robsblubot

Lamps and cole are being measured against their younger versions. David is being measured against the player he never was, nor will be. Goals were never really part of his repertoire, technical ability spec passing is. If his assets are deemed unimportant then yeah he should be sold.

not talking about success or quality here, but styles, characteristics. It's like buying a Lamborghini and expecting the low upkeep of a honda. My point remains his characteristics have not changed one bit, and Brazil is absolutely fine with that. Just like others would be, hence his current valuation. That's why the comparison makes no sense - try and sell Torres for 50m right now... remember Matic was worth what 5m then? That has nothing to do with Luiz. Again, there are many systems in football. Jose's isn't the only one, nor is it the best one according to many, myself included. Consistency is relative to the system and how well the players and their characteristics work in that system. People talking about consistency ignore the atrocious games the duo Gary and Terry had, conceding 2-3 goals per game.

well what I think does not matter that much does it? I just think Luiz cannot win at Chelsea with too many things going against him. Yeah Matic leaving was a mistake, but don't worry about the money on Luiz; I feel we will make it all back as his style of play does suit other (than Jose's) systems just fine-some of them more than fine.

yeah I noticed that too, which is very ironic. He was clearly trying very hard to play simple, like a "proper" English CB - you know only the English know how to produce world class CBs according to this thread. Obviously having the "right mentality" - stoic and composed - entitle all Englishmen to play fantastic football. Do people actually believe Chelsea thought he was a different type of player when they bought him? 21M plus Matic for his potential at 24/25? WTF?! Chelsea knew exactly what they were getting. Agree he should leave though.

well I began my first post by saying Jose said he won't do it and as usual you chose to ignore that bit. Either way, I don't really care about what Jose said. I think it is an interesting variation, and Benitez was right to use it a few times. I wasn't clear enough I guess, because you completely missed the point, or you are just being difficult for no reason as usual. Regardless, let me try again... all Barcelona players are midfielders who occasionally have to play in their original positions (except the GK of course); these variations happen during a match. They practice "total football" to the letter. That's why they can play Mascherano as a CB. So, the fact they want DL, thought there was an actual offer last summer, indicates he must be capable of playing in midfield. That is at least my understanding and it matches what I see on the pitch.

because he already has - under benitez and for a few minutes against Arsenal recently. And I just see him do it... he can shield the ball, did it today beautifully, similar to Mikel (Swansea player bounced off of him and fell on the ground). He can keep possession because he's a good/great passer. And interceptions (aka ball-winning) happens to be his forte as a defender. His biggest deficiencies, lack of concentration and positional sense, are less important in the midfield with another line sitting behind him. That's exactly the reason Barcelona wants him: he is a CB/DM/CM in one player. All of their players (aside from the GK) are midfielders one way or another.

The only other player we've got who could do a similar job in the midfield as a ball-winning midfielder, is David Luiz. I know Jose said he wasn't going to do it, but he is the only player with that same restlessness that Ramires has; some say that's his problem as a CB, and a virtue as a holding mid (actually think Mikel lacks that very same thing for the position). I just can't see Essien or Mikel doing anything similar in terms or harassment, pace, and physical play.

heh true on Ramires, but what of Mikel?! Yes, we shouldn't expect much contribution from Mikel in the attack, but when we start him, a purely defensive player, at home against a team who aren't very strong in attack, but defend well, it is a bit puzzling. Or perhaps Jose thought we haven't been defending well enough to go without a holding mid. Mikel did miss a chance, I mean it wasn't a chance because he did not even try to score, but it could have been one. Regardless, as I watch City, they don't really play any holding mids. Both Fernandinho and Toure are B2B and amazing players at that. They can defend, hold the ball, or make runs all in the same game depending on the situation as the match progresses. We don't have that either. Ramires can either make runs or defend (seen him do both), but not hold the ball. As much as I like Willian, I thought we bought the wrong Brazilian. At least we don't have a player as poor as Lescott on our roster.

