Superblue

Agree, I think I mentioned this the other day before the old forum was restored, but every time they'd show training clips under Lampard it was almost always rondos and shooting practice. I know they can't show too much that would give away tactics, etc but already clips and photos of Tuchel's training seem so much more technical and varied. The other thing to note is just how animated Tuchel is on the sidelines and in training, regularly giving instructions and encouragement. Again, under Lampard, that just didn't seem to happen so it only put him in a worse light when we're losing games or playing poor and he seems to be offering nothing to the team from the bench.

I can partly understand the emotional attachment with regards to Lampard because I think when you have a top tier club legend coming in, there's probably an even bigger desire and hope for them to do well and given his standing and lack of experience in coaching, I think that he could be afforded some slack last season, particularly as ultimately we ended up making the top 4 which a lot of people didn't expect us to do. However, that can only last so far and any Chelsea fan using their head over their heart would say that there wasn't any improvement on last season. If anything it was getting progressively worse, and he didn't seem to have answers to the questions. For the sake of saving the season unfortunately Lampard had to go and so far, that has been emphatically justified. One of the biggest gripes it seemed with changing the manager was the academy players and the mass hysteria regarding our line up for the Wolves game I think just exacerbated this point. But he's shown so far that the academy players will play a big part in his group, alongside the more experienced players. The difference between Tuchel and Benitez like has been pointed out is that Tuchel has never done anything to disrespect or antagonise the fan base. If we keep winning games and he can keep evolving this team then that part of the fan base's discontent will dissipate in time. He's actually probably benefited from no fans in the stadium for these initial games and if we continue the good form, I don't see issues when the fans are back. Regarding Tuchel, I was sceptical at first but only really because of his past history of falling out with the board and becoming difficult to manage. He has addressed this and hopefully it is something he is working on, rather than trying to pull the wool over people's eyes a la Mourinho. Away from that though he looks like being a top manager in the making for us, tactically on point, intelligent, charismatic. I think he could end up being a real blessing in disguise for the young group of players we have within our squad.

I think his early season form was enough to suggest that he will be a good long term signing for us. You could argue the same about James who's form has also dropped off from the start of the season. I think similar to Werner, he's been flogged to death so far this season and looks mentally and physically fatigued at the moment and is clearly low on confidence. He's also having to adapt to a new formation and role which is one Alonso is already accustomed to. I think the new manager is a good thing for him, Alonso will apply pressure to his place in the team and some rotation should freshen him up. Sheffield United have a knack of making pretty much anyone they play look fairly average and their own set up left no real space out wide for the wing backs to operate. I think over time Tuchel will move away from the back 3 and at that point there's absolutely no debate that Chilwell is the best left back at the club and when in form, for me, is one of the best left backs in the league.

By no means the best of performances, but a huge win. With Leicester and Liverpool playing each other next, a win at home to Newcastle could have us right back in the mix amongst those two. I think Tuchel has done the right thing, he's put in place a structure that has so far made us look defensively solid and in a position to control the midfield. Sheffield United stopped us playing out the back in the first half, but I felt in the second half we had much more control and besides Rudiger's cock up I didn't feel like we were under much threat. There definitely needs to be some improvement in the attacking play. Whilst we wrestled control in the second half, Jorginho seemed to revert back to slowing down the play, in comparison to the Burnley and Spurs games where he was looking to pass the ball quicker and forward with more regularity. The first goal was really superb football all round and shows what we are capable of, but currently there's just not enough of that. I think though over time Tuchel will get that side of the game becoming far more fluid and dangerous.

I think the core of the team will be retained (keeper, back 3, midfield pivot) besides Thiago Silva, so expect Christensen to play in there. The other positions I think he could look to freshen up. So many options now he can go for in those wing back and attacking trio positions. Tough game, Sheffield United look like they've just started to click a little bit now and even recently when they've lost they've kept games close which makes it even more vital we start finding a killer touch in front of goal.

I'd agree with the West Ham game, it followed the trend of the Wolves and Villa games where instead of gaining confidence from going ahead and killing the game off, we got nervous and tried holding on to a 1-0. The West Ham game could have easily gone the way of the Wolves and Villa games. I think it's more harsh to say there has been no progress this season. It's easy now to forget we were top a month ago. Whilst the attacking play was still very much a work in progress, we did look like we had goals in us and there was far more intent and pace in our play. Lampard had seemed to address a number of the defensive issues from last year and found a more solid shape for us, and our set pieces at both ends of the pitch had improved significantly upon last year. Both these things seemed to form a more solid base to work from this season but all that good work seems to have been thrown away in a bit of a panic. The biggest concern for me is as this run has gone on, some of the defensive problems we had last year have come back into our game. As our attack has become almost non-existent we've completely lost our shape too with it, which came to a head against City. That third goal would be comical if it wasn't us suffering it. The City game was set up to sit a little deeper, win the ball around our box and hit the ball early over the top of their high line for Werner and Pulisic to chase. I was sure given the line up, this would be the tactic used. It was baffling to see us try and press and engage high up the pitch, it plays right into their hands and once beating the first press, the defence had no protection whatsoever, a common trend last season.

