JayC

You miss the whole point. I can't be bothered to talk to idiot Americans.

He has the time to talk about owl head, but he can't put Manchester United's fans at rest? This is the cunt you want to sign. Good luck.

Don't think any transition is needed after his season with West Brom. He's a proven goal scorer in the premier league now and goes into this season with probably the most confidence of all your strikers.

I really don't know. He hasn't been given a chance. At least not enough to be able to come to a conclusion either way. He's obviously no RvP or Aguero, but he scores goals. He proved it at a lesser team. I would play Lukaku anyways...so it doesn't matter. No, mate. I think he's having some sort of premature midlife crisis.

I honestly can't call it. If you look at it from Rooney's perspective, he's given the club nine years of good football. He's played all over the team without a single word to the press and such. He sacrificed his personal development in some cases, for the good of the team. It's hard to disregard all his hard work. Even people like me who were seething about his "lack of ambition" comment have to recognise that he's done far more good than bad for us. I don't mind him staying, I'll support him when he plays, but I still won't forget what he said and done. I just don't understand so many things about this. We need Rooney to actually say something. Perhaps after the game, an interview is when it happens. He hasn't done anything yet, that there is no coming back from.

Fair points. I still think he's a waste of money though. As for Demba Ba, has he really had a fair crack? I don't remember him starting too many games consecutively. He was brilliant for Newcastle yet suddenly forgets how to shoot for Chelsea? Something weird going on there. I don't think it's fair to say he's not good enough until he gets an actual run in the team. He's a good player. Torres is so weird though - I don't trust him. Anyway, striker is a very important position so I understand why you'd want a proven talent at your disposal.

Rooney is fit enough to play every game, but is clearly getting worse. Not better. This is why I think progressing Lukaku is a good option before you lose him. Young players want to play. Not to mention saving £40m or w/e.

Weird logic to be honest. He's messed with Moyes, and the overall stability of our club by rocking the boat in a transitional period anyway! If he had any respect for anyone, he'd simply go public with this and hand in a transfer request. This would be game set and match. Yet he remains quiet, whilst feeding the press? He wouldn't wait out of respect for Rio. He's an utter cunt - he's proving it right now. This goes far deeper than a simple first-team spot. He should know that if he plays well, he will start. So it's not that, I don't think. SAF's comments could well of been faked. He could be extremely evil. On the other hand I'm not sure he'd rock Moyes' first few months like this intentionally. Anyway lets assume it is the team place - do you really want a lack of competition at your club? He's crying about not getting into the team for us, but it was justified. He'll do the same for Chelsea. Mourinho doesn't take much rubbish (ask Casillas) so it could all end in tears. I know Mourinho will want goals from him or he'll be subbed, or even on the bench! Rooney followers know he scores in bunches so there will be dry spells....pretty much a certainty. End this now though. Give us £40M so we can recruit Baines and Fellaini for no cost, please. ;p This goes through - he's gonna know what he had, but it's all going to be too late then.

Respect, son! Respect.

There is no shame in admitting to a Manchester United player being good. Way I see it is, I'd rather tell the truth than look like an idiot that has no clue what he's even talking about. A bit like if I was to go watch some American Rugby or whatever. If I don't understand what I'm watching/doing I quit pretty sharpish, or learn it... The evidence of his quality is not hard to find. We've been able to keep hold for so long because people don't understand Carrick. It's easy to put down something you don't understand rather than learn to understand it. Easy option for most is why he has no recognition. First name on the team sheet, last few years of Fergies' reign. I'd probably bet he's the owner of most games played and time on the pitch (from our team obviously) Why not? Are you some sort of dinosaur? When did giving no credit to the opposition become life or death stuff? At least you did give him some credit there though - and I'll accept that. I only fight battles I feel i have a chance with. You can't be swayed, you just don't watch enough of him. Agree to disagree.

I think you should show my teams players some more respect to be honest. I didn't expect you to rate him. The majority of fans cannot grasp his importance. It's fine though.

