Chelsea Legend 11

World class players play at their top level 90% of the time. Excellent players 80% Good to great players 60% I say Hazard is getting close to World class and Oscar is a great... Willian, good.

I think you completely missed what I've said

Nah dude. This has everything to do with how each member is tactically deployed. Jose doesn't allow for more than one player to have a free role on the squad. The objective is for everyone to work hard without the ball and release Hazard into space. He is another level in terms of talent and very difficult to duplicate... What we do need is a fucking striker.

Absolutely! And I wouldn't mind him either at the right price.

No I'm not in charge of transfers and I'm sure whatever Chelsea do will be whats best for the club. In my eyes paying 20m for an 18yr old LB is not in the best interest of the club, but then again I didn't think 50m for Torres was either...

We need homegrown players, yes... Do we need them to play big minutes for us in high profile fixtures? No. The association rule doesn't mean they have to play x-amount of games it just means they are on the 23man roster, like Bertrand was at the beginning of the year. I want the best players, I'm sympathetic to Shaw because he is homegrown and a supporter I just don't want him for 20M. As for Rodriguez I've watched him and he looks fan-fucking-tastic for Wolfsburg. He make never adjust to the Prem, Shaw may never adjust to the pressure of playing for Chelsea.. these are things we can never answer. All I know is if I'm gonna pay 20m for a LB right now its not gonna be on Shaw, it is WITHOUT A DOUBT gonna be Rodriguez.

So what? Why is that important? who's to say Shaw will be good enough to play at that level anyway?

How many world class LB's are there in the EPL right now? just because he is arguably one of the better LB's doesn't make him a 20m+ player in my estimation. He is considered such because he is English first and has potential... We may well go for Shaw, I'm not against it either. If its anywhere near 20m+ I will be though... He's got potential but his actual value isn't there. Also I agree he can play at a higher level its what level that is that I'm debating, particularly for the money. He's good, just not World Class good in my humble opinion

I'm not disagreeing with you... its still 4-3-3 to me

What are you talking about? I expect us to buy talent that can play on a top 5 side in the world. I expect us to DEVELOP homegrown talent instead of overpaying for English potential.

Homegrown players don't have to be on the pitch... Do YOU not understand that? Bertrand is homegrown.

sure.

much better

I'm not so sure of that. We have differing opinions obviously... I wouldn't be disappointed with Shaw.

Not ridiculous just not likely. You're forgetting this is a club that bought 5 no.10's and Schurrle, Marin and Moses... Again, if it came down to Shaw and Rodriguez I'd take Ricardo based on what I've seen. I've watched him against Bayern, Dortmund, Hamburg, Stuttgart and Leverkusen and in those games I can assure you he was right up there as one of the best players in the match... Not exaggerating AT ALL! He is that good... DeBruyne is without a doubt good enough for the Premier league just not good enough for the way Chelsea want to play... much like how Mata wasn't, let's not go off the deep end. If I told you that in every game I saw Rodriguez in he played exactly like this youtube video what would you say?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIHe9by9tFA

I love the fact Shaw is a Chelsea supporter... I've said about a million times I wan BOTH. If it came down to one or the other I'd take the guy who is not just shown potential but is actually playing at an elite level for the money. You seem to think that at his current level, Shaw is good enough to play for one of the top sides in the world and feature in the Champions league. I'm not so sure whereas I am Rodriguez is that player based on what I've seen of him. Watch him play and then let me know what you think... Put aside the nationality and just look at how they play, Rodriguez is without a doubt the better player and I really like Shaw...

If you're referring to me than a few things you need to consider. I want Shaw just not for anything more than 18m. Anything more than that is overpayment. My opinion. Homegrown is nice to have but its not essential, in the champions league it means more if he can actually play at that level for one of the top 5 teams in the world. Enough with the feel good story about him loving Chelsea... If he can't play at this level what does it matter if he grew up a Chelsea fan? The difference between our arguments are you want him at all costs, you believe he is ready to play at the highest level in europe. I believe he has potential but his true value isn't anywhere near 20m. I need more than him being a fan and English for him to be valued at 20M

You could be right. I'm just not sure...

