pluto

I find it a little odd too that they were so eager to give him a four year contract but that's Roman world for you! After watching Grant and how he operates on and off the pitch and from what I've read about his life in the Israeli league what we are seeing now is pretty much what you would expect. He was renowed for his dull, safety first, try to get a win and if not then don't lose no matter what style of football. Hence many Israeli journalists stunned surprise when he was put forward as the attacking balm to Mourinho's pragmatist age. Grant is no risk taker that much is certain, he is no risk taker because (a) it is not in his nature and never has been no matter what he might spout forth to you, me and Roman (b)because he is simply scared of losing, losing the fans respect (which he has never really had yet if full measure), losing any support he had from the press sick of the Mourinho ego trip as certain journos saw it and © worried about losing his job if the results get bad - the dream job he has assiduously worked his way towards getting by arse licking anyone who had power and influence to get him this far. The one thing I do disagree with you on is the intelligence aspect. Grant is intelligent, he was intelligent enough to spot that Roman had a hankering for a change of coach and insert himself into his circle in time and convince him that he was the man - he was intelligent enough to not change anything at the club when he came on board - again smart and he was intelligent to not allow his ego to get in the way and agree to Ten Cate coming on board and Clarke staying (a Mourinho cohort lest we forget) because he probably knew deep down he needed the support. Those are not actions of a stupid guy, but unfortunately there is that kind of intelligence and then there is the kind of intelligence which allows you to read a game in an instant, smell the mood of the crowd, sense the players mood at any one moment and the opposition's to boot and make your move at key moments with key players, willing to turn a formation around in a moment by not necessarily replacing like with like. It's this kind of intelligence that I don't think Grant has in any great abundance. I say "think" because I need to see him operate a few more times against a really big club not an Olympiakos or a Liverpool in bad form but a Man Utd, Arsenal, Barca, Milan - that kind of team. He may surprise me and prove that he has climbed a steep learning curve and what Mourinho had - that tactical nous and intelligence - is something Grant can acquire but I have my doubts. Beating Wigan, Derby, Sunderland, QPR and the like or crushing Man City or even beating a soon to implode Valencia have not convinced me that he's got what it takes there. Hope he proves me wrong, despite the fact I can't say I've warmed to the guy one bit. I think we will still be stuck with him into next season no matter what happens this - Roman has put his faith in this guy and there is no way he wants to look a mug for all to see. So Grant had better get things right at the sharp end of the season because the prospects for next season if he stays (but wins no silverware) seem very uncertain to me.

I agree in that I think he is generally defensive and cautious too, despite the fact that Grant said especially early on in his tenure that there would be no more playing for a draw malarky and Chelsea were not going to be afraid to lose anymore and would go all out for a win (as if we've always been terrified of winning which is bull). Well I'm sorry but it's pretty clear that this is all talk because his substitutions I would not suggest are overtly attacking and you can usually predict when they will be made and who will come off and who will come on. Rarely have I been surprised by any move he's made but then against most of the opposition we have played that really has been enough to get the result but it's when that's not enough that you need him to have some nous. Not all Mourinho's subs were perfect by any means, no manager can be 100% right. However, overall he got them pretty much spot on and they were often quite risky and never tardy. Ironic that for a man accused of playing boring football he could never be accused of being dull and slowfooted when trying to change a game.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your comment "if it aint broke don't fix it". Clearly Grant is smart enough to see that and for this season it appears he is going to change little and just carry on as is. The players have as good as confirmed this and that is no surprise you only need to look at the results and how the team play with your own eyes to see that. Looks like he might get more adventurous next season! And he will have to in order to keep Roman happy. Trouble is he lacks the tactical nous to make those changes that were so much a part of Mourinho's make up, you can copy the training, the team talks through say Cate or Clarke, the same system, style - you can copy all that but the one thing you cannot know how to replicate is how to change a game. You either have it or you don't or you have to try and learn how to get better at it fast. I think Grant is distinctly average in this area and that is where he falls on his face but lets just hope he learns shall we? He's the manager and he needs support from the fans so whether we like him or respect him or not we have to support him and hope he can make this work.

yeeeew thanks for that thought for the day! No wonder Avram looks grumpy he probably has to drink it at home quite a bit.

