The only place to be

There's generally a big drop in the quality of our play when Mata is used. He doesn't press as well, he doesn't counter as fast and he just looks slower. Agreed that if you want to change the system we play to one that suits him then we should absolutely keep him. Doesn't really matter if we still have Mata if Hazard is injured. Schurrle would almost certainly play. We'd lack depth but we could go to 433 which we've played this season more than once If Oscar got injured then Hazard or Willian would take his position. It's what happened at Southampton. Again, we need to talk about what Jose has done and is likely to do, not what people on here want him to do. Good point...except Mata was playing on the RIGHT-WING in that game and Hazard was in the centre. Oscar and Willian changed that game for us completely and Oscar put the team on his back (not for the first time). And Lewandowski is now going to Bayern for free. I love Mata, but there's a point at which reality needs to take precedence over sentimentality. He's been a great servant for us for a few years now, but he's simply being wasted on the bench. If we needed him then I'd be against selling him, but we don't. There are 5 players I'd use instead of him at the moment. I don't like the idea of us selling to United and I'm praying PSG come in with some dirty Euros, but I also think United aren't the same United without Ferguson. Mata isn't in the top 12 players I'd be terrified of them getting (mostly CMs). I'm saying we've played 433 with Oscar operating as a right-winger who actually plays centrally quite a bit with Ramires working his bollocks off in the right channels. I brought it up in response to people suggesting we'd suffer injuries in certain positions. I made a light-hearted comment at the end of a more serious (or as serious as football discussions get) post. Back on the ignore list with you. Enjoy your pint.

He might be our best player, but if he doesn't fit the system then what use is he? Then go and support United. You've already expressed a desire to see Mata come back and destroy us so you're halfway there. If you think watching players like Eden Hazard is boring then I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you. Yes we need to develop youth and there are cases where we could've done so but I hope this is something we commit to in the future. Jose is saying all the right things and the inclusion of Ake, Kalas and Baker in first-team plans is a nice step but we need to do more. But he deserves time to do so. By my reckoning, Mourinho has given as many under-18s their debuts as Wenger has this year.

Under Moyes? I'd rather we sold Mata to PSG but if there's no offer on the table then you're left with hoping Mata retains value in the summer.

Are you fucking kidding me? Did you watch the game? Perfectly fine? Compared to what? Did you not see the tempo of the game increase in every aspect with the introduction of Oscar and Willian??? Bertrand wasn't used in the FA Cup or the league cup tie at Sunderland (might have been injured but who knows?). As for delusion I think you wrote the book on it Mr Fan since 2007. I'm not sure you have that authority though. What about the results? He was used in all 3 PL losses. We were drawing away to Southampton and Norwich until he was removed (in the 81st minute at Norwich), and went on to win. It was 1-1 at home to Cardiff until he was replaced with Oscar - 4-1. It's harsh because he's a great player but he seems to undermine the system when he's playing and it's not his fault. The system is fucking hard to play. He was injured so much in his final season and was becoming a shadow of his former self which was a massive shame. Why you still haven't forgiven Jose says more about you, although you've already said you're looking forward to Mata destroying us in a United shirt. Fuck knows what you think supporting a club is.

I'll agree that we haven't seen enough progress with the young players but we at least seem to be trying to develop a cohesive system that every age group team will play, thus easing their transition. Oscar has developed, as has Hazard arguably. I'd say we play very exciting football now which seems to be getting results. But people like you seem to just moan all the fucking time so who really gives a fuck. The mood around this club is 180 degrees from where it was last season. People like you seem so far removed from what the crowds actually think that it's almost laughable, but this club was at the lowest ebb I've ever experienced just a year ago. Now we're challenging for the title and still in the CL with a manager that the fans on the terraces love. But because we're selling a substitute to a rival then everything is shit. Grow Up!

Using Mata changes the system as well though. Haven't you noticed that? And we've already used 433 with Rami in the middle interchanging with Oscar on the right and the pressing and counter system STILL worked. With Mata is simply doesn't. 64 minutes in the league less than Bertrand. Fabulous point there dear. Can't say I'm happy about selling him to United, but you (specifically you) have no way of knowing that his value will remain the same in the summer. United are panic buying at the moment and normally panic buys are more pricey. Ultimately this comes down to the reality of using Mata this season.

