him much sooner - and I will if after let's say four months we still look the hot mess we look now. I don't expect him to fix the team in 4 months, but I expect him to give it some shape, to improve it, but the whole thing I think is a season long process. I don't think Benitez would do nothing with this team because I don't like those hypothetical scenarios where there's nothing but imaginary, empiric, not-reliable guessing. I can only assess Benitez's job at Napoli right now because that's where he is and what's tangible. The rest is a bunch of ifs that no one would know if it's true or not. People complaining about Willian, Eto'o and André make our current team the same as last year (at least among the guys playing more often) and still Benitez struggled with that team. The Swansea loss is inexcusable as well as the losses to Everton and Basel under Mourinho, although Benitez had been a bit longer than Mou in charge and had 10 matches under his belt. I think by March Benitez finally improved the team compared to Roberto's standards. That team was no where competitive when it really matter though. We lost to ManCity (twice), Southhampton, and couldn't beat Liverpool or Tottenham. So it means when it really mattered we couldn't win against stronger opposition and we lost against weaker opposition when we shouldn't. We struggled to win easy matches at the Bridge, we struggled against the EL sides when we played away, losing to Steua and Rubin Kazan. All of those matches from March on. January and February were terrible and that was 2-3 months after he was working with the team. We played 16 games in those two months (counting 6 Cup games - 4 of which early stages and one of them a shameful replay against Brentford) the results were 7w, 5d, 4l. That's just awful. Then by March he seemed to finally have settled - realizing among other things that not playing Oscar was a mistake. It took him four months and still people are asking Mourinho's head after one month. Double standards on their best. I don't miss it. Mourinho will have to suck a lot and for too long for me to miss the team under Benitez. Still Rafa's team was better than Robbie's, but no, I don't think we were competitive under Benitez not even from March on. Just in the EPL for every 3 matches we've played in March-May we lost or drew one. We'd win two, then religiously draw or lose the third, and that streak lasted 11 rounds. That's EPL alone - our record in EL was slightly better (losing to both Steua and Rubin). Sorry if I don't think that makes us competitive against real title contenders.

to be honest I didn't read the comments in the thread... I didn't want to post on Ba's thread how terrible he is. So I decided to go the nicer route and say (what I think is true) that Torres >>>>>>> Ba.

Torres is bad - that's the understatement of the century if you ask me, but even him is better than Ba. Ba touched the ball 3 times in the 18 minutes he played. Even Torres would have made better because 2013/14 Torres version while still lousy, at least goes deeper and tries to link up. He still fails - poor thing, it seems beyond his reach to actually perform well - but he at least tries and he might score the odd goal here and there. No more Ba, please, Mou!!!!!!!!!!

Well, so let me make it less suspicious I'm a girl and damn it, he looks hot as heck. There problem solved Ballack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other player we have in the squad, Azpili included.

honestly Tom, I didn't read your previous post, so in all honesty I had no idea you had said that. Of course I only have my word to back me up on that. also it took me 35 minutes to write that post and when I started you haven't post yet. I'm also removing you from that list. I'm more than willing to let our past disagreements go. Let's try not to get into each other's throats. So I'm all for making up (but not kissing ) and letting all of the the past (absolutely all, 100%, everything of it, nothing left) go. Clean slate if you're up to. If I disagree with you, it'll be just because it's a disagreement, it's not because it's you. And if you say something I agree, I'll be more than happy to say so. and it's kind of poetic that only now that I'm finishing this post that I realize that our fight started in this thread and I'm willing to make it end in this thread as well. If you're not up to, I understand, as I may have caused more damaged than you're willing to let go.

bossed our midfield both in the second and final thirds. Still has to improve his passing accuracy (25% or 12 failed passes is a bit too much). Two key passes, one goal, many (5) completed long passes transitioning the ball from the second to the final third. That's what you expect from a #10. He will improve, I have no doubts of that, and he's what's saving us now that both Hazard and Mata are under-performing. André is also playing really well for us, creating chances, producing in the attack midfield. Let's hope his good form carries on and he continues his improvement curve. No doubts though the boy was made to play UCL. If only we started making his goals count

Since playing for us he's always dived or fell when opponents touched him in a certain way - French league is one of the lighter in the world imo, but he continues to fall at the minor contact expecting referees to call a foul when they won't in 80% of the cases he fell. It's taking him more time than necessary to realize the reality in England isn't the same as in France.