May not agree with some of you views warnie from other threads but I agree with your wish for peace, chill out and lets move on - yes indeed. Introducing topics about race, religion or politics into any conversation about sport is destined for disaster and all round bad feeling when previously people were getting on just fine and dandy.

I think Grant tactically plays it safe, he makes subs at the time you would expect subs to be made and often delays them far longer than we were used to under Jose who would often make subs very early on and often not like for like, they could also be multiple changes. I'm not saying this makes Grant a bad tactician just a very normal one. He seems fairly solid and predictable but with the team he has at his disposal and against most teams this really does not matter much because you can beat these teams being with solid tactical thinking. It's when you get to play against the likes of a Man Utd, Arsenal, Milan etc that you need to think a bit more "outside the box" on occasion. And for me I don't think Grant has that capacity or should I say he has not shown that to me as yet. Also I feel he relies very much on his backroom staff - far more than Mourinho ever did. He does this because he actually needs to because bottom line he is a coach plucked out of obscurity with little known rep for attacking football in Israel or making sparkling subs. For that he needs people with experience around him to help make those decisions and I firmly believe this is where Ten Cate comes in and Clarke with his long experience of working under Mourinho. So I would not say Grant is a poor tactician he simply is an average one who has yet to be proved at the top level. Time will tell if he is a fast learner or if he just has great back up staff or a combination of both. Nice to see this thread is back on track by the way!

I agree that it's more a psychological thing now in that I think teams believe we can be "got at" much more under Grant than under Mourinho. I too disliked the 1-0 shut downs as it made things incredibly nerve racking - one slip and you risked disaster. That said more often than not we were so secure that the idea that this would happen was rare - that didn't help my nerves though! Now Grant to be fair is trying to play more expansive football - well he says he is I don't see that much of an enormous sea change - but still even a small change sends signals out that you are more open (literally) to a game where the result is not almost preordained. Under Mourinho you could almost guarantee the result was going to be a 1-0 or 2-0 victory under Avram I'm never too sure what is going to happen anymore! Not sure if this is a good thing or not. Any way Grant is now in charge and basically we've all got to put up with whatever is served to us just like we did under Mourinho.

Actually it wont prove that much since Liverpool are not technically one of the top three anymore despite their big name rep and history. They are 5th and scrabbling for a CL spot. Grant this season proving himself would be against one of our in form rivals for the title and that is Arsenal and Man Utd this season. Liverpool are not even at the races. So Grant beating Liverpool will not make me believe he has the X factor just because he puts one over on Benitez you could argue he has already been practising as he's done it once already in the Carling Cup (although Liverpool were not that interested and fielded a much weaker squad). I doubt a draw very much, a comfortable win at the end for Chelsea 2-0 should do it for Grant. Liverpool are missing key players with no really adequate back up (unlike us) and they are in poor form to boot, yes they will make an extra effort because it is Chelsea but their record at the Bridge is woeful and in fact Benitez's record against MU and Arsenal is just as bad. The good run of results against Liverpool in the league will continue tomorrow for Grant. I doubt Man Utd will drop points this weekend, may be Arsenal will have a tougher time of it but despite the fact this is Liverpool they are where they are for a reason this season.

This thead is up to 11 pages and I swear about only 5 is about the actual topic! Come on no more clap trap about race I'm fed up with it, I don't care! Green, yellow, pink, blue, Israeli, English, Indian it's all one big melting pot to me. Avram failed to beat Jose's winning record at Pompey, have to admit I thought it was a given the way his luck's been going. I'll bet if Jose is still taking an interest he would have had a chuckle over his glass of red vino that weekend.

I wish Grant would go back to school and stay there - just kidding all you Grant devotees! Although I think that if you were consistently brown nosing, arse licking or "bum bothering" (lovely turn of phrase Fulham) you would have spent the time making sure you had the top licences needed to impress your many many friends. And boy does Grant have them, is there anyone this man apparently does not know? He seems to have spent the last twenty years arse licking everyone in sight, his tongue must be tainted brown by now surely? Jason Burt in the Indy or Times said the only time Grant tends to get animated is when he is talking about all the famous friends he knows - why does that not surprise me? We tend to get excited about things we are proud of/excel at and Grant obviously is very good at acquiring people to help him out. Pity he didn't have the time to get his coaching badges too but we can't do everything all at once can we. Any way good luck with those exams Avram but don't worry if you bust out just suck up to the examiner you probably know the guy anyway!