I get what you're saying but we don't have to be the new United. With our ownership structure we're very different anyway. What this might signal is the ultimate commitment to a new way of football though. Mata is a great player but he doesn't suit the system. AVB wasn't allowed to change the personnel to suit his system (thank god in the end cause he's shit), but Jose seems to be allowed to sell one of our most popular players so that he can build the team HE wants. We can talk about statements from United, but at the end of the day they're buying an out-of-favour player who may or may not fit their system. We're giving a huge vote of confidence in Jose Mourinho. This is a massive moment for this club and I'm willing to back them.

Unless we play a 433 or use Ramires on the wing. OH NO, Rami on the wing....is Mata much more useful to us in this system? No mate I don't think that. I simply think that selling players we don't use or letting 3rd choice left-backs who have played about an hour of league football leave on loan isn't the end of the world. Also Cahill, Luiz, Terry, Cole, Azpi, Ivanovic, Ake and Kalas is 8 players, not 6. Mata wasn't used against Derby and we won both league matches either side of it. He may well be used against Stoke though and that's a great use of a £40 million asset.

Did you object to the De Bruyne sale for the same reason? Squad depth only makes sense if the player is actually used, and also doesn't weaken the system we play. Can you say both of those things apply to Mata?

Nice that you're keeping an open mind regarding the development of Oscar despite him being a couple of years younger than Mata.

Except Mata doesn't play. When he does play, our AMs aren't generally the strength they are when we've got Oscar, Willian and Hazard in the side. If we get injuries in those positions to Hazard and Oscar for example, we're fucked whether we still have Mata or not because our team is built around those types of players. Mata isn't needed. United's real targets might actually be available in the summer though. This is a panic buy by them. If we sell Mata, we lose a player who doesn't actually seem to make our team function in quite the same way it does without him. Honestly at this point in time he might actually be sixth choice AM behind Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Schurrle and Ramires. When we play a top team, NOBODY includes Mata. So we're going to say no to £40 million for a player to only appear against Stoke in the FA Cup and maybe West Ham in the league.....oh wait, we can't afford a replay so we probably shouldn't risk playing Mata against Stoke because last time he played against them we lost. And against West Ham we only played 2 AMs so doe we need him for that one or could we go with a 3 man midfield of Lamps, Matic and Rami? Oh shit, I've got it. CARBONITE. The people who want to keep Mata don't actually want to play him. They want to Han Solo him and hang him in Jabba's palace (no jokes about the woman who owns Southampton please lads). That will be a real statement piece...it'll really tie the room together.

Who? Weren't you the guy who said we were signing Cavani in the summer? But I just bought a Mata shirt (actually have...this is precisely why I don't get names printed on my shirts). Is that the 'royal we'?

Blimey. We got there eventually. Fantastic point. Mourinho is the boss. He's the one we're trusting to lead us for the next decade or more (ideally) whereas Mata is just one player. He's a fabulous player and he's given us some great memories, but he's one player. And here's the thing....We've already replaced him with Willian. Our first XI looks no different if we sell Mata or keep him. The big difference is £40 million more to spend on transfers. We could buy Shaw and our team is better. We could buy Zouma and our team is potentially stronger down the line. We could maybe even buy a striker and our team is better. And yes we lose some squad depth but we're talking about 2 injuries having to happen to the group of Hazard, Oscar, Willian and Schurrle. EVEN IF that happens we could still go to a 433 with 2 of them playing on the wings and 3 in the middle as we have done already this season. The sticking point seems to be selling Mata to United and it does trouble me, but they need more than just him. They'll still be managed by Moyes who seems remarkably one dimensional and in Rooney they already have a number 10 who is rather productive this season. To me they still need that CM and maybe even a CB or two (and a left-back - if it's Shaw we could actually use the funds to get him in now). It's a divisive transfer but the club deserve some patience from the fans. We're potentially making a £25 million profit by selling two unwanted players - people saying this is the club thinking short-term again are talking shit. The club has dramatically changed the way they do business and this is a perfect example of buying young players who will retain or increase in value. I trust Jose. Who's with me?

