The English Football Thread

[Barbara 15,149]

When was the last time he was dropped? A few weeks ago and not long before that as well.

Great player in theory but a liability on it and the supporters' patience is wearing thin. Watch the goal mouth scramble against Palace and watch Luiz. It's utterly incredible. I'm not kidding.

I can accept that. The same way imo Zouma our Cahill aren't any better or any closer and cost matches as much (or goals, or whatever). Cahill has made more mistakes than Luiz this season imo. The thing is his mistakes are way more subtle, many times Cech saved his ass with good defenses or the strikers from opposition screwed the chances he gave them; still all blame is on Luiz. That's my point.

Luiz is Mourinho's second CB in the team, the thing is he was in shocking form a couple of months ago. Then he was injured and now he's not in form. Wait a couple of weeks until he's in form and come talk to me again about our defense. He'll continue to make mistakes (all CBs do), but in form (physically and with match rhythm) Luiz even when he isn't at the top of his game is much better than the current Cahill we have. Cahill had a very solid start of season, but he's been collecting mistakes for a while now. His specialty seems to be man-watch, be out of position and move at snail speed (which is reason enough for him to position himself better, but still he doesn't) but many here disregard those as a mistake. If he doesn't break someone's leg inside the box, make a pass to an opponent and miss a tackle then he's exempt from any responsibilities. Good thing for him he doesn't do any of those (he does miss the eventual tackle here and there, as any CB in the world)

Yeah conveniently ignore that I also said for us last season...

which was my point even before his post. He had a great season for us, many dismiss it as good and some even not good enough showcasing a couple of mistakes in a 60-match season.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yeah conveniently ignore that I also said for us last season...

He was better for us last season, but still not the defender we thought he'd be when we signed him and plenty of people were convinced he was a central midfielder. Hoddle still does in fact and I'm inclined to agree.

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

[The only place to be 11,313]

I can accept that. The same way imo Zouma our Cahill aren't any better or any closer and cost matches as much (or goals, or whatever). Cahill has made more mistakes than Luiz this season imo. The thing is his mistakes are way more subtle, many times Cech saved his ass with good defenses or the strikers from opposition screwed the chances he gave them; still all blame is on Luiz. That's my point.

Luiz is Mourinho's second CB in the team, the thing is he was in shocking form a couple of months ago. Then he was injured and now he's not in form. Wait a couple of weeks until he's in form and come talk to me again about our defense. He'll continue to make mistakes (all CBs do), but in form (physically and with match rhythm) Luiz even when he isn't at the top of his game is much better than the current Cahill we have. Cahill had a very solid start of season, but he's been collecting mistakes for a while now. His specialty seems to be man-watch, be out of position and move at snail speed (which is reason enough for him to position himself better, but still he doesn't) but many here disregard those as a mistake. If he doesn't break someone's leg inside the box, make a pass to an opponent and miss a tackle then he's exempt from any responsibilities. Good thing for him he doesn't do any of those.

which was my point even before his post. He had a great season for us, many dismiss it as good and some even not good enough showcasing a couple of mistakes in a 60-match season.

I couldn't give a fuck if Cahill is worse. He isn't wanted by Barca and we didn't spend £24 million on him.

I can forgive Cahill because his flaw is that he's just not very good. David Luiz has more talent than almost any central defender in the world but it doesn't count for shit if he doesn't try and get the most out of it. I'm so fed up with his lack of commitment, his stupid brainfarts and the continuing adoration because of his sideshow bob hair and Miley Cyrus mannerisms.

Gary Neville nailed-him correctly. On his day he's amongst the best in the world but he can't be relied on. That's why he's been dropped twice this season and why any serious bid should be considered.

[The Skipper 20,593]

He was better for us last season, but still not the defender we thought he'd be when we signed him and plenty of people were convinced he was a central midfielder. Hoddle still does in fact and I'm inclined to agree.

He was well on his way though, and most people thought he'd truly establish himself as a WC defender this season because he wasn't far off it at all last season. He had plenty of great, world class games at CB last season...

But of course, because he isn't performing right now all of that is completely forgotten.

[The only place to be 11,313]

He was well on his way though, and most people thought he'd truly establish himself as a WC defender this season because he wasn't far off it at all last season. He had plenty of great, world class games at CB last season...

But of course, because he isn't performing right now all of that is completely forgotten.

