The English Football Thread

[LAM09 6,824]

If you look at the legal basis for why FIFA said no deferral, then you will see why I have been so pessimistic from the beginning, before the bans themselves were even officially announced. Barca and RM got deferrals becuase the laws were new, but now they are not. That is exactly what FIFA has now stated twice, that we knew the rules, that they were in place for years now, and we still chose to break them. 

 

As far as I know, we can freeze the ban whilst the CAS appealing is happening. I don't know whether CAS can just throw our appeal out off the grounds you mentioned or whether FIFA can do something to prevent that themselves.

 

I guess the reports of us delaying our appealing are for good reason.

[kc_blue 265]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

If you look at the legal basis for why FIFA said no deferral, then you will see why I have been so pessimistic from the beginning, before the bans themselves were even officially announced. Barca and RM got deferrals because the laws were new, but now they are not. That is exactly what FIFA has now stated twice, that we knew the rules, that they were in place for years now, and we still chose to break them. 

Excuse my ignorance but one quick question.  I was under the impression that the infractions that we have been banned for occurred several years back.  It's all fine and good saying that the laws have been in place for years now, but if they were new when the infractions incurred, what's the difference?  Maybe I'm misinformed on the situation.

[Vesper 29,144]

22 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

 

As far as I know, we can freeze the ban whilst the CAS appealing is happening. I don't know whether CAS can just throw our appeal out off the grounds you mentioned or whether FIFA can do something to prevent that themselves.

 

I guess the reports of us delaying our appealing are for good reason.

I think we might just take our medicine now and not try and push it. I see zero reason why CAS would overturn the bans, and it is not automatic they freeze it during appeals, especially after FIFA has twice said no deferral. The club may also be think that even if CAS does freeze it, it might leave so little time to do much this summer, and then we are basically fucked until summer 2021.

[Vesper 29,144]

1 minute ago, kc_blue said:

Excuse my ignorance but one quick question.  I was under the impression that the infractions that we have been banned for occurred several years back.  It's all fine and good saying that the laws have been in place for years now, but if they were new when the infractions incurred, what's the difference?  Maybe I'm misinformed on the situation.

They happened years after the Barca and RM ones. The rules were already in place.

[kc_blue 265]

Thanks for clarifying that point for me.

[Vesper 29,144]

3 minutes ago, kc_blue said:

Thanks for clarifying that point for me.

yw!

[LAM09 6,824]

I think we might just take our medicine now and not try and push it. I see zero reason why CAS would overturn the bans, and it is not automatic they freeze it during appeals, especially after FIFA has twice said no deferral. The club may also be think that even if CAS does freeze it, it might leave so little time to do much this summer, and then we are basically fucked until summer 2021.

The fact we have such a large group out on loan might actually be a plus for once.

[kc_blue 265]

In that case it looks like it's time to pay the piper.  It's unfortunate that this has happened at a time when we aren't really in a position to handle it, but that's at the foot of the board and their policies over the past several years.

[Vesper 29,144]

Just now, LAM09 said:

9 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I think we might just take our medicine now and not try and push it. I see zero reason why CAS would overturn the bans, and it is not automatic they freeze it during appeals, especially after FIFA has twice said no deferral. The club may also be think that even if CAS does freeze it, it might leave so little time to do much this summer, and then we are basically fucked until summer 2021.

The fact we have such a large group out on loan might actually be a plus for once.

yes, we have a tonne of POTENTIALLY good players out on loan (or proven starters, granted non Chels starters)

the list is long (granted some of these, like Morata are no goes)

bold are my wishes for recall (thsi year or surely next)

 

England    CB    Jake Clarke-Salter (to Vitesse until 30 June 2019) (turns 22 in September, we need to decide what to do with him, he was great the last 2/3rds of the year at Vitesse)

England    CB    Fikayo Tomori (to Derby County until 30 June 2019)  (turns 22 in December, we need to decide what to do with him as well, I think he really good)

France    CB    Kurt Zouma (to Everton until 30 June 2019)

Czech Republic    CB    Tomáš Kalas (to Bristol City until 30 June 2019) (needs to be sold)

 

England    LB    Jay Dasilva (to Bristol City until 30 June 2019)

Ghana    LB    Baba Rahman (to Reims until 30 June 2019) (needs to be sold, a bust)

Brazil       LB /LMF   Kenedy (to Newcastle United until 30 June 2019) (needs to be sold)

