The English Football Thread

[Barbara 15,149]

I thought this should bring some insight about Arsenal (this thread seriously needs this before someone gives the symbolic title to them).
United made serious progress this season and improved 10 points from the corresponding fixtures last season... I said early in the first two weeks or so of the season that van Gaal would take a while, but he would succeed in making them look like a team. I don't get why people are surprised by it. But my main point here isn't about United (after last season there was only room for improvement, as they were laughable). My main point is about Arsenal. I don't get the praise and sudden fear. Arsenal aren't like that every single year? They either take off as soon as the season begins and then starts to fade or they regroup at the second part when the 4th place title is under threat. I must admit they took it farther and now are fighting for second place, fact remains they're nowhere close to title contenders yet. If they prove to able to physically endure the high pressing throughout a whole season - something they added around December - maybe they'll stand a chance, until then, they're experimenting imo.
Comparing the corresponding fixtures from last season, believe or not, they're 2 points worse rather than better, so it just proves the same: Arsenal is the same old Arsenal. They may win their last 6 games, they may end second place, but I swear I don't see anything new except a less wild approach in bigger matches by Wenger.



I'm not taking away from Arsenal's current form, but I see nothing new from them. They have good sprints of form every season and that won them one FA title (and may win another) in 10 years. That's about it. I need to see a lot more improvement in their mentality and even the physicality of their game to honestly take them as serious title contenders next season.
But as the fashionable thing around here these days is praise our rivals and shit our team and manager (I even read in the Mourinho thread just now - reason why I left the place in a run, not believing I read someone suggesting we needed a coach in our staff like Pellegrino), Arsenal is the best thing since sliced bread and United is the new Bayern from 2 years ago. Oh, and we're the shit we normally are.




(this was supposed to be in the Mourinho or Run in threads, but after being a couple of minutes in the Mourinho thread I don't dare to stay around, so I'll just continue it here)
I miss the intelligent discussions - can't keep away completely - and I hope to have a nice one on this. I'm still not prepared mentally (just like Arsenal aren't) to really post in the Mourinho thread. That place is pathetic. People forget how this team attacked the first half of the season. Then shit happened and Mourinho was on pragmatic mode immediately. With the players he has at his squad, I'm 110% behind his pragmatic approach - even when I disagree about a few things. we don't have winners in the team yet except some from the old guard, but things may change now with how we've been playing.

I'm hopeful that they'll be adding a lot of baggage in that department. I feel like we've been scrapping results like champions do when they don't play well. That's the story of United ever since I watch the league - which isn't much, roughly 12 years. It doesn't make a team less deserving, smaller or worse. Sometimes in football that's just how it works. We've seen very few teams throughout the years keeping the level we played the first half throughout the whole season. Of course, many of them didn't fall as deep as we did in terms of performance, but at this point the most important thing is scrapping those results the best we can because this team, these players and this manager proved earlier in the season that they have all the tools to make it last longer. This is a learning place, a growing place, a maturing place we're now in terms of team experience and quality. We'll come out stronger and will be even stronger next season.

A lot of stick is given to Oscar and previously to him to Fabregas, but nearly the whole team stopped playing football ever since the new year. Surely they're tired (I suppose) and Mourinho could have rotated a bit more - but fact remains the same group that was killing it before aren't anymore. Cesc is only now regaining his best football after that Terry injury (although he was very bad today, but very good and ascending the last 2-3 matches). Oscar is terrible, but Matic is also much worse now and Terry had a really shaky period recently. Azpili had had ups and downs in recent months, Ivanovic despite the attacking moments of brilliance has been worse defensively too, Costa has been fighting injuries and bans as we know he's the kind of player that needs matches under his belt to be on his best form. So while Mourinho could try a few things (and I blame him, the board or whoever for letting Schurrle, and even Salah go in the summer window because we don't have ANYONE to try new things), is asking him to make a miracle if the players' form dropped a lot in general. Even Courtois is in worse form recently than he was the first half of the season. Some of those players are picking up form again such as Fabregas, but it must be said the moment both pivot players started struggling our slow and not that solid defense got exposed and we were caught. We should have better replacements for both Cesc and Matic. Willian improved while Eden got even better and Oscar went on his usual second half of the season stroll in the park performance. But when his replacement is Ramires or an useless Cuadrado, what else can Mourinho do? He improved us today when he came in, but seriously, we had Ramires in the wing, improving that isn't that hard. Still not enough (I actually agree with Mourinho that he hasn't been good enough as of lately, but unlike most here I don't downgrade how well he played the first half of the season). There's only so much Mourinho can do, but I'm happy with how the team have been scrapping those results that give you the title at the end.

