olivertwist

We are crying out for a regista and a tecnical striker but we had rather buy a player we don't need at all. beggars belief

Apparently work ethic alone is sufficient to be a first team player at Chelsea and justify a starting position. I know plenty of extremely fit and passionate Chelsea fans who had be willing to work their socks off for their beloved team even more so than blondie. should we sign them to a 175k a week contract and draft them into the first team too?. The Torres argument transition has been nothing short of embarrassment. went from, he hasn't had a proper pre-season and rest with us- The system and tactics doesn't suit him-Drogba is hindering him-The team doesn't create for him- He isn't loved and pampered like a poppy to protect his fragile ego and non existent self confidence-Malouda conspiracy- The magnificent achievement of winning a corner in munich- he works hard (a professional footballer earning 175k a week is praised for working hard rather than delivering and producing the goods) give me a lazy Zlatan everyday of the week. I expect the next line of argument to be "Atleast he wears a decent hairstyle and doesn't arrive late to training. At this rate, some people will probably start equating each pass he completes as goals.

Dear oh dear what have I done and there I was thinking the purpose of a forum is to have intelligent and objective debates. Alright then, Hazard is absolutely perfect and was magnificent throughout last season. let's see if that stops the barrage of abuse from the immature teenagers on this forum.

What does Technical ability or talent have to do with sloppy passing and poor decision making. They are mutually exclusive and there are plenty of highly talented players also guilty of the criticism I levied against him . . .see Neymar, Arda Turan, Di maria, pastore and so on. There's a reason he was poor/average for majority of last season and his inclusion in the player of the year shortlist was met with criticism and mockery by neutral/unbiased fans and pundit. only if some people would remove their blue tinted glasses for a minute and be objective for once.

Surely I can't be the only one that finds his tendency to lose possession quite frequently through combination of poor decision making (like trying silly flicks, over-dribbling. . .) and inconsistent passing very frustrating. He has to significantly improves those aspect of his game plus productivity to become a world class player. for those that believe he's close to that level couldn't be more wrong, he still has a long long way to go and like mou said, there's a difference between a top talent and a top player.

Is this the David Luiz or Franco Baresi thread? because I'm confused right now.

You have basically just described the polar opposite of Torres.

If there's one player I want to make it at chelsea the most, it's this kid. Even ahead of chalobah, ake,boga and RLC, simply because he's a regista and players with such qualities are extremely rare to find and he has the talent and potential to reach the top level in that position. just to put into perspective how rare top quality registas are, of all the thousands of wonderkids in football, only Alcantara (arguable), Veratti,Oliver torres and our own Josh qualifies as one now compare that to other positions where you had find literally 100's of highly talented payers. Even at the more established level, you can count them on one hand- Xavi,Pirlo, Alonso,Modric,Bastian,Banega and david pizarro? of those, 4 are old and past their prime.

If any club is foolish enough to grossly overpay for a defender to the tune of £40m plus then it would be equally foolish to reject such an offer. that's the price for elite defenders in their prime which Luiz ISN'T imho and people can bang on about potential all they want. You pay such for Silva, prime Nesta, prime vidic, prime canavaro etc. not Luiz.

This will be one of the most interesting epl season for sure. can't wait

This kid plays with maturity and composure far above his years. He's one of my favourite chelsea youth players. personally I think the loan system is overrated and isn't and should never be the only strategy in place for youth development and integration as there are many variables that could impact a player's development on loan such as limited playing time and the loan club manager's motivation to do what's best for his team rather than the player as they have no incentive to develop a player for another team to benefit from which leads to mismanagement of some of these players. many clubs have proven that there are other method or strategy equally as effective in developing and integrating youth players into the first team. AS Roma- Totti, De rossi, Barcelona- Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol et al Madrid- Raul, Guti, Hiero Bayern- Bastian Liverpool- Gerrard, Carragher, Owen. None of those top players went out on loan and I'm sure there are plenty more example. This mentality that youngsters can only be developed through the loan system is just not true. it depends on how they are handled and the amount of trust shown in them. that's the bottomline. trust and commitment.

Why was he underwhelming at internacional as well when he was played in his best position (no 10). bir cfc summarized my entire point in that post. the reason we bought him was because of his performances for the national team. I followed the Brazil serie a regularly and he's was very average in the 11/12 season before we bought him. he's Brazil's version of David Healy, Arshavin, Robbie Keane and Milan Baros.. . . fantastic for country but average at club level and I will hold onto that statement until (if ever) he proves me wrong.

