pachman40

No worries, I agree referee talk won't help anything here (although it has gone both ways for Benfica this season, not just one-sided). I'm glad Sporting is back where they should be, and having Champions League revenue next season will make it a lot easier to stay up there. For this season, I sincerely hope Sporting stay above Porto, but obviously hope Benfica continues the path to the title. Good luck!

I can't believe people saying the league has been boring this year. Just because Benfica is pulling away now doesn't mean it wasn't fantastic up until recently. First week of January, Sporting, Benfica, and Porto were all tied at the top of the table. First season in a while that Sporting is battling for the title and its great to see because our league needs Sporting to be competitive. Porto's wheels are falling off right now and how is that not entertaining? That's like us Chelsea fans watching Arsenal's predictable collapse after they start believing this could be the year, except Porto never collapses which makes it all the more satisfying.Yes Benfica have opened a gap but the season is far from over. Benfica is still in Europa League and the league cup while Sporting have a chance to rest most weeks and more properly prepare for their next opponents. If Sporting closes the gap by a measly two or three points over the next few games (entirely possible) then the final game of the season between Porto and Benfica at Porto's stadium will be super squeeky bum time for us Benfiquistas. We don't know what will happen to Porto between now and then, but no matter what the situation, Porto would love nothing more than to spoil the party for Benfica. Pinto Da Costa will NOT let Benfica celebrate clinching the title at the Dragao even if it means sitting his ass on the bench right next to whoever the manager is or personally choosing the prostitutes he provides the refs.... And that, my friends, should be more than enough reason to use any adjective except boring when describing the league this year.

I hate Porto with a passion and I'm enjoying every second of their downward spiral. That being said, Fonseca was always over his head and I feel bad for the guy as I'm always protective of portuguese players and managers when discussing outside of the portuguese bubble. He's looking bad right now and I hope he moves on from Porto with dignity and self-confidence as he has already proven to be a solid manager for a mid-table portuguese team with lower expectations. That's where he belongs, and that's not the worst thing in the world (better than me that's for sure).

Lol, you sound just like every Sporting fan.

Yes, Chicago Blackhawks, USA are undoubtedly the best at hockey. Couldn't even let us Canucks have that one, eh? Sorry Alex, back on topic. Chelsea still well in this, but two points lost, should've destroyed these bus-parkers, could make the difference at the end of the year, yada yada yada ... Is there a hockey sub-forum in here?

That's like Real Madrid winning the Champions League with 10 Englishmen in the starting 11 and then saying Spain is better than England :tophat:

Frustrating game no doubt, but let's step away from the ledge boys and girls. 3 points from the top with everything to play for. I'm convinced our boys will raise their game Monday and I can see us taking points. The congrats to City on the title from some people here are quite over the top.

Hey hey hey, smart Canucks a plenty here ... and the Yanks have nothing on our hockey yet (although admittedly they are getting closer).

Well, I didn't want to believe it, but I guess I have to accept it as fact now. Really think we should've soaked United for some more cash but what's done is done. Good luck Mata, but not too much. I think he'll do well there.

I'm so sad right now. People here yapping about how Mata is a squad player, he's our 4th or 5th best AM, we should be happy to get this much for a player who doesn't start, great business. I couldn't disagree more. I won't be able to convince these guys differently, just like they won't be able to convince me that this is a terrible decision. I'm not against selling Mata, but under the circumstances that United are in they are absolutely not paying enough of a premium. He is 25 years old for god's sake and people are saying his value will only go down. I will ask everyone who thinks this is a great sale, if someone told you that we'd be selling Juan Mata for 37M back in April or May to anyone in this world let alone Manchester United, would you back the sale? When we were in for Rooney this summer and United fans suggested a straight swap Rooney for Mata, us Chelsea fans laughed our asses off at the idea that Rooney at 28 yrs old, with recent fitness issues, and possibly unhappy to be reunited with Moyes would be considered in the same league as our Juan. Just a few months ago Mata for 37M was unthinkable. Now, because Mourinho and his system don't view Mata in the same light Mata's value drops to the point people here think we should be grateful for such a substantial offer? Mata is the same player today as he was a few months ago. He doesn't fit in Mourinho's team, but that doesn't mean he's worth a thank you and a handshake and an off you go to Man freakin united. 37M is not worth the signal this sends to the fans and is not worth reputation we are establishing. The happy campers can be happy all they want, they can cheer and be thankful that we made a profit. They can join in with 99% of Man United fans who can't believe how good of a deal they were able to negotiate. I think their happiness says all there needs to be said about this transfer. Go Chelsea! I disagree with this deal, but I'm still waving that blue flag and backing the team!