My biggest problem with many people's opinions here continue to be how they unfairly criticize Mourinho (who deserves his fair share of criticism, just not to the extent some take it). And they even contradict themselves...The same people that blame Mourinho saying he isn't bold and attacking oriented enough are the same people saying his biggest fault was not rotating the squad enough. But we were the best attacking team of the league when it started and for a few months... why should he change? Do people stop to think why he changed? We were conceding too many goals at first, but then we weren't anymore and continued to dominate teams, then we stopped playing well altogether. Do you honestly believe he told the players to stop playing well? He insisted because the changes he made didn't bring impact and every team needs stability. We don't have players good enough in the bench as of now (except Luís and Zouma) and the fact that Schurrle was sidelined for illness for too long affected his form (still shouldn't have been sold, although we don't know if he wanted to leave or not). Mourinho was somehow a victim of a short squad with a few key-players getting injured (Costa, Fabregas) ever since the new year. It was downhill from there, but he coped, the team coped and we're evolving because this team didn't scrap results, this team didn't get last-15-minutes goals to seal a victory, but people clearly (and some I'm sure purposefully) ignore this. We are playing bad... but we're still winning and we're 7 points clear and one game in hand with only 6 games to go (for our rivals). Count your blessings and tone down the criticism because we DID evolve this season...

[Blue Armour 4,165]

And it only took him what? 6 months. He's not winning big matches by parking the bus either.

Tbh, I don't think Mourinho would have been afforded the luxury of having the kind of results United had in those 6 months to implement "his philosophy"

[Laylabelle 9,296]

Arsenal havent finished as high as second in 10 years or so so can understand the hype.To go on a run like this isnt like them at this stage usually its top 4 smash and grab.Next season all starts again so who knows but still a huge boost espically if they push us.If we'd drawn today and against Hull then be a slightly more ahhh story but so far...

[unitedkingpin 21]

I think people get a bit carried away with the form United are in right now. I dont think their football is "beautiful" or dominant enough just yet, if they look like that next season i dont think its a PL winner team.. what im saying is that they're playing well and Van Gaal did established his system, they are in the right direction, but still needs more imo, more big signings and better attacking game.

And yes (before someone jumps of his chair), we are playing poorly the last few months, and we do need to look a lot better next season, but we're still getting results because of the quality we have and some little spells of good football we create during the game (dont think United can trust those things when they play poorly, not enough top class players in their line up), and our preformences in the first half of our season were better than how United or Arsenal perform right now.

And a little reminder, United are playing this way for only 4 GAMES. March 9 they lost 1-2 to Arsenal in the fa cup and looked bad. Arsenal for me are more like the real deal for now, playing well for about two months, they are the ones who play the beautiful football and dominate matches for a long time now.

Gosh....when will people realise its not about world class players......united had about 100m worth of skills on the bench today!!!! The system>individual players and yes united will get better next season as the philosophy is only about 80% complete...

[unitedkingpin 21]

Gosh....when will people realise its not about world class players......united had about 100m worth of skills on the bench today!!!! The system>individual players and yes united will get better next season as the philosophy is only about 80% complete...

Oh...and I forgot to add, the team that started vs city is basically last season's team bar Herrera and blind.....

[hamad138 190]

Im worried about united, if they buy hummels gundogan pogba, they will be too big threat

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Gosh....when will people realise its not about world class players......united had about 100m worth of skills on the bench today!!!! The system>individual players and yes united will get better next season as the philosophy is only about 80% complete...

