Stingray

Still, i am allowed my own posts on the subject, right?

Bass and guitar as said! I have posted some songs once in the mugshot thread i think ...

Nobody said that. Not even me in the Hazard thread. You seem to read posts the wrong way...

I quite disagree - that would be a sick mission in itself. I would prefer it give a 17 year old hope. The world is what it is and it is actually less violent and cruel than it has ever been (see reference below). But we only see the now in a world where everything is filmed, spread viral, announced on the news again and again. The age of hystery and panic. For those interested - MIT's Steven Pinker on the subject The website: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html The book in pdf: http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/Intellectual_Life/LTW-Pinker.pdf The TED talk

Now that sucked less than the rest of the forum!! Nicely done, mate!

This is a futile debate. Ethics are made by mankind and used by mankind. You cannot say one position is right and another is wrong. It depends on the context and if your ethical position. If you are a utilitarian it is the amount of sorrow that determines whoch os worse. If you are a deontologist - the rule 'do no harm' can apply to aimals as well - making it humancentric to exclude animals. I can go on for hours on this .... But i ope you get the point. As much as someone can be shocked by an animal abuse video, i can certainly relate to @voltage. His context and the ethical,reference frame is quite different. I see no reason to lecture any of the boys or give them shit. I think Voltage is allowed his opinion on this.

Exactly !

Ow thats Mike Origi's kid! He came from the Genk Academy, right? No I don't follow him ... Is he that good?Ps: thanks for the article. I will keep an eye on the kid if he plays.

CAREFREE!!!! :woo: :woo: :woo: :woo:

Again .... not history in that sense..... Never mind mate.

Who said you had to? Just google 'Confirmation Bias'.

Lol. Ow Comon, you make a strawman out of me, mate. If player history is just that (and i mean the players recent history - see the original post) - some players - like Rooney - would suddenly drop in 'ability'. That is foolish. Previous recent performances do count. What are you gonna do? Rate the players quality by match?

The very essence of a cognitive bias is that it is unconscious, unaware off and involunatary. The way you see it, has every bit of your bias in it, as I have mine. That is why we talk, debate and confront.

But you prove my point! It is not about just one year to rate a guy. Especially if one is on the high and the other starting to settle in. Quality is not the same concept than a one year performance. Last season , Eden got also more assists and I grant Bale did awesome scoring. Fab. But the year before: 9, the year before: 7, the year before: 3 and the year before: 0 . Eden : Last year 9 (first season!), The year before: 20(15 assists), the year before: 7(11 assists), The year before 5, Then 4 While being 2 years younger in this. So .... It's a close call. Not a clear cut 'Bale is awesome thing'.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did ..... regardless of official communication :-)

But, but, no! ..... this is my point exactly. Bale objectively didn't score that much more. Yes This year. But before .... much less. Eden more ... now less (transition). It makes no sense at all to limit the concept of quality for a player to a 1 season term . Wuuuut?

Yes. But that is exactly the reason this debate on who is actually .... better/has a higher ceiling/.... needs the perspective of history as well. Bale did awesome, Eden very well. eden had his maiden year. But the variable of played best next year to determine who's the best/promising/..... is a very bad one. Hazard did not as well as he did this year - but for Bale everything worked and Eden had his first year starting in a transition situation, a lot of young guys, a thin squad, sacking of the manager, ball boy shit, FSW ... So .... the only way to intelligibly is keep history in mind. Hazard might have played in a weaker league. Ligue 1 is not ALL the weak thing people some make of it -. And he ripped that place apart. Multiple years. It gives the Bale/Hazard thing a new perspective .... that's all :-)

Ow my! No, you got me wrong. My post was about the debate about who was best. My intro dealing with the 'target audience' did not mention you at all actually. Your last remark just gave me the lolz So I added a remark to end. Banter mate, you got the red on your profile pic. So I wanted to tease you a bit (especially after you saying 'Ronaldo'. The post in itself wasn't really about you.