I'm not using it as an excuse, it's clear that at the moment there are big problems and a huge regression in the group that can't just be attributed to needing time and patience. But I think in situations like this, everything gets analysed and questioned, and in certain aspects (for example leadership) there does have to be some consideration that we have a lot of young players who are hopefully going to be the foundation of the team for many years to come, that do need some time, patience and development before we're going to see such characteristics.

You would expect the academy boys to fill these roles in time, but they need the chance to grow into that. Whilst we could all see Terry was captain material from an early age, he wasn't the same player and leader at 20 - 22 then he evolved into a couple of years later. He had the opportunity to learn off the likes of Desailly, Lebouf, Zola, etc. Not necessarily players that may have been able to teach him about the pride of playing for Chelsea, that should have already been ingrained in him by coming through our academy. But the experience of leading by example, helping and managing different personalities in the dressing room, managing pressure, training and preparation, representing the club properly, etc. That takes time but there are definitely players in our dressing room who can provide that same experience to our younger group - the likes of Azpilicueta, Kante, Giroud. Like everything else at the moment, it needs patience which is difficult to accept when the club is struggling so badly in recent weeks.

As crazy as it might sound, I'd arguably find some of the aspects of supporting the club under less pressure to be successful far more enjoyable. As great as the league wins and Champions League were, I'm not sure if it was ever better for me than the late 90's where we played great football, but the expectations were far lower so the few trophies we did win felt such a bigger deal.

He said this on a radio interview when I believe he was still Swansea manager. A lot of time has passed since this. I think whilst the board are still demanding, they don't appear to be as ruthless as they once were and he himself has also experienced managing at the top end with Liverpool and how quick things can change (sacked within a season of nearly winning the title).

To be honest, aside from the initial athletic report last night, it seems to have calmed down a bit again. The pressure has definitely gone up several notches and more questions are being asked throughout the media whether he's right for the job, but there doesn't seem enough there at present to suggest a change is imminent.

I completely agree, if either was available and willing to move immediately then I would argue the pair are top of the list of realistic appointments. I was merely expressing my biggest concern with regards to both of them. The patience that both have been afforded previously to stamp their philosophy on a team may not be as apparent here. Sarri's time here highlighted this problem whether the board and fans alike are willing to take initial teething problems.

It has to be taken into consideration. Lampard is obviously different given his inexperience but we've already seen previously with AVB and also Di Matteo once given the reigns full time, how quickly things can unravel when the pressure mounts. We're a huge club, with a large worldwide fanbase and a recent track record of challenging for, and winning trophies. I wouldn't be against a Hassenhuttl or Nagelsman appointment because as I mentioned previously the potential rewards of such an appointment could be huge. However there has to be a consideration over just what a step up Southampton and Leipzig are to managing Chelsea.

I agree, on an earlier post today I mentioned the same about Nagelsman. I would view the likes of Hassenhuttl and Nagelsman as riskier appointments than Tuchel and Allegri but I think the potential reward and upside is greater.

I like Hassenhuttl and I've been very impressed with the football Southampton play under him given the resources and (lack of) talent at his disposal. My biggest concern with him would be the step up to managing a club the size of Chelsea and the pressures that brings.

I suppose one thing regarding Tuchel or a similarly combustible personality is hopefully the presence of Cech would now ease such relations having a potential 'sounding board' with the powers above. I think the club, whilst not prepared to tolerate the outbursts from the likes of Jose and Conte, have looked to address such issues with structural changes to the hierarchy. That may help someone like a Tuchel work in a Chelsea environment.

Benitez would be a massive step backwards in my opinion bringing in someone more defensive minded, only to then go for a more attack minded coach in the summer I don't think will help the players at all. Also I'm not sure if he'd take the job, he seemed pretty pissed off with the lack of support from the board the first time he was here with the 'interim' tag, so cannot see why he'd want to come back and do that stint again. Also I suppose the argument over a longer term appointment in the summer would be whether there are better options available than Tuchel and Allegri by then? I have doubts over both for varying reasons but there's no doubt that if we want a more experienced coach with a solid CV to come in, they both pass that test pretty well. Nagelsman I guess is the other realistic option if we're looking at the summer but whilst he has a lot more coaching experience than Lampard, there are still question marks over his ability to come in and manage a much bigger club than he has in the past with pressure and expectations to challenge and win trophies.

This squad is very different to the one that Sarri left, with a front three of Willian, Pedro and Giroud all well into their 30's. There will be far more managers casting an eye at the talent and depth we have in our squad and fancying a crack with it.