Its not about world class players for 4 games (nubmer of games the philosophy is on 80%, like you claim) , but for a full season? i doubt you can keep going like that for a full season and call yourself a contender.

[unitedkingpin 21]

Its not about world class players for 4 games (nubmer of games the philosophy is on 80%, like you claim) , but for a full season? i doubt you can keep going like that for a full season and call yourself a contender.

No...u didn't get me. At the beginning, it was about shoehorning all the best players but it left united adrift of good teams like Chelsea, city, sotton etc.....lately, a call to bench underperforming players has been made and we have reaped the benefit. Personally I didn't imagine di maria as a squad player but he is Ashley's back up now!! Its clear as daylight that its not about signing mega millions worth of players but playing a system to get the best of the players available.....I insist that the team>individual players....that said, united has the best record vs the top 6 and the highest points from October to date.....progress!

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

I thought this should bring some insight about Arsenal (this thread seriously needs this before someone gives the symbolic title to them).

United made serious progress this season and improved 10 points from the corresponding fixtures last season... I said early in the first two weeks or so of the season that van Gaal would take a while, but he would succeed in making them look like a team. I don't get why people are surprised by it. But my main point here isn't about United (after last season there was only room for improvement, as they were laughable). My main point is about Arsenal. I don't get the praise and sudden fear. Arsenal aren't like that every single year? They either take off as soon as the season begins and then starts to fade or they regroup at the second part when the 4th place title is under threat. I must admit they took it farther and now are fighting for second place, fact remains they're nowhere close to title contenders yet. If they prove to able to physically endure the high pressing throughout a whole season - something they added around December - maybe they'll stand a chance, until then, they're experimenting imo.

Comparing the corresponding fixtures from last season, believe or not, they're 2 points worse rather than better, so it just proves the same: Arsenal is the same old Arsenal. They may win their last 6 games, they may end second place, but I swear I don't see anything new except a less wild approach in bigger matches by Wenger.

I'm not taking away from Arsenal's current form, but I see nothing new from them. They have good sprints of form every season and that won them one FA title (and may win another) in 10 years. That's about it. I need to see a lot more improvement in their mentality and even the physicality of their game to honestly take them as serious title contenders next season.

But as the fashionable thing around here these days is praise our rivals and shit our team and manager (I even read in the Mourinho thread just now - reason why I left the place in a run, not believing I read someone suggesting we needed a coach in our staff like Pellegrino), Arsenal is the best thing since sliced bread and United is the new Bayern from 2 years ago. Oh, and we're the shit we normally are.

(this was supposed to be in the Mourinho or Run in threads, but after being a couple of minutes in the Mourinho thread I don't dare to stay around, so I'll just continue it here)

I miss the intelligent discussions - can't keep away completely - and I hope to have a nice one on this. I'm still not prepared mentally (just like Arsenal aren't) to really post in the Mourinho thread. That place is pathetic. People forget how this team attacked the first half of the season. Then shit happened and Mourinho was on pragmatic mode immediately. With the players he has at his squad, I'm 110% behind his pragmatic approach - even when I disagree about a few things. we don't have winners in the team yet except some from the old guard, but things may change now with how we've been playing.

I'm hopeful that they'll be adding a lot of baggage in that department. I feel like we've been scrapping results like champions do when they don't play well. That's the story of United ever since I watch the league - which isn't much, roughly 12 years. It doesn't make a team less deserving, smaller or worse. Sometimes in football that's just how it works. We've seen very few teams throughout the years keeping the level we played the first half throughout the whole season. Of course, many of them didn't fall as deep as we did in terms of performance, but at this point the most important thing is scrapping those results the best we can because this team, these players and this manager proved earlier in the season that they have all the tools to make it last longer. This is a learning place, a growing place, a maturing place we're now in terms of team experience and quality. We'll come out stronger and will be even stronger next season.