This is exactly what I've been thinking for the last few days. We're just paying them back for the Rooney stuff from the summer. Mata to United shouldn't happen for less than 60 million for the simple fact that they are United. No excuses.

Here we go with the neanderthal comparisons again, not gonna bother. As for the bolded part, I agree that he's a better defender than when he arrived, Regarding changing his style for the worse, I think that's accurate and doesn't in the least misrepresent my opinion. You obviously disagree, no problem.

In the end, Luiz has his current reputation, whether earned or not, that he's prone to regular brainfarts. It's the default, its the first reaction every time he messes up. This is reinforced by media, tv analysts, and fans. I feel like I'm going in circles, just like I'm sure you're feeling right now TOPTB. Luiz could string a long run of games where he plays well (like late last season) but the instant his brain lets out some gas then that's the rule as opposed to the exception. Personally I think his gaffes are absolutely no more frequent than Gary Cahill's but the manner in which they screw up is quite different given that they play different styles of game. Gary generally has horrible positioning and backs off so much that he's been in Cech's lap for so many goals and scoring chances against. But he makes a hell of a last gasp challenge to prevent scoring chances. People jizz over those challenges but nobody mentions that half the time he needs to make those challenges because he's out of position or he's backed off too much. Whatever, that's the opinion of some people and who am I to change that. Regarding JT, he's a legend, he's earned the benefit of the doubt and even though I could get into it a bit, I don't want to knock him because I genuinely love him and want him in our side. Bringing up Luiz's commitment level and effort is a non-starter for me. If anything he tries too hard and that's what gets him in trouble, Every player in the world has off days and no doubt there could've been a game here or there where the commitment level was not up your acceptable level. That hardly represents a trend and that hardly represents an earned reputation. Maybe if he kept his tongue in his mouth and cut his hair to a respectable length, then a new fully committed and hard working leader might rise like a phoenix from the scraps of hair laying on the floor. Luiz, for me, represents one half of the best CB pairing we should be playing, yes even now. I'm sure you'll disagree but that's my opinion. Mourinho is siding with you now, and I am more than happy for Gary/JT to continue with the clean sheets and bring success to Chelsea. Doesn't mean I wouldn't do something else, and that's why he's the best manager in the world, and I'm some shmuck typing at a computer. Nice debate though :tophat:

I think for the most part as weird as it sounds we're pretty much on the same page. Luiz is better than this. The rest can be debated solidly both ways. You cling to and emphasize my line that I'm resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes. Well I'm resigned to the fact and not surprised that JT makes mistakes. Gary makes mistakes. Mourinho makes mistakes, I make mistakes. I'm also resigned to the fact that when JT and Gary make mistakes they are given the benefit of the doubt more than Luiz. Was Luiz's mistake in Cardiff the first time a defender ever misjudged a pass back to a goalie? Will he never live it down because it resulted in a goal - in a 4-1 Chelsea win? Didn't John Terry gift wrap a ball to Hull last game in the first half at 0-0 but because we kept a clean sheet it's forgotten and our defensive system is a solid platform for our attacking players. If Luiz made that identical mistake you better believe it would be a 30 page topic in this forum but it got barely a nibble. The Gary/JT pairing was horrendous this season until this recent 6 game run you refer to. Is that all forgotten, and now they are our undisputed first pair? I'm very happy with Chelsea's recent defensive form but I'm not ready to anoint Gary/JT as our best pair. You may not be on the anti-Luiz bandwagon, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're making decent points and giving a balanced view,. But I also think you've bought into the view that David's head is his problem where I think those problems are overexaggerated. In the end, he's too square of a peg right now for the round hole in Mourinho's current system, but I can see some changes coming.