@ theskipper "Let me tell you why Oscar isn't overrated at all. Gotze, Hazard and Reus have all started their careers in Europe, so it's natural you'd think they've shown (according to you) their talent more because you've been exposed by such more.. . Again, I wouldn't really expect anyone to know the aforementioned without doing a bit of research because the Brazilian league is not covered here at all. " Firstly I used the reference he hasn't shown anything at club level in regards to his performances both at internacional and Chelsea and secondly, ease up on the assumption that I never knew Oscar and how he performed before joining Chelsea because you know absolutely nothing about me. if we are going to have a civilized debate. it 's best easing up on the assumption and conjecture games. "Your claim that Oscar hasn't ever done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as those aforementioned is just ignorant to me, sorry. You act like playing number 10 for Brazil is not a big thing, fine, let's put that aside. What you can't put aside regarding his international appearances is that he, alongside with Neymar, is one of Brazil's best performers on a regular basis. Neymar and Oscar carry Brazil's attack. Yeah, Ronaldinho, Kaka etc. are on the wane and aren't as good as they were before but to say he was practically handed the role as Brazil's playmaker is plain ignorant. He cemented the role at a time when Ganso was considered a great talent, Kaka and Ronaldinho were still doing okay (especially the latter in Brazil), Robinho was still a very valid option, all very decent players. Even the likes of Lucas Moura and Coutinho if you're looking at people his age could not secure that spot in the team despite them all being great talents. He's Brazil's playmaker because he produces excellent performances for them, time and time again, and outshone all of the players mentioned before at the mere age of 20/21. If that doesn't make you acknowledge that he's a great talent then pity for you. You can't just discredit this argument because it's very valid." You just made my point. Let's see, so firstly you agreed when Oscar busted unto the scene Ronaldinho and Kaka were on a downward spiral by the time and Ganso who was hotly tipped to succeed those two and already a starter for the salecao at the time, lost form terribly and never recovered costing him his place and position in the team. His arrival also coincided with a time Brazil launched a rebuilding campaign ahead of the world cup in 2014 and with the scarcity of top class playmakers, Oscar haven't performed well at the junior level for the national team was the beneficiary of that rebuilding phase. Out of the other players you mentione, only countinho qualifies as a no 10 but he was mismanaged by inter and lost motivation and his reputation to a major hit as a result which didn't help his case at the time. "However, if you couldn't see why he's on his way to become a top talent during his time here then you should go re-watch a couple of games, starting with his first start against Juventus where he played as a number 10, grabbed two goals against a world class keeper in Buffon (especially his 2nd goal which was our goal of the season), whilst effectively keeping one of the best midfielders in the game, Andrea Pirlo, marked out of the game. You have to be an extraordinary talent to be able to do that, especially if you are merely 21 years of age. If that game didn't make you realise what a great talent Oscar and why he's rated as one of the best talents in the world then nothing will. Again, incase you didn't see that game, here is the video (again, please do remember that this was his first ever start for Chelsea):" So he had ONE decent game against Juve and this proves what exactly? that it's sufficient proof of his "high ceiling potential and world class talent"? Fabregas, Rooney,Messi, Ronaldo, Owen to name a few were tearing teams to shred and performing at a far higher level on a CONSISTENT basis at similar age and some of those names were already in the reckoning for the ballon dor at Oscar's age. so forgive me if I'm not impressed by this massive achievement of "our £20m rated, high ceiling prospect"oscar you just highlighted. "Oscar has such a high ceiling - he's still a bit raw (he's come on a lot since last season mind) but technically very astute, has very good vision, can dribble the ball effectively, his movement and intelligence on and off the ball is fantastic, technique is top notch" This can't be the same Oscar I saw last season constantly waste possession with very sloppy first touch and wayward passing.

I believe I already made my reasons very clear in previous post. He's constantly lauded as one of the best prospects in world football and mentioned in the same breath as the likes Gotze, Hazard, Reus et al who have shown far more talent and tangibles at club level thus far. Every time I question the claim that he has high ceiling and destined to be one of the best players in the near future, the only argument that get's thrown at me is that he's Brazilian no 10.

I'm taking the "he's overrated part" seriously because I agree with that sentiment. No one would deny he performs well for the national team but until (if ever) he starts producing the goods at club level for chelsea, then that view wouldn't change. he hasn't done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as Mata and Hazard for instance. never mind the baseless claims that he WILL become one of the best players in the future.

TBF There's scarcity of genuine world class players in the position he plays for the national team atm I doubt he would have started for the Brazilian team of the past, who's he going to bench in that no 10 role? Ronaldinho? kaka?, Rivaldo?, Romario?Zico?. If he was starting in midfield for National team's with surplus of top quality midfielders like Spain and Germany then that argument would hold better weight. Also and perhaps more importantly, he's extremely unproven at club level so far in his career and hasn't shown anything at that level to justify the hype he constantly receives. so bob isn't completely off the mark with that statement. minus the mata part which i disagree with.