A lot of stick is given to Oscar and previously to him to Fabregas, but nearly the whole team stopped playing football ever since the new year. Surely they're tired (I suppose) and Mourinho could have rotated a bit more - but fact remains the same group that was killing it before aren't anymore. Cesc is only now regaining his best football after that Terry injury (although he was very bad today, but very good and ascending the last 2-3 matches). Oscar is terrible, but Matic is also much worse now and Terry had a really shaky period recently. Azpili had had ups and downs in recent months, Ivanovic despite the attacking moments of brilliance has been worse defensively too, Costa has been fighting injuries and bans as we know he's the kind of player that needs matches under his belt to be on his best form. So while Mourinho could try a few things (and I blame him, the board or whoever for letting Schurrle, and even Salah go in the summer window because we don't have ANYONE to try new things), is asking him to make a miracle if the players' form dropped a lot in general. Even Courtois is in worse form recently than he was the first half of the season. Some of those players are picking up form again such as Fabregas, but it must be said the moment both pivot players started struggling our slow and not that solid defense got exposed and we were caught. We should have better replacements for both Cesc and Matic. Willian improved while Eden got even better and Oscar went on his usual second half of the season stroll in the park performance. But when his replacement is Ramires or an useless Cuadrado, what else can Mourinho do? He improved us today when he came in, but seriously, we had Ramires in the wing, improving that isn't that hard. Still not enough (I actually agree with Mourinho that he hasn't been good enough as of lately, but unlike most here I don't downgrade how well he played the first half of the season). There's only so much Mourinho can do, but I'm happy with how the team have been scrapping those results that give you the title at the end.

My biggest problem with many people's opinions here continue to be how they unfairly criticize Mourinho (who deserves his fair share of criticism, just not to the extent some take it). And they even contradict themselves...The same people that blame Mourinho saying he isn't bold and attacking oriented enough are the same people saying his biggest fault was not rotating the squad enough. But we were the best attacking team of the league when it started and for a few months... why should he change? Do people stop to think why he changed? We were conceding too many goals at first, but then we weren't anymore and continued to dominate teams, then we stopped playing well altogether. Do you honestly believe he told the players to stop playing well? He insisted because the changes he made didn't bring impact and every team needs stability. We don't have players good enough in the bench as of now (except Luís and Zouma) and the fact that Schurrle was sidelined for illness for too long affected his form (still shouldn't have been sold, although we don't know if he wanted to leave or not). Mourinho was somehow a victim of a short squad with a few key-players getting injured (Costa, Fabregas) ever since the new year. It was downhill from there, but he coped, the team coped and we're evolving because this team didn't scrap results, this team didn't get last-15-minutes goals to seal a victory, but people clearly (and some I'm sure purposefully) ignore this. We are playing bad... but we're still winning and we're 7 points clear and one game in hand with only 6 games to go (for our rivals). Count your blessings and tone down the criticism because we DID evolve this season...

Yes, yes, yes. Mou has clearly seen that the players are too tired to perform like they did before.

The stark thing I noticed though, is when we added Oscar against QPR he completely rebalanced the team in a fashion that we instantly passed better. I elaborated on this more in the Oscar thread. The general gist of the post though is that we see Oscar is ineffective in offence (hence frustrating fans) as he covers for Fabregas' lack of defensive ability. We accept this in Ramires as he is classified as a CM rather than a CAM, while due to Oscar's official #10 denomination he is ridiculed for not producing the same form he puts on for Brazil. There is no reason he cannot play as a CM, however. He's probably still stronger than Ramires is and he has the vision Fabregas offers. I fail to remember the match but he played in a 4-3-3 (DM-2CM) once. He performed well next to Fabregas, and I'd like to see him there again. I just feel maybe we should change our perspective on how we actually view him as a player.

Another thing I noticed is that I think Jose has underestimated how short injuries would leave him, and also made the wrong choice in keeping x players and buying y players.