Some fair points, everyone has their opinion and I won't dismiss yours. I have a hard time following your logic that Chelsea fan's criticize and nit-pick Luiz's mistakes simply out of fear of losing him and his wonderful potential. I tend to think they simply prefer a different style in their CB's, and that's why they criticize. I also disagree with you that his natural playing style would be stifled in teams like Bayern and Barcelona or wherever he ended up. When a team buys a player for the amount they will have to stump up to drag Luiz out of Chelsea, knowing all of his well documented characteristics, I would feel really confident that they would be willing to let him be who he is and simply smooth the edges a bit. They wouldn't be looking at dropping a load of cash into a project that's already reaching their prime playing years. I agree that Mourinho's hiring and the system he was likely to implement was always going to challenge Luiz and the signs were there from the beginning. I was looking forward to seeing Mourinho and Luiz adapt to eachother, feeding off eachother's strengths, and it hasn't happened quite that way yet. Mind you, I haven't given up on that either. I believe Mourinho has changed mentalities over the years and there is a place for Luiz in his team. BUT I think Mourinho is a little gunshy right now and he's looking for solid results first and foremost while eventually transitioning into a more fluid style that would among other things suit Luiz better, but that's another discussion altogether.

Fantastic signing, will fit perfectly. Benfica fans are livid. I'm of the opinion there will be a side deal or separate announcement where Benfica gets a player on loan or buys Romeu for a low price to compensate for the lower than expected fee here. They've done that before so I think there will be another shoe to fall.... BUT if there isn't another shoe and its a straight cash deal, it's a real bargain and Chelsea got one on Benfica.

"Right" is in quotations because for some people on this forum there is only one correct decision when defending, one proper philosophy. Defend simply without complicating things and get the ball up to the midfield as soon as possible so they can start an attack. Yes that overly simplifies things, but the way people want David to play is overly simple as well. I never implied that all British CB's are ball-hoofing neanderthals and you gave a couple of good examples of players who don't fit that traditional British style CB. However, the stereotypical style that British teams play include CB's who primarily sit back and play simple defence, move the ball forward to the mids/attackers and let them take care of the offence. This is not and never was the style that David Luiz plays. Fans, tv analysts, and the team are trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole. When Luiz makes mistakes like that, nobody is happy including David's fans. We are all resigned to the fact, and are not surprised that he makes mistakes, and we temper that with his creativity and what he adds to the build-up and offense in our team. But there is a faction that is ready to pounce and throw him under the bus at the earliest opportunity while ignoring the positive plays he's made. There is a certain fervour that analysts have when drawing attention to David's mistakes while downplaying or ignoring others who make similar or worse decisions. When somebody makes a mistake that directly results in a goal, it is no different in reality to when somebody makes a mistake that avoids worse consequences. Gary/JT have played great these last few games, but they've also made mistakes which fortunately weren't punished with a goal. Does that mean they defended better? Statistically its black and white, but its not always the case. There's no denying that somebody is consciously changing David's style. Somebody is telling him to play less risky, don't make those constant runs upfield, stay in line. When he arrived, people thought the guy was nuts, he was so unorthodox, and that was what made him the player Chelsea coveted and spent big money to buy. He may still be that player inside and may end up playing like that under different management or in a different team, but for now he's doing what's asked of him including playing out of position. The way he plays now, I think we can all agree he is not playing to his potential. No denying the clean sheets and stability Gary/JT are recently providing and I give them credit. But I think we all remember the disaster they were before this recent run. Does anyone remember the runs of clean sheets David has been involved in? Do I need to dig those up? I absolutely want Chelsea to succeed, even at the expense of Luiz, and if that means we are fed a diet of boring defence balanced by individual brilliance up front resulting in 1-0 wins from now until the end of the season then that's fine with me. I've resigned myself to that style given that Mourinho's tactics are reflecting that right now. I'm a Chelsea fan ahead of a David Luiz fan. I think somebody else here is oversimplifying and insulting me as a fan implying that I'm blinded by cool hair and tongues sticking out. I won't patronize you so there's no need to patronize me. I agree that his form this season as a CB is below what's expected of him, and I choose to take a different view of his play than you do. David Luiz is not playing well as a CB because David Luiz is not playing his natural style. He's been gradually adapting to a less and less risky and more defensive based game and you can see it in his eyes, he's not the same player as he was when he arrived. I'm not trying to place him up on a pedestal by knocking down Gary and JT. Its my opinion. I respect that you're giving him credit for his play in midfield and in honesty that probably suits him better under Mourinho's philosophy. My whole point of the previous post was to say that we are wasting him and when he leaves and flourishes somewhere else there will be some negative nellies here that will blame the board, the manager, the fans, the garbageman, the mailroom staff and say 'he should've been a Chelsea legend", but they are the same people currently riding on the anti-Luiz bandwagon.