So now because one of the best teams in the world last year didn't win a trophy is solely because Essien played RB for them? There can only be one winner they fell short, I doubt thats because of Essien... but I digress. We'd also be set with Azpi and Rodriguez, probably even more so if you were to ask me! But to address the first part of your statement, I swear its like you're only seeing half of what I wrote. The FB position is important... Its just not the most valuable position on the pitch. I have never seen a LB go to any team for more than 30M its just the truth. Okay so for you Shaw is the better by because he is EPL trained and a Chelsea supporter? To me, the whole EPL trained thing is overused. The best players in the EPL aren't EPL trained. Its about buying value which is what we've done since the Torres debacle. I love the fact Shaw is a Chelsea supporter, I want him! I just don't want him for anywhere near 20m. If it comes down to paying that for a LB I'll take the current form player over the potential player any day of the week. Cool, lets just carry on conversing at the level of our age group. I don't believe in paying over the odds on potential... Had this been 2009? SURE sign him up!!! But now, Sorry 20M for a LB with potential is madness... He will be good, of that I have no doubt, its just whether he is good enough to be world class and if he can be considered the best at his position now. I'm just not sure.

Just my opinion but I wonder if the reason Azpi is playing LB has more to do with Cole's decline rather than Brana's ascension? I mean if you rank our FB's I'd say its Azpi Brana Cole Its definitely easier to convert a RB to LB than to convert a CB to a RB to a LB... I believe we're using Azpi at LB until we can get one in the next window which will allow Azpi to play RB and Brana to be our Utility defender...

Dude, there is no need for insults... If you wanna carry on like a little baby don't bother replying to my post. If you wanna have real dialogue and real debate please refrain from the kiddie comments. I like Shaw I think he has decent potential but its just potential right now... The reason why we're looking at Rodriguez is because he has matured into one of the best in the world right now. People develop at different rates, some show early potential and never realize it, others bloom later and never look back. It is a ridiculous debate to engage in when you say "look at what so and so did when he was 18 vs. this guy at the same age" everyone is different. That's more than fine for me, I've watched him a lot and he IS right up there as far as LB's go... Okay you rate him higher than Baines and Cole... gotcha, no need to carry on this conversation then. He is good!! we aren't debating the merits of how good Luke Shaw is! Its whether he's good enough to command over £20m at the age of 18... I don't think that's where his value lies and there are no guarantees on potential he could very well be playing the best football of his career right now. You have already been patronizing and haven't proven anything. LB and RB are important positions on the pitch just not AS important as other positions on the pitch... Put it this way Real Madrid, one of the top teams in the world played Michael Essien at RB last year... Fullbacks are used more like wingers now too. again, with your 'holier than thou' bullshit... How old are you anyway?

You could be right. I'm not saying spend 40+m on the two either, I think that number is inflated. Cole is pretty much gone and Azpi is playing out of position because he is good. That doesn't mean he stays there for the rest of his career, I would imagine we definitely buy one LB who is ready to start in Europe now and have another who has the potential to be great in a few years, while we use Azpi as a secondary bridge for our young LB. Also Brana can't play RB forever especially the way the game is being played now.

actual value? Shaw is definitely not close to as good as Azpilicueta but since he's English I'd say he's in and around £15M. His actual Value right now though... £10M He doesn't win a lot of tackles, doesn't disrupt the attack at all(with interceptions)... What he does do well is get by his man and has decent pace. I'm not against signing him but lets not get carried away, the things he does well are not elite and its hard to gauge what that will be like in a few years.

I fail to see where that actually impacts what I've said, most games are still won and lost in the middle of the pitch. What is the most a LB or RB was ever sold for? of course the position is vital but is it more valuable than a DM, CB, CF? History says no. Yes but that doesn't detract from what I've said either, I agree, it doesn't mean you spend upwards of 25m for a LB's potential though

Maybe I'm missing something, what is it that Shaw does at a world class level? how many games has he played in Europe? aren't those prerequisites for guys to command £20m at LB? I mean even Cesar was bought for £9m and had Spanish experience and European experience... I don't know how much Shaw will go for(if he goes) but anything over 18M(and that's high if you ask me) is a gross overpayment. You can make the argument that Rodriguez is one of the top 5 LB's in the world right now with room to grow he does just about everything better than Shaw(and yes I have seen him play A LOT) The age doesn't matter either England is not exactly producing the best talent around the world and furthermore its a midseason friendly... If he can hold down a regular spot with England that would be fantastic but at current its his first cap and its unlikely he will even play... We'll see. As far as him being English and a Chelsea supporter I've already said I love that, its not going to possess me to go above and beyond what he's actually worth though. He has good potential and could develop into one of the Premier leagues best but right now paying over £20m for him is nuts... Just my opinion though