For example, for the role he plays, we might as well have cashed in on Ramires, kept Lamps, and used him in the same role as he is used for City, as Ramires has demonstrated when he's pressured and his ball control lets him down. Salah should not have been sold(effectively;there is no reason Fiorentina will not use their buy option) although maybe some might argue he should never have been brought. The sale of Schurrle means there is no cover for Hazard in case of injury. Cuadrado should have been a summer buy, for obvious reasons. And he should have brought in a direct replacement for David Luiz.

I also believe Cesc's slum was due to being rushed back from injury rather than "just a pattern". I do feel that when Oscar is off form or otherwise not fulfilling his designated role that Willian should be played in the middle. He looks great there when he plays, maybe putting Oscar on the wing!

Personally though, we need a domestic cup squad really. Otherwise in the first half we are run ragged. There's no shame in putting some youth players in to do a shift. I'd like to see this:

-2nd keeper-/Blackman

Christensen/Iva Zouma Kalas Ake/Luis/Azpi (or one of Terry and Cahill/Varane, for leadership)

Cesc/RLC Ake/Mikel

Cuadrado Oscar Kakuta

-2nd striker-

you know, or other out of rotation players.

I feel a little sorry for Oscar though. He doesn't get a shummer break until like 2018 or some bull. Maybe he might do well (long with Cescy) having a midseason holiday.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

ANd Liverpool also when we looked at them last season... look at Liverpool today.

The strange thing about United it's how they couldn't fight for any of the 2 last Leagues with a net spending of almost 300M£.

Liverpool sold their best player Suarez, which was half of their team actualy. Plus inform Gerrard who is shit this season.

I doubt Arsenal or United will sell any of their players in summer, infact they will probably buy a few.

However, arsenal is arsenal and IMO they wont be THAT much of a threat, at least not next season yet, but United could be realy dangerous IF they actualy spend money on key players they need to get.

Also, we played absolutely shit football with very good results (considering how poor we played) in 2015, but if we played like that whole season, we wouldnt be first right now. We won the league with great form from august-november IMO.

You know, football is round and what goes around, comes around. Im 99% sure Arsenal will get their share of success eventualy, while United has enough money to buy success too.

Proper management is key, remember Bayern in 2008 when they couldnt even get into CL, but look how they improved in just few years.

If we want to stay on top next year, we will have to improve, no doubt about that and everyone knows it. We aint that force yet we were under Lamps, Drogba etc.

[Kezza 1,965]

Whenever I hear an interview from LVG I automatically think Goldmember is talking..

[Special Juan 27,103]

City getting absolute pelters in the media.....Pellegrino is being taken to the chambers soon.

[Reddish-Blue 2,223]

City getting absolute pelters in the media.....Pellegrino is being taken to the chambers soon.

Can't wait to see who City's new manager will be!

[Special Juan 27,103]

Can't wait to see who City's new manager will be!

I think there biggest transfer in the summer will be on one manager and for me that will be all out for Simeone.

[chrismada9 1,948]

You sure are a big jontron fan

Yup! Sure am!

[DYC. 7,542]

Arsenal are a good team. Their problem is the fitness of their squad. When they're fit, they perform well and get the results. But that's never the case over the course of a season.

[chrismada9 1,948]

Arsenal are a good team. Their problem is the fitness of their squad. When they're fit, they perform well and get the results. But that's never the case over the course of a season.

If Arsenal hadn't have bought Sanchez they wouldn't be second right now.. Sanchez is like van Persie, he carries the entire team on his back!

[DYC. 7,542]

If Arsenal hadn't have bought Sanchez they wouldn't be second right now.. Sanchez is like van Persie, he carries the entire team on his back!

Of course. But that's like saying, Chelsea wouldn't be on top without Hazard. That's what key players are for. They have a good team overall. Koscielny, Cazorla, Ozil, Giroud have all been key. Even Coquelin, adding the steel and bite they've been lacking for so long. I still don't understand how that happened. He was a Championship player.

But this is typical Arsenal though. To perform when they're ruled out. No pressure. I want to see them perform from the start, saying they'll go for the title. But again, they're never fit over a full season, so it's hard to rate their true quality.