Fair enough then, mate. I do exactly the same.

Nah, I stated very early on the forum I don't like Rooney, and haven't since he suggested we had no ambition. I was just of the opinion that it was all nonsense, but it's getting a bit out of hand now, that I can't ignore it. I can admit I was wrong too. Anyway, I don't bite easy. Bad bait.

Truth is, you wish you had Carrick. It's what your team misses, and it will cost you the league. Laugh it up, big boy. ;p

The only way he will get better is if you play him. Look what we made out of Ronaldo. That was because we put up with his frustrating, but half-effective play for a few years. He would not of been able to rid himself of his weaknesses without that time, and of course playing in the team he would be staying with. Loans only works for so long. Ronaldo gradually realised how to play his most effective game, because of game time. Sit Lukaka on the bench and be impatient with a huge talent if you prefer, but personally I'd let Rooney go eat kebabs or whatever he does these days... and play the big man. You already threw away Sturridge. Mistake number two incoming, if you sign the kebab monster. Did you read his most recent book ( I didn't ) but I did read an article stating - Rooney said he finds it very hard recovering after matches in time for the next one. Or something along those line. Anyway, he's showing signs of fatigue already at twenty-seven. It can't be good smoking like a chimney then heading to the boozer, follwed by a BigLukes. ;p He'll be good for Chelsea though I don't doubt that. Probably worth the money, but you definitely stunt a real talent in the process. I don't think you'll get the striker you expect though. After reading the site today, I've come across many posts suggesting he will hold the ball and keep it in tight spaces. You're in for a shock. Sometimes his first touch is like the ball hitting a table-leg. He can no lonnger beat a man, and isn't capable of individual brilliance except the occasional long shot. He does link play well though - pass and move. You aren't getting a Drogba/RvP though, he can't hold the ball. Why do you think he was left out against Madrid? Cause we couldn't afford for him to pass the ball to them, and get annihilated on the counter. Well you will all see. It looks like this deal might actually happen. There is only one thing that is possible. He is making the most stupid move in history for a pay rise. Don't put it past him - he's not Eienstein. For me though, you are welcome to him.

What rubbish. You clearly know nothing about Makelele's history, or you wouldn't come out with stuff like that. Go read up on the player, and see the plaudits he still gets for his part in all the trophies won at Real Madrid in his time there. He was most definitely world class. Zidane likened him to the teams engine - take that away and you have got a spluttering mess. Not even that. His exit was the catalyst for a barren run for Madrid. He simply didn't stand out - like Carrick. Perez being the toolkit he is as usual refused to give him a pay rise, because he passed backwards... Anyway I was a big fan of Makelele. I would watch Madrid week in week out, because of my favourite player of all time - Raul.(non United)

That's why I hate twitter. Now I look like an idiot. Not hard.. but I don't need any help. FFS. Clearly I got it wrong.

Real Madrid XI (vs Chelsea): Casillas, Arbeloa, Ramos, Pepe, Marcelo, Khedira, Modric, Isco, Özil, Cristiano, Benzema Chelsea XI: Cech, Cole-Terry-Cahill-Luiz, Mikel-Ramires, Mata-Oscar-Hazard, Torres.

Well I'm sorry but history in any sense has no bearing on what I said. But I'm done for today anyway. Need some food and stuff. Laters.

What is hard to understand about it? History has no bearing on the here and now. It's not rocket science. You can look back and say: "wow, what a player he was then." Sure. However it still doesn't go towards his ability now. Yeah? That's all I'm saying. Players can have their history but cannot be ranked on it now. It's like me saying Giggs is the best, just look at how he played ten years ago... makes no sense.

I don't even like Gareth Bale, mate. Go figure it out now. I agree. Well said.