Hey Guys ... on the Bale goes to Madrid thread the comparison with Eden came up. So I made a post I would like to share here as well. I hope you don't mind. It is indeed easy to be biased. But I feel a lot of the bias favours Bale. Most on here are English or watch a LOT of EPL - no offense guys. Jus ....Eden Hazard had a past you know. And a better one than Bale by all means. I know The french league is considered weaker .... but the numbers on Hazard will speak for themselves. Now, to avoid a bias, let's see some data! We will have to keep in mind Eden is two years younger and would actually have two more years time to surpass the Bale stats (which he actually does now already. Because I a a lazy mofo i will just Wiki this shit :-) I have done it before in the Hazard thread with official stats ... pfft not again. Lets see Bale. They both have a two year age difference so I will start their 'career' stats with a two year lag to compensate. Gareth Bale: From 2005 to now a total of 60 goals. Last year 8 assists (Whoscored.com). Everyone knows his Curriculum of performances. Now Eden A total of 63 goals and 68 assists in TWO YEARS LESS. Granted a lot in the french league, but the difference is not that, that this number is meaningless. That claim would be hybris galore. Add to this Eden's Curriculum: Best player on European Championship -17 (with Bojan)Debut for the NT at 17 1 time French Champion in 2011Coupe de France in 2011Best young player of the french league 2x 2009, 2010Best player of the French league 2x 2011, 2012Ligue 1: in squad of the season 3x 2010, 2011, 2012Ligue 1 player of the month 4x march 2010, march 2011, march 2012, april 2012Étoile d'or France Football 1x 2011Trofeo Bravo 1x 2011PFA Team of the Year 1x 2013Europa League 1x 2013Player of the month here at chelsea ... Forgot whenAlmost 30 NT caps (Bale 41 but + 2 years)This all gives me the impression people rate Bale higher because he simply was more salient - more visible for the EPL audience. Somehow I find nothing in the numbers, titles, awards from pundits of players that justifies placing Bale on a much higher platform. Nothing seems to justify the humonguous, astronomical numbers paid for him - especially if you consider Ronaldo's performances when he got transferred. Bale has a highly aggressive style that payed off this year. even more than Eden he will have to 'confirm' this year at Real. am just glad we have Eden and the numbers tell me I am right - as well as my heart.

It is indeed easy to be biased. But I feel a lot of the bias favours Bale. Most on here are English or watch a LOT of EPL - no offense guys. Jus ....Eden Hazard had a past you know. And a better one than Bale by all means. I know The french league is considered weaker .... but the numbers on Hazard will speak for themselves. Now, to avoid a bias, let's see some data! We will have to keep in mind Eden is two years younger and would actually have two more years time to surpass the Bale stats (which he actually does now already. Because I a a lazy mofo i will just Wiki this shit :-) I have done it before in the Hazard thread with official stats ... pfft not again. Lets see Bale. They both have a two year age difference so I will start their 'career' stats with a two year lag to compensate. Gareth Bale: From 2005 to now a total of 60 goals. Last year 8 assists (Whoscored.com). Everyone knows his Curriculum of performances. Now Eden A total of 63 goals and 68 assists in TWO YEARS LESS. Granted a lot in the french league, but the difference is not that, that this number is meaningless. That claim would be hybris galore. Add to this Eden's Curriculum: Best player on European Championship -17 (with Bojan)Debut for the NT at 17 1 time French Champion in 2011Coupe de France in 2011Best young player of the french league 2x 2009, 2010Best player of the French league 2x 2011, 2012Ligue 1: in squad of the season 3x 2010, 2011, 2012Ligue 1 player of the month 4x march 2010, march 2011, march 2012, april 2012Étoile d'or France Football 1x 2011Trofeo Bravo 1x 2011PFA Team of the Year 1x 2013Europa League 1x 2013Player of the month here at chelsea ... Forgot whenAlmost 30 NT caps (Bale 41 but + 2 years)This all gives me the impression people rate Bale higher because he simply was more salient - more visible for the EPL audience. Somehow I find nothing in the numbers, titles, awards from pundits of players that justifies placing Bale on a much higher platform. Nothing seems to justify the humonguous, astronomical numbers paid for him - especially if you consider Ronaldo's performances when he got transferred. Bale has a highly aggressive style that payed off this year. even more than Eden he will have to 'confirm' this year at Real. am just glad we have Eden and the numbers tell me I am right - as well as my heart. So @JayC I agree to disagree with you and call out your own bias. In all friendliness of course, mate (you red fucker). I think you might underestimate Hazard (others as well on here , mind you).

I think you mean: Assholes ....

Oh, you are just jealous of us Indians!! You just lost your title to an Indian as well.