🇷🇸 Nemanja Matic

[robsblubot 3,595]

Mikel played just fine. In fact much better than just fine. He did not slow the game down and most of the time even played one or two touch passes. The defense made a few mistakes, we got unlucky, we didn't finish the chances we created, they got very lucky in attack, we got beat. It happens in football. The obsession of trying to pin imaginary mistakes on Mikel is unhealthy...

"Mikel played just fine." Agreed and still not good enough for Chelsea.

"In fact much better than just fine." completely disagree

Mikel offers nothing going forward, so he IS the defense. When we concede two goals, esp when away from home, perhaps he did not protect the defense as well as he should've.

I'm one who does not see Mikel mistakes, because he doesn't even try anything other than the absolutely basic short and boring passing game we've seen from him over the years. Don't think he's that great defending either because of the lack of pace to cover. Yup that's how much I rate him.

Once again, there is a reason we spent 21M on Matic and that he is the starter. There is also a reason Mikel doesn't play often.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I've never said that. My main criticism of him is that he gives the ball away too much through poor passing/dwelling on the ball, he dives into tackles and he only ever passes forwards or backwards. This game being a notable exception.

That's just beyond incredible. For several season, Mikel was the player who played the most passes in the league at the highest accuracy for non-defenders! And arguably his best attribute is his ball retention: meaning his ability to keep the ball under immense pressure. Which Mikel are you talking about?!

Mikel has his obvious limitations: He is slow and lacks dynamism which makes him unfit to be our starting DM for the kind of pressing we usually do. But as far squad players go, it's very hard to find a better and more experienced player to come off the bench.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

"Mikel played just fine." Agreed and still not good enough for Chelsea.

"In fact much better than just fine." completely disagree

Mikel offers nothing going forward, so he IS the defense. When we concede two goals, esp when away from home, perhaps he did not protect the defense as well as he should've.

I'm one who does not see Mikel mistakes, because he doesn't even try anything other than the absolutely basic short and boring passing game we've seen from him over the years. Don't think he's that great defending either because of the lack of pace to cover. Yup that's how much I rate him.

Once again, there is a reason we spent 21M on Matic and that he is the starter. There is also a reason Mikel doesn't play often.

Your opinion and I completely disagree, but like I said above, there is no point to over analyze and discuss because he is just a squad player and Jose knows that Mikel gives us "great stability in that position" to quote his exact words.

[Viper22 2,418]

That's just beyond incredible. For several season, Mikel was the player who played the most passes in the league at the highest accuracy for non-defenders! And arguably his best attribute is his ball retention: meaning his ability to keep the ball under immense pressure. Which Mikel are you talking about?!

Mikel has his obvious limitations: He is slow and lacks dynamism which makes him unfit to be our starting DM for the kind of pressing we usually do. But as far squad players go, it's very hard to find a better and more experienced player to come off the bench.

I find that hard to believe. So he had the most passes in the league AND the highest accuracy? You'll have to back that up with stats i'm afraid. But even if that's nearly true it'll be because he only ever passes sideways or backwards.

I know that in my life watching Chelsea there have been 3 players who I have had little to no faith in to be solid over a course of games. And Mikel even less than the other two because so damn often he'd make a mistake that would lead to us conceding.

You obviously have your opinion of him but everyone else has theirs too. Just don't be crying witch-hunt when people criticise him because it's not a minority of Chelsea fans that don't rate him, it's the majority.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I find that hard to believe. So he had the most passes in the league AND the highest accuracy? You'll have to back that up with stats i'm afraid. But even if that's nearly true it'll be because he only ever passes sideways or backwards.

I know that in my life watching Chelsea there have been 3 players who I have had little to no faith in to be solid over a course of games. And Mikel even less than the other two because so damn often he'd make a mistake that would lead to us conceding.

You obviously have your opinion of him but everyone else has theirs too. Just don't be crying witch-hunt when people criticise him because it's not a minority of Chelsea fans that don't rate him, it's the majority.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/8130025/John-Obi-Mikel-reborn-as-Chelseas-undisputed-pass-master.html

A minute ago you said your main criticism is that he gives the ball away too easily from bad passes, now it's that he only has a good passing accuracy because he only passes backwards and sideways?

This is exactly what I meant when I said that people have an unhealthy obsession with pinning imaginary faults on Mikel. But you're entitled to your opinion. I've long given up on trying to change people's opinions when they are scapegoating someone. I just state and clarify my opinion and everyone has the right to believe what they want.