I guess we all agree he's a good player - some of us think he's brilliant, others he's just good or great. I don't think it should be our main concern to recover his form - although I also think if he was fit we would be struggling much less. Mourinho's main concern has to be with the team, not a player. He wasn't brought here to manage Mata's career, he was brought here to manage Chelsea FC. Mata shouldn't be a priority at all. He may be the answer to our problems, or he may not. I just don't think we should risk results because of him because we don't know if it will recover him. Please, that's my point. We need Mata to play in high level so we struggle less and start flourish, but we don't know what will make him get there or how long it'll take, so is it worth risking matches because of something that's not completely clear? Both Mourinho and Mata were unlucky with the timing of his injury. It means he lost the most critical part of the season in terms of fitness and it'll take him months to be in the same place (fitness speaking) as the others and we don't know how long (or what) it'll take for him to be the Mata he's been the last two years. I can take the losses, I can take Oscar in the bench. I can't take Oscar in the wing and much less in the pivot just so we can accommodate Mata in the team. If José wants to play Mata, Oscar should be benched, end of it. While Oscar has been very good, he's been far from brilliant. As I said in one of the threads after the loss to Basel, Oscar is playing his best with a Chelsea shirt, still his best is very far from what Hazard and Mata showed wearing the same shirt. We don't know if minutes will actually recover Mata - it isn't as simple as that because if it was the case then Hazard would be killing matches for us as he played 90 minutes at all matches and still he continues to be the biggest disappointment so far (for me). Eden's been mediocre despite playing all matches for 90 minutes. And then all sort of excuses were given: the opponents marking, Mourinho, Ashley Cole, Oscar, the strikers, the lack of Mata when truly the main reason is himself. It seems like he lacks motivation and he's playing sub par to his own level. But I cut him some slack because he's 22. I have to cut a 22-yo some slack when he's so inconsistent. I just hope he won't become another guy with great potential that never really became a great talent. There are way too many examples in football throughout the history to back that up, and I hope Eden doesn't take the same route so many before him took. But Mata is older and more experienced, and maybe he'll make good use of his minutes in the pitch. But what if he gets them and continues to struggle? Then we'll blame Mourinho or Mikel (!!!) as some people did in those two losses? So will everyone here sign in for eventual losses and draws if Mata starts knowing that his lack of fitness will make us lose control of some matches and will support Mourinho for making one player's recover our main goal now? Someone (I honestly don't remember who) mentioned that once Mata was subbed in the match against Everton we lost control of the match. We lost control of the match because André, not Mata, was subbed, because it was André along with Eto'o that created most of our chances and produced most in our attack. Mata stats for that match are as poor as his appearances, so let's at least be fair (according to squawka.com he completed 30 out of 36 passes, and out of those 30, 10 were made in the final third and 0 key-passes, comparing André who had 32/36 and 13 in the final third and 2 key-passes). The same way we lost control of the match against Basel because Oscar was moved to the wing - it doesn't matter who came in, it was Oscar going to a position he's sub par that made our attacking production decrease and gave the chance for Basel to control the actions. Willian being subbed contributed as well because Oscar was laughable compared to Willian in the RW. As it was Mata who came in and he did nothing special, his presence compromised... At the end of the day if Mata and/or Hazard were playing at their highest level we would be doing better. They aren't. Mata has an excuse, Hazard doesn't. Oscar is playing his best, but honestly his best falls short compared to what Mata and Hazard could do, still it doesn't change the fact he's better than Mata now. So the decision to be made is: are we willing to risk matches in order to recover Mata fitness. If the answer is yes, then don't complain when we lose or draw, if the answer is no, so Mata will have to regain form from the bench - if he regains it any time soon. Sometimes confidence can be really important in football (although not as important as in sports like tennis and basketball) and we don't know if he'll be able to regain confidence (if that's one of the problems) if he plays. That's the bottom line, we don't know what will take for him to play well again. We don't know if it's minutes, if it's confidence, if it's a different philosophy... and still people want to take the risk of losing effective production in the attack to have him recovered. I'd take that if the same people didn't go to Mourinho's thread to suggest his should leave, he can't work with this squad, that A, B or C is a better manager than he is or that he sucks. Chelsea is a in a position where there's no win-win unless Hazard and Mata start producing in high level again. Mourinho has his share of responsibility in both things, still his share is very small compared to the players themselves. Mata seems to be doing his best, but he isn't reaching the results he expected. It's not essentially his fault, because he seems to be trying, but we can't deny his attempt hasn't been enough.

