Leif

^^ So you're judging Bakayoko...by actually not judging Bakayoko, but past players who he is not. This is our (my) issue with the pro-Bakayoko squad. It's all 'well other players improve, why can't he?' Nothing about the player he actually is.

The majority on here have been saying Bakayoko is a good player with great potential; the majority have not at all just 'got down and supported him' begrudgingly or otherwise, imo. The majority were absolutely ecstatic that we signed him. No exaggeration. You may've made a comment re: him, maybe more, I don't know; I simply don't remember anyone but myself being highlighted for being anti-Bakayoko, so i thought i was the only one. Apparently i had a meltdown I was vehement and sure; maybe another member or 2 implied 'eh, we can do better.' I do remember a couple people agreeing Fabinho would be more solid long-term. I don't know what you said, but i'm interested to know.

He's not the better player, obviously i'd sooner have Hazard for one season than Sterling for five, but this season Raheem is so much more productive than I think Hazard's ever been. But, if Hazard played for City...he might get a goal and assist every single game.

Valencia vs. Barcelona tonight. Most interesting game of the season so far. I've little hope for Valencia, but just have to watch it.

You only appreciate full/wing-backs when you finally have really dire ones. I'm totally happy though with Alonso being faded into a bench option. He's good enough for sure. I don't know who'd suit these problematic positions though. I don't think Alex Sandro would be the best LB in the league should he come, but for the fee he'd cost, he should be. All the best left-backs in Spain right now are quite short & also young. Kolarov is the best LB in Italy this season which says everything about their lack of quality over there. We're a bit screwed, unless we swallow our pride and go in for Bertrand for a couple of seasons I think. (Anyone bossing it in France or Germany this season?)

'It's always the same people' - Well, i'm literally the only person, which i don't say with pride, who has maintained before he even played a game for us that he's not good enough. So i'm exempt from any potential 'knee jerk reaction' crowd. I can't be painted with a brush of over-reaction which i think you just alluded to. As for others, this is pretty much the first time i've seen anyone else other than 1, agree that he isn't good enough. So, 'Always the same people?' Who? (Fallacy; just like the unfounded predictions that he'll improve, based on nothing more concrete than guessing the numbers for the lottery.) For all this talk of getting off his back, nobody on Bakayoko's side seems able to highlight what he adds to the team. Maybe it's 'always the same people' who never have any criticisms at all, & are so passive about scrutinising quality or lack-of, that we'd be relegated with them in charge.

That's a pretty shortsighted view. Ramires bossed United. Mikel had good games against United. Matic had good games vs. United. So?

What's pathetic is pretending this is a knee-jerk reaction based on 1 game. That isn't the case. The case has been clear long enough, and now people are getting fed up.

I'm an advocate for resting him as much as possible these days simply so that other players learn to step up, and new habits are drilled into them so that the default isn't always 'get the ball to Hazard and pray'. Pedro and Willian aren't exceptional individually, but there's still hope they can build better chemistry with the players around them, which just won't happen for as long as we allow them to play second-fiddle.

Certainly a few times today he had me missing Bosingwa.

I don't see any irony in these criticisms, which are certainly not merely moans. Who have we sold, and regretted, who performed like Bakayoko? We don't regret selling Matic. De Bruyne was obviously dripping in quality even under Mourinho. Selling Salah was absolutely the right thing to do - he's great at what he does, but what he does is limited, and won't consistently bring you to cup finals. We have no regrets over the Lukaku sale. No regrets re: Mata. No regrets re: Oscar. Nor Diego Costa for most of us, I think. It's fantasy to pretend we've gone through this before with other players. We haven't moaned moaned moaned about a player, only to be like 'How come we sold him!!!!!' seasons on. Not once in my memory. We're back where we were a few seasons ago. Unfortunately with players who cost so much, that neither the coach or the board will have the balls to cut their losses early. So, we'll be mediocre for something like 2-3 more seasons, finally phase Bakayoko into a bench player, introduce someone who can pass well from deep, and then enjoy 1 year of success. It's how we roll.

I agree with all of that. At the same time, a big part of our struggle is playing 5 defenders and expecting to play strong teams off the field. And this 5-defender-scenario only happens because we don't have the players required to play like a top team should - which I personally believe is the fault of other people from the club. Conte plays the hand he was dealt. I think we'd be far worse without him. He clearly recognised we don't have the quality, so he tailor-made an odd system for us, which at least makes us somewhat able to grind out results most of the time. I have so much respect for the man because of that. I imagine if we had chests full of cash (a Chelsea supporter, trying to imagine his club having more money...dreadful), and brought in better players, we'd be great under Conte, no matter who we faced. Just go back to a regular 4-2-3-1, Morata up top, Hazard behind; 2 brand new brilliant wingers; 2 brand new brilliant full backs; and then a real partner for Kante. Easier said than done though. 5-6 XI-level players short.

Around £9m off Pogba's fee

Would love to avoid defeat here, but never, ever could I celebrate a draw against a consistently Europa League side.

Decent isn't good enough. He offered nothing a player should offer when they start for league-winners. Rudiger will not come good. I'm not getting into a talk about him, all respect to you. (Good enough for Everton, i'll leave it at that.)

The media & many casual fans are incredibly ignorant re: Salah. Why would he have any beef with us at all? When it was clear as day that the supporters, the players, have no qualms with him, only Mourinho did? Watch him enjoy goals against United. All we did was give him the exposure he needed to eventually flourish. He appreciates us.

Bakayoko was signed because of what the papers said about him. Rudiger was signed because of what papers in 2013 said about him. Drinkwater was signed because, yet again, on paper, he seemed impressive having won a title. Emenalo spearheaded all of this. Turned us straight into a B-level team with the snap of a finger. Torres was a more worthwhile investment than all these players combined, no hyperbole.

If he can't pass well. Nor defend well. Nor finish well. Nor cross. Nor run. Nor take set pieces. Nor win most aerial duels despite his frame. Nor play one-touch passes. Nor direct the ball in a helpful direction with his head. What can he do well consistently?

Was Bakayoko just in front of goal, with the ball 5 inches in front of him? And it somehow ended up with a Liverpool player 10ft away?

No more long posts explaining 'potential'. Use your eyes. He is fucking pathetic. Dreadful. Embarrassing. Lazy. Stupid. Worthless to our team. One of the worst midfielders I've ever seen play for any top team.

Bakayoko is a fucking pathetic player. Don't show faith in him again if you want your future opinions to be taken seriously IMO.

Regardless what happens, I do see Hazard coming off, which is infuriating.