The team is more than strong enough to cope with Pompey as it has been to cope with the likes of QPR, Wigan, Reading et al. Pompey record against us is pretty dire I believe so it should be a comfortable win 2-0 or 2-1.

Congrats warnie! And like you say peace people peace, lets not start accusing each other of being racist etc please! Everyone on here seems pretty much okay in their views even if some of them express themselves a little more forthrightly than others.

I guess my doubts are based on similar factors to those Fulham mentioned. Taking over a team like Grant has and apparently making it continue on being successful people subscribe to this as some kind of miracle and hence Grant himself is brilliant, well like Fulham said, I have a tough time getting my head around the idea that Grant is equal to Mourinho or a Fergie or Wenger or Benitez for that matter. I'm not about to give the guy a bunch of flowers yet. How people can compare him to Mourinho in terms of quality based just about these stats I'm not sure. It's a guide to nothing too fundamental quality wise in my view just yet. May be in a season or more we will know more. We are successful right now and that's the main thing!

Yes peace all around, I don't want to get into a writing fist fight with anyone, even if we do share different views. Respect.

Now don't beat around the bush just tell me what you feel, no vague hints, come on! Have to admit, despite his good run, despite his apparent ability to cope with injuries, despite it all, I'm still in the jury still out camp about this guy's ultimate abilities. Yep I know that makes me look about the dumbest guy in town right now but that's just the way it is. And I'm not sure even the sight of Grant lifting a champions league trophy over his head would convince me is he the next messiah of the coaching firmament.

Nice one!

That's what I was trying to say thanks Elliott. Look I don't want to get into a Grant v Jose pissing contest or annoy anyone because it's silly do that the past is the past. However, this thread is about comparing the two sets of results - the 28 games of Jose's v Grant and deciding how impressed we are or not by what Grant has achieved. warnie seemed to be suggesting that the buys of Jose which he bought as cover for such an event we are experiencing now have either hardly helped at all or been total crap or have not played. Well I argue that over the period of Grant's reign they have indeed all proved useful - Alex and Belletti have been vital, Pizarro has chipped in the odd vital goal or assist, even Sidwell whom I would suggest has been the least used has been of help. TBH has okay not been stellar but he has not been Bhoula and has had reasonably good solid matches at times. If I have confused the Christmas period and just generally over the term when trying to explain my points then I'm sorry to warnie. However, I stick by what I say in that Grant has benefitted from Mourinho's planning over the summer, finally getting the go ahead (too late for last season) to make vital squad purchases and Grant has been able to get through his time here much more favourably because of that. If these players were not available to Grant who would he be playing please tell? Would he be like Mourinho having to find someone or may be two players to play out of position? Would he possibly be struggling having to think about dipping into the youth squad? The same youth squad that Arnesen keeps working on but apparently baring no real fruit year after year? If that is seen as taking away some of the credit unfairly by some fans from Grant then so be it. I realise Mourinho did not do well over the Christmas period I'm not suggesting he did and Grant has done much better but I think there are reasons why Grant has seemingly had so much better results at some points in this season and especially over Christmas.

I read the thread headline and thought it said enjoyment and circumcision! Thought what the hell..

warnie I don't think I suggested that Mourinho was blameless only that he did not have a change to get defensive cover when he needed it in the January transfer window and it is that cover now which has aided Grant immeasurably. The Mourinho have bought generally have ably assisted us over Grant's entire tenure not just Christmas! But thinking recently, Pizarro scored the only goal which beat QPR I believe that kept us alive the that cup. Pizarro provided the assist for Kalou's offside goal against Newcastle at the death, without that I doubt he would have scored. TBH despite some dodgy games has also been needed and used, Sidwell to a much lesser extent but has been used and praised by Grant. It was Malouda's pass that got the goal for Joe against Everton, he also played very well I think in the first leg. to suggest these are full of crap and have not helped Grant at all is simply untrue. If he had not had Alex or TBH or Belletti which players would he be picking during those games with no JT et al around? May be playing people out of position like Mourinho did may be? These are squad players who have been used a lot when required due to injuries and they have indeed all helped us stay alive in 4 competitions in their own way! I've already explained why I believe we did so well this Christmas bearing in mind the quality of the teams we faced and the comparative strenghts of our squad. Fulham were not in the relegation zone last year and had just sacked their manager! We did not have to play Villa away and Reading were far stronger last year than say a Newcastle this who were a team in crisis. The calibre of our opposition during the Christmas period was not as good and due to the purchases made in the summer our squad did not have to play people out of position and we had good cover to cope yes during the Christmas and January period! Ballack suddenly coming back for Lampard when injured was a real boon for Grant and he was in form too. Although Grant has got the same record as Mourinho and is earning just praise for how he took over and maintained things I'm just not as impressed as you are that's all. Why do people always assume if you are negative towards Grant that you think Mourinho is utterly blameless in everything? Not sure I ever said he was just pointed out that Mourinho correcting some of his yes mistakes for the past has been what has ably assisted Grant now. Grant has the support of the board and Mourinho did not at the end - that can a lot of change things. Lets just agree to disagree then shall we?