[Viper22 2,418]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/8130025/John-Obi-Mikel-reborn-as-Chelseas-undisputed-pass-master.html

A minute ago you said your main criticism is that he gives the ball away too easily from bad passes, now it's that he only has a good passing accuracy because he only passes backwards and sideways?

This is exactly what I meant when I said that people have an unhealthy obsession with pinning imaginary faults on Mikel. But you're entitled to your opinion. I've long given up on trying to change people's opinions when they are scapegoating someone. I just state and clarify my opinion and everyone has the right to believe what they want.

I've never said that. My main criticism of him is that he gives the ball away too much through poor passing/dwelling on the ball, he dives into tackles and he only ever passes sideways or backwards. This game being a notable exception.

Matic has been fantastic this season. He's been our best player and i've been saying since last season that he's our most important. Write it off as coincidence that we lost the 1 game he was out if you want, that's your prerogative, but I know what i've seen.

As for him being a squad player, yeah that's true, but if you can't trust your squad players then you're in trouble. We need to replace him, and soon.

He has good passing accuracy when passing sideways and backwards. Well done! Anyone could do that. When he tries to pass the ball forwards he gives it away. It's really not that hard to understand what I said? .

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He has good passing accuracy when passing sideways and backwards. Well done! Anyone could do that. When he tries to pass the ball forwards he gives it away. It's really not that hard to understand what I said? .

You said:

My main criticism of him is that he gives the ball away too much through poor passing

That is VERY obviously false and can't be further from the truth. Even if he only passes sideways, which isn't true, he clearly doesn't give the ball away too much.

I could point out that in the 2012/13 season for example, he played a higher percentage of forward passes than Lampard and Ramires and averaged longer passing distances than both (I remember because I myself crunched the numbers at the time), but you'll most likely change your "main argument" to something else, so let's just drop it.

[Viper22 2,418]

You said:

That is VERY obviously false and can't be further from the truth. Even if he only passes sideways, which isn't true, he clearly doesn't give the ball away too much.

I could point out that in the 2012/13 season for example, he played a higher percentage of forward passes than Lampard and Ramires and averaged longer passing distances than both (I remember because I myself crunched the numbers at the time), but you'll most likely change your "main argument" to something else, so let's just drop it.

Good job at cutting out the rest of comment btw. There's a reason there's not a full stop there. For all the shit you give the Daily Mail for misquoting etc.....

Like you said though, we're not going to discuss it any more because you obviously won't have it.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Good job at cutting out the rest of comment btw. There's a reason there's not a full stop there. For all the shit you give the Daily Mail for misquoting etc.....

Like you said though, we're not going to discuss it any more because you obviously won't have it.

Wait, what does the rest of post matter? It is completely irrelevant and doesn't effect one bit that the part I quoted is completely false.

You want me to address the other point as well? Fine:

My main criticism of him is that he gives the ball away too much through poor passing/dwelling on the ball

Using his strength to keep the ball under pressure has always been his best attribute.

[Viper22 2,418]

Wait, what does the rest of post matter? It is completely irrelevant and doesn't effect one bit that the part I quoted is completely false.

You want me to address the other point as well? Fine:

Using his strength to keep the ball under pressure has always been his best attribute.

That really doesn't help your point. So he's worse at ball retention than Fabrice Muamba and Michael Carrick for all 3 years you quoted. And he's worse than Karl Henry, Barry Ferguson, Nigel De Jong, Steven N'Zonzi, Hendry Thomas, Ben Watson, Dickson Etuhu and Karl Henry 2 of the 3 years you quoted. Most of them are average players at best. And with his main work being his defenisve duties and not losing the ball... well...

Dear christ, that's even worse than I thought. He's the 14th (on average) best at ball retention in the league. Good god. Cheers for proving my point for me though xD.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

That really doesn't help your point. So he's worse at ball retention than Fabrice Muamba and Michael Carrick for all 3 years you quoted. And he's worse than Karl Henry, Barry Ferguson, Nigel De Jong, Steven N'Zonzi, Hendry Thomas, Ben Watson, Dickson Etuhu and Karl Henry 2 of the 3 years you quoted. Most of them are average players at best. And with his main work being his defenisve duties and not losing the ball... well...

Dear christ, that's even worse than I thought. Cheers for proving my point for me though xD.

He's constantly in the top 20 in the league even though most teams in those 3 season specifically targeted our central midfielders because we had trouble transition the ball to the forwards and he was always used as an outlet for players under pressure. His ball retention is like no other player in the league, how in the world can you have watched Mikel all those years and try to claim other wise?!

But, by all means, carry on believing that Mikel displaces many passes and gets dispossessed too much!