well, City do have amazing CMs, prob best in the league. Not to mention great players in every position - they have a stronger squad than Liverpool. Liverpool's Brendan plays good in possession, but they lack quality in certain positions, and heavily lack strength in depth. To me this is the very best lineup we've got, with the exception of Eto'o. Yes, I still believe Torres is the better striker we've got. We could certainly improve in certain positions, but until then this is it. We just can't play this well and be fighting to keep the score until the final whistle. Not to mention every time we won't be playing this well and we will need a striker to pull something special like Surez and Aguero do on a regular basis. Oh well. Liverpool will be the less fit side on Sunday. just realized Ramires is suspended.

Mikel is tackling and fighting for the ball on the left, does not win it, then swansea switches to the right, and Mikel is jogging to the center of the pitch... I don't get it. He should've been sprinting to the center to stop play there. And he's doing OK, just think he lacks that extra bit of speed and movement.

awful finish... striker has to at least hit the football proper!

wow! what a performance so far! pressure on the ball... creating chances... really good football!

Yup specially a flamboyant cb at that. Funny how some now conveniently ignore the fact he hasn't really lost any value; if we wanted to sell him, we could, and at a profit. The fact selling Matic was a mistake really has nothing to do with luiz.

so, how many players does it take, you know defending, to help us keep a clean sheet? Because my answer right now is 11. My philosophy is simple: each system should demand as little as possible from the others. A team that has 11 players committed to defending to keep a clean sheet have bad defense. Same for the attack: an attack that needs a lot of help from mid and fbacks is no attack at all. my gut feeling is that Jose is, with his system and drive, is just delaying the inevitable... I'm sorry to say. BTW, DL in the middle should be used more often as he really created problems for arsenal tonight. BTW2, Belgium 11%+ ales are evil...

He certainly played to get the draw... I don't know how much the conditions helped us, because Arsenal passing was just a bit slower than usual. The few times they've upped the tempo they created chances. So, I'm not going to take too much from this as we did not see much football from either side. Terry was MotM for sure. Cech did have that one crucial save: saw that he made the block from Gibbs cross. Mikel was lucky to be on pitch because that could've been easily a red card. Decent result with a very typical Mourinho-esque counter-attacking strategy. Hazard had to go; he was the only player close to creating anything for Chelsea and on top of that he was defending well. So, imagine the horror if he assisted someone or scored a goal himself.

Yeah because we don't watch him play every match for Brazil, sometimes as Captain... and we don't see him setting up Neymar, Hulk, and others with perfect long passes about 3-4 times every match. If you don't disagree with certain opinions, that's fine, but don't try to disqualify them, because frankly you can't. We all have our personal opinions, and they have the same value on this forum. I've been watching this game for many years and seen many great defenders play, some of them live. Some of them were also starters for Brazil. David Luiz is the most technical defender I've ever seen play for Brazil. Mauro Galvao (Brazil 90') comes close, but DL is just more technical. Not even mentioning some of his amazing plays when in midfield. We can discuss other deficiencies he may have, and he does, but please let's not discuss his technical ability.

Shirley is the best striker of the bunch for me. He's a better finisher than Torres and an overall better player than Ba. Eto'o is the only one who could challenge that, but too many unknowns.

That's very subjective. It really depends on the system and other players around. He looks more assertive and has been better than Silva for Brazil for example. Reckon that he will have a real easy time adapting to Barcelona because technique, esp passing is the #1 skill in their system. Luiz is without a doubt the best cb when it comes to passing, which explains why barca want him. He will be massive for them unfortunately. His ability to play in the midfield will also help their system. They could regain their top form with luiz spec once messi is back to form.

perhaps I am inaccurate when assessing RM and specially Mourinho at RM, but once again, that's not my point. I don't care who the manager is, but if you give him scrappy squad he will play scrappy football. RM are so big that you just can't attribute all success they have or had to a single manager. Of course winning the CL is no easy feat, but Bayern has been making it to the finals very consistently; to me that's more of a sign of a system than a sporadic win like we did. How many CL did Barcelona win, or reached the finals in the last 10 years? no single player can give you that - only a successful system can. The same system that has been successful for Spain at international level, and the same system that has been failing them, at club and international level too. Perhaps the players, like you said, are indeed getting old.