I agree with you Elliott that Grant has done better than expected when he first arrived but Warnie seems to be suggesting I should give him more respect than what I've done so far and that I'm not nearly giving him enough. Okay so I was joking about the "nirvana" bit! However, I'm sorry I give any more respect to Grant, simply upon the basis of what I've seen so far with the teams we have played and with the players we have used. I do think he's done a good job and surprised many people I would not deny that but I'm still very unsure about the guy in terms of his managerial talent despite the run of results and how great he is with the press keeping things low key etc which I agree is much better than with Mourinho.

I'm not suggesting we should not praise Avram but I can't get myself into a state of nirvana over his management to date sorry I just can't. Injury wise what has Grant had as replacements? Ballack a German captain and international for Lampard! Yeah that's a real bust out. Alex an international for JT - have you missed JT really? Belletti has been available, Ashley Cole and Bridge both available, Joe Cole and SWP both usually fit, and now Anelka to help in attack. Last season we had Essien and Ferreira playing at CB or RB in one game! We have cover now - excellent squad cover and that had aided Grant enormously. And who have we played during this time? Newcastle in crisis about to sack their manager, Fulham just sacked their manager, Blackburn going through a scoring slump, the only team that did bother us was Villa and we played them at home so we had at least some sort of advantage. It says something when you can say we are going through difficult times because you "only" have Ballack but no Lampard, Joe Cole but no Malouda, Alex and Belletti but no JT or Ferreira and no Mikel okay then how about Maka a legend to replace him? Yes that's really is scraping the bottom of the pit isn't it? Yes we have had squad depletion but when you consider the options Grant has had available it's a joke to talk of a reserve squad struggling against the likes of a Wigan et al and how hard it must be for him to formulate a decent side. If he was playing Arse or Man you then yes I'd be more concerned but not the competition we've been facing over Christmas. Mourinho was given no cover in January which he badly needed, when he asked for reinforcements he was told to sod off. Grant wanted a striker? Take you pick. He bought Anelka, the same Anelka that scored and gave an assist against Wigan. The squad cover purchased in the summer (Belletti, Alex, Sidwell and god help us Pizarro) that has helped Grant maintain that nice calm, stoic demenour you are raving about. No wonder he didn't complain, total support of the boss, can buy players during the transfer window to get him out of a hole if necessary and he a good quality players in reserve who will also be able to play in their correct positions. Throw in toothless opposition of the likes of Wigan, Newcastle, Fulham, QPR and your laughing. Grant may have had it difficult but not half as difficult as some like to pretend. We probably have the deepest squad in the premiership and the way we have coped without a blip merely confirms that. We have international players not only in our first team but very often in our second now as well.

Love your quote, I'm trying to think positive thoughts about Mr Grant whenever I can even when he carries on about our non existent new style and looks as if someone has died every day he cares about but you sure have a way of putting things that makes me grin whether I agree 100% or not!