Completely agree with everything you've said. It's very raw at the moment and I think given time people will look back at Lampard's time here in a more positive way with regards to last seasons achievement of getting top 4 and the longer term rebuilding job he's done of the squad through the academy and transfer market. I'd love nothing more to see my club be successful under one of its biggest legends and personally one of my all time favourites. But realistically the head has to overule the heart and this season so far has been unacceptable. I felt there was some progress earlier in the season with regards to significant improvements to our set pieces at both ends of the pitch and our defensive shape that would help set us up for a successful season. But our attacking play has got progressively worse which has really come to a head since the Leeds game. At the time when we went behind early against Leeds I had nothing but confidence we'd still win the game but just a month later I wonder where the goals will come from and like you said, I'm not very confident about the Fulham game. Unfortunately as our attacking play has spluttered along, old problems have arisen at the back too such as defensive mistakes and being caught naively on counter attacks. As a couple of people have mentioned, there have been a couple of times in recent weeks where we've had free weeks finally in between games but if anything we've been worse after which would suggest problems in the coaching department. I think ultimately the club trying to ride through this now becomes nothing more than a stay of execution and a change in the manager and coaching setup is needed for the long term outlook of the club. Whilst most have been completely reasonable with criticism levelled at Lampard's management and separated that from his legendary status as a player, a couple of people on this forum are nothing short of a disgrace with some of the rubbish they spew which is usually reserved by plastic fans on twitter. If the inevitable happens, hopefully it can be done in the most respectful of ways. The club will get a media shitstorm for it, but we've rode out far worse in the past.

Of course results are more important and that's what ultimately will cost Lampard his job. But you only have to look at the squad he inherited with a transfer ban, Hazard left, RLC and CHO crocked long term, Kante riddled with injuries, and compare that with the squad we have now. Lampard will leave us in a better position with regards to the strength of our squad than what he started with. Thiago Silva aside, there were no short term fixes like a Mourinho or Conte would demand, but instead he brought in or through a younger crop of players for the long term good of the club. He's not likely to be here to bear those fruits but I do think in 2-3 years people will have more appreciation over the job he's done rebuilding a pretty stale and ageing squad who had just lost its talisman.

Whilst I'd agree with the current style and worrying regression in our play, particularly in recent weeks and that will almost certainly end up being his undoing. However, I still think for the overall development of this group of players, Lampard has actually been an important appointment and hopefully in the long term his time here will be looked at in a better light because of the rebuild he's done within the squad. The academy players that have been integrated into the squad over the last 18 months will all play a role at the club over the coming years. Some more than others, but it has significantly strengthened the squad and driven down the average age of the team. From what has been reported, Lampard has also played a significant role in attracting players here this summer. Forget some of their struggles currently, our summer recruitments I'm sure will prove to be great buys and it appears that Lampard had a big impact being able to improve the level of player that was in our reach this summer.

Not just here, but compared to the first season of Pep at City and Klopp's first full season at Liverpool, he did better than both whilst here. The problem is he was never afforded the time to get past obvious teething problems that the two above were given. That's not on the board either, I think Sarri would have been retained if it wasn't for the massive backlash the fans gave against him. It's my biggest concern with the club that a manager won't be afforded the time needed to imprint their style and blueprint on the team. I think that a more pragmatic manager can put things in place much quicker usually than a progressive manager. But the squad we've been building in the last 3 seasons amongst signings and academy players points to needing a progressive, attacking style to maximise the potential. We're no longer suited to a pragmatic, defensive approach.

As a side note too, does anyone know what the situation is regarding potentially bringing in a foreign manager post Brexit?

If the club move on from Lampard then what is the realistic choice? I hate the idea of an interim manager again. This isn't the same group of players and personalities we have a few years back who seemed capable of almost managing themselves in times of turmoil. We have a young team who need to be moulded and developed and I find it counter productive bringing in a coach to work with them for half a season before someone else comes in. And in the past our success with interim managers has usually involved coaches coming in and making us harder to beat than getting us playing better football. So if we make a play now I guess the two on the market that appear most attractive are Allegri and Tuchel. I'm honestly not sure about Allegri. The commitment we've made since bringing in Sarri is to look at playing a more attack minded way and the players we've brought since then tell as much. I don't think we've got the squad anymore to go back to a more pragmatic approach. Tuchel seems combustible to me, and we're the last club you'll get anywhere with by arguing with the board. However there is a portfolio of good football there (particularly at Mainz and Dortmund, not as impressed at his PSG tenure). Ironically looking back in hindsight there has to be wonderment over what might have happened if Sarri continued. I know Hazard was leaving but the Europa League final was probably the best example of his football. His position was made untenable by the fan backlash during the season but if we're going to develop a progressive style it isn't going to happen overnight and there is going to have to be some patience somewhere from fans and board alike (both of which over time have proven to be amongst the most impatient in world football).

We drew with Villa in between Arsenal and City.