Thanks guys... my post count is really low relative to the amount of time I spend lurking here. Every once in a while I'll get in the mood and throw a few posts out there, but for the most part I'm more of a behind the scenes kind of guy. I like reading, but I'll try to be less lazy and interact more.

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting. Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

CMVM is the portuguese stock exchange, but its a little hard to navigate for people searching for what you're looking for. Guaranteed ABola and Record are checking every 5 seconds and will post it immediately when its reported to the CMVM so might as well check those two portuguese soccer sites instead.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I think saying he's the best you saw playing for us is a little over the top, I don't want to raise the expectations here to unrealistic levels. Matic was fantastic for us, but I would take Rui Costa on the downhill side of his career any day over Matic. Aside from that, I think we can agree we just sold a hell of a player.

Absolutely agree 100%

Matic for the reported 25M euros + two players can potentially be a fantastic value, but I'll reserve judgement until we find out who the two players are, whether they're on loan or permanent moves, and whether there's a buy-back on either of them. Until those factors are known, nobody can determine in good faith if it was a good or bad deal. A couple of things to mention, and I'll try not to bore everyone with detail after detail about Benfica's side of this deal because that doesn't concern fans on a Chelsea forum, but I'd like to add some perspective to the discussion... Benfica's financial distress has been overstated here and in the British media. Yes, Benfica are a selling club, that is no secret, yes Benfica didn't qualify for the knockouts in the Champion's League, yes that means there is a shortfall to their revenue projections. Does that mean there is a crisis? No. Did the elimination mean that Benfica are more will to sell and would be less rigid in their negotiations? I think that's fair. But, Benfica have other players that have high transfer values and are desired in the current market so they didn't NEED to cash in on Matic right now. Bottom line is that the rumoured transfer value for Matic is a fair amount that is still fantastic business for Benfica, but I don't think they would've settled for that amount AND sold him in January if they weren't eliminated from the CL already. The other thing that people here may consider keeping tabs on, is that Benfica already bought Matic's replacement last summer. Fejsa has the potential to make Benfica fans forget about Matic the way Mtaic made us forget about Witsel. That also made the decision to sell Matic a little easier. There are a few other things I'd like to mention if I had more time, but in the end (depending on the circumstances of the two throw-in players) this looks like a win-win for both teams and what's wrong with that? Go Chelsea!!!!!!!!

Whether he's better than Witsel or not is subjective. They're both really good players playing similar but different positions.I was one of the Benfica fans who were terrified going into last season losing both Javi Garcia and Witsel without buying replacements and thinking "we're going to get overrun in the centre of the park". But I'll tell you, I have never heard any Benfica fan say we would've had a better game or we would've won that game if we had Witsel instead of Matic. Matic made Benfica fans forget Witsel almost instantly so that says enough I think.

I want to give a more in depth opinion on Matic and the whole situation because there's misinformation sprinkled through this thread, but unfortunately work gets in the way. I'll just throw this out there for now, Chelsea fans can forget about the Matic that used to play for Chelsea, you will be very very happy with the Matic that is returning to the blues.