No problem. Banter all you want, but biased I am not. I call it like I see it. I can get things wrong though like anybody else. Biased, no. Thank you. Finally somebody that agrees. I thought this was turning into a pointless debate with so much negativity. I guess it's nearly run its course though - I didn't ever think I would win this one on a Chelsea forum anyway. I've never argued he can't be better. I agree with you. I'm not sure about 'easily' better than Bale though. You have to give a player the respect he deserves when he's had such a great season. Until he starts to flop or whatever you have to give him it. There is nothing written in stone about Hazard becoming a footballing god. I can see you are all excited about him, as I would be, but the fact he gets hyped up or has some sort of super potential is simply heresay until it's proven. I don't agree that it needs history. History is just that. You can't live on past glories in football IMO. I don't see an easier way to say who is best currently than having two players go at it in the same league. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I think you'll find I haven't been biased at all. Previous seasons were not mentioned and I did say quite clearly, that I was stating the best player at the current time, meaning now. I wasn't interested in what Hazard has done in the Ligue 1. You touched on it yourself - the league is pretty poor to begin with, but it was never mentioned. If you want me to take that into account, it's fine. However It's a bit meaningless regarding who is currently better in the SAME league. That was a much better way of judging. Yes Hazard played well in Ligue 1 - yes he's won more awards. It all means nothing though as he fell short of Bale this season. Bale stepped up massively. We are still waiting on Hazard to do the same and justify all of this huge potential. The difference is now - Bale won two awards in a superior league. Past means so little. I'm not sure you get what I'm saying Stingray, or you wouldn't call me biased. Let me make it clear. Hazard is a wonderful player with big potential. A player I've seen my fair share of. I know he's going to be good, and has proven this already in one league. I didn't need it pointed out in stats. My argument was simple - Bale is better now. I'm not sure that can be argued, as I said earlier in the thread. Hazard is a player I had hope we would sign - obviously that tells you a lot too? I mean I'm not trying to bag him or anything like that, he's just not as good regardless of what is in his past. Let him prove he can be better.

Ronaldo a trained product? Well yes. Every player is. I've watched him for so many years and let me tell you - the lad has always looked brilliant and full of promise. He's the second best player in the world (some would say first) and he made it by getting trained with less (or none) god given ability than Hazard? No. Ronaldo is a born talent. Not a question in my mind. In fact I don't believe you wouldn't put him in there with Messi. But you put in Hazard? Come on. Go watch Ronaldo's debut for us, and tell me the same. Go watch him at Sporting and tell me he had no god given ability. In fact that is crazy. I don't have any more words for it. And I'm still not buying that La Liga is so much worse defensively than the PL. I just don't believe it. If this was the case all strikers in that league would score shit tonnes too. Only Messi and Ronaldo, why? It's a bad argument, in my opinion. Stop trying to make up excuses to favor Hazard... I won't buy them. Plain and simple. In fact looking into it. Goals scored in the PL season 2012/2013; 1111 Goals scored in La Liga season 2012/2013; 1091 Less goals were scored in La Liga last season, and going by your argument that means it is actually harder there. In my mind this means the leagues are very similar. Even pull up the tables and sorting goals conceded shows very similar results when compared to the PL. The truth is both leagues are very similar, and Hazard will not be at any disadvantage. Argument void.

I don't think injuries to either player is relevant. They both play enough games. You make some other good points though. Ronaldo may have increased his tally simply by playing worse teams - then again maybe everyone underrates the smaller Spanish teams? I think that is more likely the case. Although it's a good point, and I can't be certain. I do know one thing for sure - they definitely do try to defend him. I see my fair share of Madrid games. Also, he definitely could have been at his best in 2008. I don't know. He was phenomenal then as well. I just think he's cut out all the tricks and showboating and it's worked for him. Bale and him are quite similar now. If Bale can keep the consistency, who knows? Anyway, I think Bale and Hazard both have a lot to prove still. I don't think moving to Madrid is in Bales best interests either, but I don't think it will stop him progressing. Hazard needs to find a new gear next year (well when the season starts), and Bale needs to keep doing what he is doing consistently. Currently Hazard is trailing.