There was plenty of discussion about him becoming world class and he simply hasn't. He's 26 and he plays with the same problems he did when he was 23 except he puts the ball out of play far more now.

Under Jose he's regressed and Terry has re-emerged as our main defender. Luiz can't even keep Cahill out of the side so if an offer comes in for him then why don't we go for a young defender with potential rather than a 26 year old with unfulfilled potential?

[The Skipper 20,593]

There was plenty of discussion about him becoming world class and he simply hasn't. He's 26 and he plays with the same problems he did when he was 23 except he puts the ball out of play far more now.

Under Jose he's regressed and Terry has re-emerged as our main defender. Luiz can't even keep Cahill out of the side so if an offer comes in for him then why don't we go for a young defender with potential rather than a 26 year old with unfulfilled potential?

It's not as black and white as him not being able to keep Cahill out of the team...

He was rightly dropped and before he had the opportunity to get back into the team he got injured for some time.

And why not invest into another player? Simple. Luiz is far closer to the complete article than someone like Zouma who would need a lot more time.

Luiz was about to explode into the complete article. Had a great end to last season, was absolutely brilliant in the Confederations Cup, truly world class (I still think his goal line clearance won the game for Brazil) and was set to affirm his status as a top class defender this season but obviously due to injuries and lack of form he's not hit that sort of form yet and I don't think it's just an individual problem.

A lot of players in our team are under performing right about now. It's more to do with the way the team is set up. I don't think Mourinho is getting the best out of our players at all - yes Jose is missing some tools but it doesn't excuse the inconsistency almost the whole team have shown this season.

[Korea 734]

Oh em gee...

David Luiz world class conversation again.....

Only people that think that are Chelsea fans and some people from Brazil......

[dave30 728]

On another note, any non-City fan or God forbid, girl, who sings the ya ya Toure song needs to reassess their life.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Oh em gee...

David Luiz world class conversation again.....

Only people that think that are Chelsea fans and some people from Brazil......

If you're not going to add anything constructive to a decent discussion there is no need to comment.

[The only place to be 11,313]

On another note, any non-City fan or God forbid, girl, who sings the ya ya Toure song needs to reassess their life.

I once indulged in a bit of 'Niall Quinn's Disco Pants'.....probably should re-phrase that.

It's not as black and white as him not being able to keep Cahill out of the team...

He was rightly dropped and before he had the opportunity to get back into the team he got injured for some time.

And why not invest into another player? Simple. Luiz is far closer to the complete article than someone like Zouma who would need a lot more time.

He's 26 and we're still talking about being close to the finished article. Personally I think he's still making the same mistakes he did 2 and a half years ago.

Luiz was about to explode into the complete article.

Really? I think he could've and he simply hasn't.

It's not as black and white as him not being able to keep Cahill out of the team...

He was rightly dropped and before he had the opportunity to get back into the team he got injured for some time.

And why not invest into another player? Simple. Luiz is far closer to the complete article than someone like Zouma who would need a lot more time.

Luiz was about to explode into the complete article. Had a great end to last season, was absolutely brilliant in the Confederations Cup, truly world class (I still think his goal line clearance won the game for Brazil) and was set to affirm his status as a top class defender this season but obviously due to injuries and lack of form he's not hit that sort of form yet and I don't think it's just an individual problem.

A lot of players in our team are under performing right about now. It's more to do with the way the team is set up. I don't think Mourinho is getting the best out of our players at all - yes Jose is missing some tools but it doesn't excuse the inconsistency almost the whole team have shown this season.

Had a great end to last season, was absolutely brilliant in the Confederations Cup, truly world class (I still think his goal line clearance won the game for Brazil) and was set to affirm his status as a top class defender this season but obviously due to injuries and lack of form he's not hit that sort of form yet and I don't think it's just an individual problem.

A lot of players in our team are under performing right about now. It's more to do with the way the team is set up. I don't think Mourinho is getting the best out of our players at all - yes Jose is missing some tools but it doesn't excuse the inconsistency almost the whole team have shown this season.

The thing is I don't really care about his form. It's been good and it's been bad, but ultimately I think his problems are all mental. Top players have a certain mentality and I just don't see it in him. I don't think it's something he's going to suddenly develop and I'll be the first to say he's one of the most technically gifted defenders around, but there's something missing.

Bottling the challenge up at Newcastle and the entire performance against Cardiff just confirmed my views.

[Korea 734]

If you're not going to add anything constructive to a decent discussion there is no need to comment.