Whoa! That's what we do here... we disagree... otherwise this forum would be a lot less fun. That was the least important point I made in my post, at least the one least cared about. I made a mistake though; Jose was hired to win the champions league and he failed at that. Real Madrid spend way too much money to be content with La Liga wins, even by beating Barcelona. BTW, I am not talking about clubs, but systems. Barcelona's system is superior even with less expensive players on their roster. It's a big tangent and I feel I am not qualified (less than BPL teams I mean) to talk about Real as I don't care that much about them - even though I prefer them to Barca.

Regardless of personal preferences... there have been, and there are, many successful systems in football. Jose's system hasn't been that successful for a very long time. Yes, he did well at Inter, but no such luck at Real, especially against Barcelona. He was hired to beat Barcelona and he was unable to. My personal view is that both Barcelona, aside from the defensive problem they currently have (no CB whatsoever), and Bayern employ the best systems, with a slight edge for Bayern because they are a bit more aggressive and direct. These teams have very technical players in every position - no simple no nonsense player there. They all know what to do with the football once they retake it and to me that's their edge against the other sides. People talking about defending, but defending is the responsibility of the entire team. So is attacking and keeping possession. How to keep possession if some of your players are not good passers? Don't matter where they play, they will eventually get involved and not able to pass. We've been poorer than the standings show. We should've lost against WBA at home. But the most striking thing is that we've only beaten a single side from the top half of the standings: Southampton. We lost to newcastle and everton. Our wins, as I've pointed out then, have been mostly against the worse sides in the Premiere. Fulham and West Ham are shit right now and will prob be in or very close to the relegation zone at the end. I don't share this adoration with managers some here do. Yes, Jose was successful at Chelsea, but that wasn't all due to him. He had an amazing and extremely expensive squad at his disposal. He's certainly a good manager, but he doesn't get to kick the football. Without the right players, and top players, there is only so much a manager can do. I've always thought a team should focus on the players and should have their own long-term planning, independently from any manager...because they do come and go.

This is not about who made a mistake here or there, at least not to me. It's about how one handles the difficulties created by the opponents. Cahill's defending for the second goal showcases why I dislike him: it was passive. He tried to block a couple of times, and all the attacker had to do was to pretend to take a shot which causes Cahill to pause - never making a move towards the attacker. Aside from this type of passive defending that I dislike (favoring blocks) I think he's an overall pretty poor passer. Again, if our defensive system was working at all, Cahill, Luiz, and Terry, wouldn't be facing the attackers one-on-one all the time, but I am just answering your question. However, with our midfield ATM a 25yo Franco Baresi (or Maldini) wouldn't stop us from conceding.

I've already said what I think of Gary as a player. However! When the attack can't score goals and the back can't defend, look in the middle... Decent/good players can produce good performances when the system helps them. The system is not helping anyone atm. It could be very well be that the short term solution would be to move Luiz into the midfield, and/or sweeper (same thing depending on movement). But that's for Jose to figure out. Start Shirley, Torres, Eto'o, OK maybe not Ba, for City, or Bayern and see how much easier it will be for them to score. We can't go on blaming the players for every mishap they have. They need above all confidence to play and you can see they are lacking it. They are not making the runs they ought to. They are not helping each other the way good teams do. Not long ago the same players have performed a lot better.

Yeah all those crazies who prefer the 30m-rated and sougth-after player over the 7m no one wants. People of course can have their own personal preferences, but consider that you may actually be the crazy ones.

I'm not saying it, the transfer market is. All you have to do is listen to what it has to say. Our personal preferences should go only so far...