My point with Mata was to illustrate this thread... there are 10 criticizing Mou for not playing Mata and then another 10 criticizing for him playing Mata. Which is why I said somehow it's become a lose-lose situation for José. I personally want him to give Mata minutes, but once we're clearly in control (score wise) of the match because obviously Mata is far from his best and he may cost us matches. It doesn't need to an Einstein to know that Mata is unfit because he missed most pre-season!!!!!!! He's not unfit because he's not playing now, he's unfit because he wasn't playing then . Mourinho now has to choose between recovering a player as the season progresses or choosing the best 11 to play. If he chooses Mata and it compromises the result - sometimes it will, sometimes it won't - and then we lose then all impatient 'football fans' will come here criticize him because the team lost! If he doesn't play him they'll come here say he is unfit because he isn't playing now. But let's hear it from the real specialist? Go read what Terry said during pre-season explaining how difficult it is for a player to make up for the lost pre-season time during regular season... maybe coming from a professional people will understand (or give credit)... This is what Mata is going through now and again it can't be that hard to understand, but then again given what I've read in this page, I guess it is . Mourinho didn't play Mata nonstop for 2 years, didn't injure him during pre-season and is trying to give him minutes to find form. Except that the minutes Mata needed this week clearly cost us the result. He's slower than usual, he isn't as accurate, he isn't creating anything and he's his usual useless self when it comes to defense. The man is only human, it's not because he is bad, it's because he's unfit because he missed preparation time because he was injured and also because he had longer vacation because he played Confed Cup. It's a domino effect, one thing led to the next and so on and on and now we have official matches, he's miles behind any of the players in terms of fitness and it's showing during the matches he took part. I couldn't care less if Oscar plays or not, I like Oscar just like I like many others. I'm not into international football - I've watched 3 Brazil NT matches this whole year: two in Confeds Cup and one friendly. That's how much I care about International football seeing as I didn't miss one Chelsea match in 2013. Not one because when we played the same time Madrid played, I chose Chelsea. Unlike so many here, I'm a Chelsea fan, not a Brazil fan or a Brazilian player's fan. We could bench all the brazilian and I wouldn't give a chip because I.don't.care. I care about Chelsea and although I'm a huge Mourinho fan, if he isn't the manager for us as so many seemed so convinced, then I'll join the choir and will ask for a new manager. The difference between us is that I'll do that after at least two seasons. This season is transitional I said this too many times, so I'm willing to give him this season and demand results from the next one on. Then if the next one he fails as well, I'm all for a new manager. Go see if I'm voting on Oscar every MOTM poll unlike some people voting for Hazard who had one good game (nothing brilliant though) and the rest were either okay or poor. Go see if I voted for Luiz or Ramires in all those polls. I want the best for Chelsea, if that's Oscar good, if it's Mata great, if it's my mother fantastic. I couldn't care less if Oscar, another Brazilian or whoever else plays... I know there are plenty of new fans who came because of players from their countries. Don't put all of us in the same mix. I started supporting this team when there was no Brazilian playing there and I won't stop supporting it in a couple of years when maybe the Brazilians will have left. The annoying thing is the lack of patience and unfairness in all this judgment so early in the season - and I'm so happy to have read posts by @Tomo, @Kojo, @GodZola and @kellzfresh, saying basically the same thing.