No Warnie, I'm not suggesting he should have changed things that much because yes it would have upset the team balance and results most probably. But equally I don't see why I should shower Grant with praise either for basically not really doing much at all other than continue on with what has already been laid down for him, he has a great squad, with great quality, great inbuilt team spirit and experience and he has benefitted accordingly. Through in the additional aggro factor for me of his claims that we are playing better football under him than previously and that things are changing from what went before - well I just have to sigh inwardly every time. Yes he deserves plaudits for what he has done but I will not be going down on bended knee to laud his genius as a manager when sources from within the club can't actually put their finger on what he does do but only on what he doesn't! Next season I think we will see hopefully more of the real Avram Grant right now I see is Mourinho's team playing like just they used to. Sorry, please point me to the stats that say we are winning more games than under Jose - I thought the stats said he has the same record at this stage to the one Jose did when he started? And no we are not attacking more in games, I can count on the fingers of one hand where we apparently attacked more overtly than we might have done under Mourinho, in other games we have played exactly as we have done before. You obviously are taken in by the Grant mantra after every game about how much more we attack now than ever before. Classic example the Derby game when our players were taking the ball to the corner flag to waste the minutes out until the end of the game which we had in the end comfortably won! If we are so much more attacking why are we still winning games 1-0 or 2-0 generally? Jimmy Anfield on Five Live after the Wigan game said how it was interesting to see how Grant had maintained the importance of a solid defence just like Mourinho and how much importance he placed on it - seems he's got Jose tinted specs on too. I don't need any Jose blinkers to know we are playing pretty much the same way, I can hear it from the media, many fans and pundits who commentate on the Chelsea games and they tell a similar tale so it's not just me that's insane then it's quite a few of the footballing population who apparently are missing this new attack minded Chelsea Grant has created. What he has done in not changing anything is smart but copying something that was already pretty darn good is not the work of brilliance, just common sense.

Beating a top team would be a start, that's what people wavering about Grant point to as a reason he cannot be considered that red hot just yet. Beating the likes of Derby, Sunderland, Wigan et all are all well and good but you expect a team like Chelsea to do so. With the 4 point gap, beating the likes of Arsenal and Man Utd are critical and lets not forget poor old Liverpool (although it is easy to do so). He will have our wonderful home record to maintain and the players will certainly aid him in that they will be more than up to it. But if he wins those games will I suddenly come around and recognize him as the messiah? No like others on here if I'm honest I would still have my doubts about him. I just think that he has a very good team to manage and some very good back up men to help him manager, coupled with an very strong squad and some jammy luck at times he's squeaked through but sometimes only by the skin of his teeth. I guess believing someone with all the apparent charisma of plank of wood and the communication skills of a dead body can effectively inspire this team to further consistent success ranks for me as being up there with an alien invasion any time soon. I don't think he's in Mourinho's league in terms of tactical nous or ability to inspire players and develop them and I still don't despite the tally of same results. What I want to see is how he copes next season with his own players, no excuses about taking over from another manager at a bad time and he has to play more attacking football to keep Roman happy not just talk about it all the time. Then we can see what this guy is really made of, not what he's made of now using Mourinho's team, training methods and style to get there. Lampard said something interesting the other day that people should take note of as it simply confirms to me what I already knew, Grant has done nothing to change anything at Chelsea since his arrival - not training, not tactics, not attitude. Hmmmmm, so Avram's big message to entertain more is based on pretty much the same modus operandi as Mourinho, erxpress yourself if you can but make sure you win when the whistle blows! Funny why does that not surprise me after seeing what Avram has served up these last four months in terms of new style "entertainment". The King is dead long live the King and all that. JT also confirmed a few weeks back that Grant has done little to change anything training wise until next season because he didn't want to disrupt anything. Just shows you there was little wrong with what Mourinho was doing because otherwise Grant would have needed to start meddling but the fact he can let the players carry on as they were tells me all I need to know. People want to know why Avram's done so well and has exactly the same record as Mourinho? Well you have your answer because we are still doing everything a la Mourinho that's why and Grant's rather hapless and groan inducing attempts to pretend otherwise during some press conferences can be seen to be just smoke and mirrors hiding a fundamental truth. The emphasis with Grant should be on "little" in terms of doing "little" to rock the boat of what was and is a winning machine more often than not. And he is the very lucky recepient of a bedrock of success built up initially with Ranieri and then fully realised under Mourinho. Why should I praise a guy to the heavens for doing nothing more than faithfully copying what his predecessor does because he knows it gets results? It may be a smart thing to do but how brave or brilliant is that? It just shows he's smart enough to know a good thing when he sees it - well join the club! I'll praise him when he does something that is not based on what Mourinho did and he does it with his own team and he does it consistently.

I'm just going down this thread responding here and there and I choked on my tea - you sure have a way with words mate!