[Viper22 2,418]

He's constantly in the top 20 in the league even though most teams in those 3 season specifically targeted our central midfielders because we had trouble transition the ball to the forwards and he was always used as an outlet for players under pressure. His ball retention is like no other player in the league, how in the world can you have watched Mikel all those years and try to claim other wise?!

But, by all means, carry on believing that Mikel displaces many passes and gets dispossessed too much!

Being in the top 20 in the league constantly would be good if we were a mid-table team. If we want to be going for titles I would have thought we would want midfielders who are at least as good as Fabrice Muamba, Michael Carrick, Barry Ferguson, Nigel De Jong, Steven N'Zonzi, Hendry Thomas, Ben Watson, Dickson Etuhu and Karl Henry.

Being dispossessed more than those players is being dispossessed too much. How in the world can you look at what I have just stated (which are facts, from your data) and not see that.

The excuse about people targeting him is a good try, but I don't buy it.

"His ball retention is like no other player in the league". Actually, there are at least 10 players who have better ball retention than him season by season, but ok.

But yes, i'll keep believing the facts I see in front of me .

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Being in the top 20 in the league constantly would be good if we were a mid-table team. If we want to be going for titles I would have thought we would want midfielders who are at least as good as Fabrice Muamba, Michael Carrick, Barry Ferguson, Nigel De Jong, Steven N'Zonzi, Hendry Thomas, Ben Watson, Dickson Etuhu and Karl Henry.

Being dispossessed more than those players is being dispossessed too much. How in the world can you look at what I have just stated (which are facts, from your data) and not see that.

The excuse about people targeting him is a good try, but I don't buy it.

"His ball retention is like no other player in the league". Actually, there are at least 10 players who have better ball retention than him season by season, but ok.

But yes, i'll keep believing the facts I see in front of me .

You're really clutching at straws here. NO ONE, not even the people who bash Mikel, has ever said that Mikel is easily dispossessed! It's simply the opposite of reality!

You've changed the subject about half a dozen times and completely ignored the parts that prove your previous points false. I honestly don't believe that you have a specific point here except that you don't like Mikel and are trying to find anything to criticize him by.

But fine, continue believing whatever you insist on believing in. I give up.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Still thought we possibly could get at least a draw if Matic played against Newcastle. But oh well, it is in the past now.

[Viper22 2,418]

You're really clutching at straws here. NO ONE, not even the people who bash Mikel, has ever said that Mikel is easily dispossessed! It's simply the opposite of reality!

You've changed the subject about half a dozen times and completely ignored the parts that prove your previous points false. I honestly don't believe that you have a specific point here except that you don't like Mikel and are trying to find anything to criticize him by.

But fine, continue believing whatever you insist on believing in. I give up.

You say this after you have ignored everything I said about the stats you posted up? I do not dislike Mikel, I don't mind him at all but you can play him as a victim if you like.

But I agree we should stop because this is going nowhere.

[The Skipper 20,609]

People need to stop seeing Mikel as a direct replacement for Matic. They're very different. You can't seriously expect Matic like things from Mikel, that's ridiculous.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You say this after you have ignored everything I said about the stats you posted up? I do not dislike Mikel, I don't mind him at all but you can play him as a victim if you like.

But I agree we should stop because this is going nowhere.

Because what you are saying makes absolutely no sense. By your logic, the likes of Essien, Ballack, Meireles, Lampard, Ramires...etc. all aren't Chelsea quality because they are even much further down that table than Mikel! Surely they are a much better benchmark for comparing than Muamba since they play in the same team?

I have answered all your points, answer me, if your main point isn't just to bash Mikel, how in the word did your argument move from "he gives the ball away too much from his sloppy passing" to "he only consistently has the highest passing accuracy with the most passes because he only passes sideways" in a few minutes? And why did you completely then ignore my point that he used to play more percentage of his passes forward than our other central midfielders?

Tell me you don't think he's Chelsea quality, or that he is too slow to be playing for us, or that his passing lacks ambition, or that he offers nothing going forward, or that he lacks dynamism. I don't agree on all of them but I would accept your opinion. But just don't bash him with ridiculous criticism just for the sake of bashing.

[pHaRaOn 2,131]

Matic is irreplaceable. Simple as that.

[TheOneChan95 225]

I wonder how opponents feel when they have to face Matic.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

At first we signed him and saw his debut as a sub, my thought that who is this kid, a strong feeling that he will be 'a passanger' in Chelsea. Well in the end we ended up 'sold' him, but I thought that the last time I will be seeing him and heard his name.

How the time has changed, and how wrong my feeling was, lol. He is one of the best DM in entire world now. Glad Jose has decided to sign him back.