It's not as black and white as him not being able to keep Cahill out of the team...

He was rightly dropped and before he had the opportunity to get back into the team he got injured for some time.

And why not invest into another player? Simple. Luiz is far closer to the complete article than someone like Zouma who would need a lot more time.

Luiz was about to explode into the complete article. Had a great end to last season, was absolutely brilliant in the Confederations Cup, truly world class (I still think his goal line clearance won the game for Brazil) and was set to affirm his status as a top class defender this season but obviously due to injuries and lack of form he's not hit that sort of form yet and I don't think it's just an individual problem.

A lot of players in our team are under performing right about now. It's more to do with the way the team is set up. I don't think Mourinho is getting the best out of our players at all - yes Jose is missing some tools but it doesn't excuse the inconsistency almost the whole team have shown this season.

How is Luiz complete? I dont care if my CBs can do jogo bonita, I want my CBs like JT use to be or Kompany...

Not a person like Luiz that has a tendency do mess up...

How does a goal line clearance make you world class? Spain was like dead at the confed cup.... When they got to the final, their main members were all (mostly) out of form...

It's blind fans that think their players are world class...

Same as Liverpool with Coutinho, etc...

Man UNited with their players...

Also, Barca doesnt aim for WC defenders, they aim for guys who are good with the ball and can play somewhat good defense... Thats why Mascherano and song play cb.....

[The Skipper 20,593]

I once indulged in a bit of 'Niall Quinn's Disco Pants'.....probably should re-phrase that.

He's 26 and we're still talking about being close to the finished article. Personally I think he's still making the same mistakes he did 2 and a half years ago.

So you're basically saying that all players peak at the age of 26?

Really? I think he could've and he simply hasn't.

I agree with you that he hasn't - but you're writing him off too soon. IMO he's not really been given a consistent run in the side, especially because of injuries - and that seems to be the main reason he's regressed this season. He didn't have a proper pre season and that has clearly effected how his season has started.

The thing is I don't really care about his form. It's been good and it's been bad, but ultimately I think his problems are all mental. Top players have a certain mentality and I just don't see it in him. I don't think it's something he's going to suddenly develop and I'll be the first to say he's one of the most technically gifted defenders around, but there's something missing.

Bottling the challenge up at Newcastle and the entire performance against Cardiff just confirmed my views.

Fair enough if you think so but I like to be more optimistic in regards to Luiz. He has all the tools and like you said he hasn't been there mentally this season, but as I said before, there are a lot of external factors that has effected him this season i.e. having practically no pre season, injuries, the whole team not performing consistently in general etc.

IMO he just needs to get back to full match fitness and has to be given an extended run of games before I'll change my mind about him.

[The Skipper 20,593]

How is Luiz complete? I dont care if my CBs can do jogo bonita, I want my CBs like JT use to be or Kompany...

Funny thing is Kompany used to be exactly like Luiz a few years back but he's put it behind him and is now a bonafide elite defender.

Not a person like Luiz that has a tendency do mess up...

How does a goal line clearance make you world class? Spain was like dead at the confed cup.... When they got to the final, their main members were all (mostly) out of form...

I didn't say that that goal line clearance made him a world class defender. He did have a lot of excellent games throughout the whole tournament though.

I also didn't even say that Luiz is a bonafide world class defender either (yet) - I said that this season was the time he would establish himself as such but obviously due to not having a decent pre season, injuries, form issues etc. it hasn't been the case.

[The only place to be 11,313]

So you're basically saying that all players peak at the age of 26?

No, but they should start growing up by that age. Look at Kompany and Terry.

I agree with you that he hasn't - but you're writing him off too soon.

Fair enough....but I've heard for a while now.

Fair enough if you think so but I like to be more optimistic in regards to Luiz. He has all the tools and like you said he hasn't been there mentally this season, but as I said before, there are a lot of external factors that has effected him this season i.e. having practically no pre season, injuries, the whole team not performing consistently in general etc.

IMO he just needs to get back to full match fitness and has to be given an extended run of games before I'll change my mind about him.

I really hope you're right but I'm just not that optimistic and I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by January, although it's unlikely.

[xPetrCechx 13,548]

On another note, any non-City fan or God forbid, girl, who sings the ya ya Toure song needs to reassess their life.

It's a funny song.

[edetarod 2,155]

City will probably beat our goal record

[Roquila 1,335]

Everybody here seems to love every top5 team but Chelsea...