I'm quoting you because I've been out the whole day and I have to leave again in less than an hour, and this caught my attention - among many other things. What have we won with the 3 amigos and Benitez? So let's bring both things back and win Europa League again, lose all cups and finish 2 digits behind ManUtd - when Rafa started his job we were only 4pts behind Utd. It's simple like that. We want Mata to play? Let's bring back Drogba to win a lucky UCL for us, finish SIXTH in EPL, but at least also bagging a FA cup title. My point is if we had been brilliant before Mourinho, I would get some of the things I read, but we were mediocre through and through. (now the rest of this post isn't an answer to you, but a general answer, don't remember if it fits some of the things you said because I just read 6-7 pages of posts although many of them I skipped after reading 4-5 words in. So from now on this is a general response) I said it in his thread and people peeled me off alive - and that was two months ago - Mata was brilliant in a team that couldn't be farther from impressive. Mata shone in a team that technically and creatively was crap. Let's not allow the UCL title to change the fact that for the last two seasons Chelsea's has hardly been competitive at all. Finishing 6th in EPL is an embarrassment bigger than being knocked out in the UCL group stage last year - although the latter is also embarrassing. Finishing 3rd wouldn't be so embarrassing if 1) United wasn't basically 20 points ahead 2) we didn't have to fight until the last second to finish ahead of Arsenal and Tottenham. Don't people remember that? We haven't been a competitive team in the last two seasons. Say all you want, we weren't. Players gave their lives in the UCL, some players won that title for us, we weren't the best, the second, the third, not even the fourth best team in 2012 when we won it, but that's football and I accept that the best doesn't always win - especially in knock out competitions. The competitions that will show how competitive is a team will always be the national leagues because that's about consistency. Losing or a winning a match out of luck will get you through the next stage in a knock-out competition and sometimes even the title. In the leagues it will get you 3 points - winning or losing them. So all the people here claiming that Mata should be played - because he must be the best player ever born; that Benitez, Robbie or whoever were better than Mourinho, or that Mourinho is destroying the team, do you forget we have been nothing but MEDIOCRE for the past two seasons? And don't give me other names of managers that had never been here because until they are here and prove they can win, they're just your wishful thinking!!!!! I'm pissed beyond limits at all the bullshit I keep reading in this thread and in others. I'm going to come back and quote all of the impatient as heck, unfair as shit, overreacting as fuck people when Mourinho has finally found the best formation and philosophy to this team. I don't know how long it'll take, and if it takes too long - like 6 months, maybe I won't have the chance to have this convo with some people because by then who knows if they'll still be Chelsea fans... Also, Mourinho is making mistakes - some of them justifiable some not. A lot of you are begging him to play Mata - I'm begging him not to play Mata unless the match is won. He played Mata yesterday, it cost us the match. But somehow he's still being criticized - even if he did what so many people criticized him about... Maybe he'll start Mata against Fulham - I hope he doesn't - and if we lose the frigging match don't come here to say crap because like it or not, Mata is costing us matches not because he's crap - he isn't - but because he's completely unfit! Playing with him sometimes feel like playing with 10 or against 12 in matches like yesterday where he kept giving the ball away. Also, of course there's the possibility that some of you are right and Mourinho isn't the right person to work this team, and maybe you'll be right at the end of the season - and not me - and by then he wouldn't still have found a system that works. Then you'll be right and I'll be wrong. It doesn't change the fact that one month and six official matches is still too early for the reactions all over this forum. Six matches mean nothing in the long term... I would totally understand - and I would probably take part of the criticism - if this was happening four months in because four months is more than enough to give a team some shape. but it's been just a bit over four weeks and the overreaction and knee-jerk reaction is so overboard that I wonder... never mind.

I'm starting to hate the kind of thing I read here...