So all they need is a world class cm....that would be the world class cm they can't sign at the moment and haven't been able to sign for the last four years. You left defenders off that list too. And a right-back. And a manager. You're letting your excitement at the prospect of United beating Chelsea make you miss these minor things.

Funny that in all the Mata vs Oscar debate, the thread for the guy who has taken the right-wing spot off of Mata is a peaceful place. Massively underrated this guy and I love how he chases down balls back to the keeper. Sets the tone for our defensive efforts...would love a left-footed version of him.

Against West Ham he sorta played on the right, with Rami covering him too. It doesn't seem to when we've used it. It sounds incredibly harsh but if we lose two of Hazard, Willian, Oscar or Schurrle to injury, we're in some shit with or without Mata.

Well we have played 433 this season so if we were to suffer 2 injuries to the 4 remaining AMs, we could play with just 2 wingers potentially.

I don't know if there are any easy games though. I actually think that Schurrle might be ahead of Mata in the pecking order too. Against Southampton Hazard played in the middle ahead of Mata, with Schurrle on the left. It's possible he's our 5th choice AM right now, ignoring our ability to play 433 especially with Matic added to the squad and Lamps fit again. That means we have 4 players for 2 positions potentially.

What type of supporter wants to see an ex-player 'destroy' the team he professes to support, just so he can be proven right? I'm happy Eto'o proved me wrong on Sunday. I'm happy Willian proved me wrong. I'm happy Cahill proved me wrong. You know why? Because it was best for Chelsea Football Club. Fuck Mata FC, you seem to be supporting Gilvorak FC.

How much depth does Mata actually provide if Mourinho doesn't trust him? It sounds awfully unfair on Mata, but he's appeared in all three of our league defeats this season. In our wins against Man City, Liverpool and Man United he was an unused sub (apologies if any of this is wrong). Now that's not a massive sample size but there are a few other games. Against both Norwich away and Cardiff at home we were drawing 1-1. After Mata was removed in both games, we went on to win scoring a combined FIVE goals. Against Southampton away we went from drawing 0-0 to winning 3-0. Again, not a massive sample size but Mata simply isn't as important to this team as he once was and doesn't seem to fit into Mourinho's plans so what value does he actually have to this team?

Fucking ridiculous. Lukaku is a young man who needs to learn to be quiet, but whoever put that video on their website is equally stupid.

Except they've lost one of the greatest managers of all time and installed Moyes, which is why they can't get any of the players they actually want. Because he wasn't in the manager's immediate plans, wanted to leave and we needed strengthening in other areas.

The other way of looking at this is to string United along for a couple of weeks, then say no. Let their fans get excited before it being another Fabregas deal, or simply let them put all their eggs in one basket. Ideally we'd be looking at a bidding war developing and a right-winger becoming available though. It's just a shame that players like Reus or Draxler are primarily left-sided.

You mean like scouring a journalist's works and picking out what is nothing more than a typo (sorry, but for football followers of a certain age the first Enrique you think of is Luis) in an article which has plenty of correct predictions in it in order to discredit him? I tend to agree. We could let United tumble out of the CL this season, whereas adding Mata could get them into that spot. The City fans are quite vocal about us letting United 'die' by not selling them Mata, but I do tend to think their problems run deeper (and lie deeper) than a player who is most effective as a number 10. Rooney is productive this year when fit and RVP has had two seasons where he's made more than 30 league appearances. There's a good case that those last couple of years were an aberration and he's as injury-prone as a lot of people thought he was. Let's be honest...we're all waiting for a French team to step in and buy Mata, no matter how much we love him. We're quite happy to let him sail off into obscurity, occasionally popping up in the Champions League and letting him collect half-a-dozen league medals and millions of Euros. He'd probably love Paris too.

The bolded bit is a good reason to sell Mata now. It's unlikely he'll increase in value post-World Cup and United are desperate. I agree that losing him weakens us, but I'm also not that sure if keeping him strengthens us. It's a tricky one, but I wouldn't be certain either way right now. If Oscar gets injured I'd imagine Hazard would move into the middle and Schurrle would go on the left. If Hazard gets injured, Schurrle starts. I think these are the cases whether we have Mata or not. He'd get more games if we had injuries but I'd expect them to be on the right.