England    RB    Reece James

Nigeria      RB    Ola Aina (to Torino until 30 June 2019) (Torino wants to buy him perm)

England    RB    Dujon Sterling (to Coventry City until 30 June 2019) (damn shame he is not a LB)
 

England    DMF    Trevoh Chalobah

France    DMF/CMF   Tiémoué Bakayoko (to Milan until 30 June 2019)

 

Croatia    CMF   Mario Pašalić (to Atalanta until 30 June 2019)

Netherlands    CMF   Marco van Ginkel (needs to be sold if healthy)

 

England   AMF    Mason Mount (to Derby County until 30 June 2019) (RLC being gone for probably all of next year means we may have to recall him)

Belgium   AMF/LW    Charly Musonda (to Vitesse until 30 June 2019) (needs to sold, a bust)

 

Nigeria    RMF/RW    Victor Moses (to Fenerbahçe until 30 June 2020) (may have to be recalled due to lack of winger depth, grrrr)

England    CF    Tammy Abraham (to Aston Villa until 30 June 2019)

Belgium    CF    Michy Batshuayi (to Crystal Palace until 30 June 2019)

Spain    CF    Álvaro Morata (to Atlético Madrid until 30 June 2020) (will surely be sold perm now that Griezmann is leaving AM)

 

we have some reserve team players with high potential too

 

CB Marc Guehi

LB Juan Familia-Castillo (more upside than Jay Dasilva), hopefully in a couple years can start to at least be our backup LB

CMF  Billy Gilmour (superb young little MF wizard so far at his level)

CF     Daishawn Redan

 

 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

So we are more than likely fucked either way, at least give us the summer to build, then take the spanking. RA ought to react to this.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

48 hours on after the most one sided cup final ever it was English football in a nutshell. Small provincial club being slaughtered by a mega minted one. English football is going to go the way of Scottish football two clubs dominating the rest and it sticks in the craw to say it but Klopp and Liverpool have done it without spending huge amounts and bringing young players through. 

The irony is not lost on me being a Chelsea fan moaning about Man City but that treble could happen countless times because their only going to get stronger while the rest apart from Liverpool will flounder. Football has lost it's soul it's turning into American Football it's catered for a TV audience while the stadiums are corporate wankholes that have about as much atmosphere as a Dignitas waiting room.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

48 hours on after the most one sided cup final ever it was English football in a nutshell. Small provincial club being slaughtered by a mega minted one. English football is going to go the way of Scottish football two clubs dominating the rest and it sticks in the craw to say it but Klopp and Liverpool have done it without spending huge amounts and bringing young players through. 

The irony is not lost on me being a Chelsea fan moaning about Man City but that treble could happen countless times because their only going to get stronger while the rest apart from Liverpool will flounder. Football has lost it's soul it's turning into American Football it's catered for a TV audience while the stadiums are corporate wankholes that have about as much atmosphere as a Dignitas waiting room.

The huge Money coming in will at some point end EPL......then you have corrupt FA and refs writing the script. Lets see if shitty gets punished by FA and UEFA.

[Vesper 29,144]

Premier League clubs urged to come clean over European Super League

Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City have all been accused of holding secret talks with other European clubs

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-clubs-urged-come-16177152

Super powers have been told to come clean on their involvement on a European Super League which is putting club football in serious “danger.”

Chelsea , Arsenal , Liverpool , Manchester United and Manchester City have been accused of holding secret talks with other European clubs to try and form a lucrative breakaway.

The Premier League clubs have all tried to distance themselves from radical new proposals which would see European games played at weekends, become almost a closed shop and have a potentially devastating effect on domestic leagues.

But La Liga president Javier Tebas, one of the most powerful and outspoken men in European football, insists the clubs still want to press ahead and it is now up to the leagues and UEFA to make sure it does not happen.

snip

[communicate 2,703]

On 5/20/2019 at 3:03 AM, Iggy Doonican said:

 but Klopp and Liverpool have done it without spending huge amounts and bringing young players through. 

 

Youth and not spending? 

Van djik 70 m

Allison 70 m

The only youth player is Trent. 

 

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

54 minutes ago, communicate said:

Youth and not spending? 

Van djik 70 m

Allison 70 m

The only youth player is Trent. 

 

Robertson cost 8m from Hull when he was 23 that's young and cheap to me. 140 million quid for two quality players we've pissed money up the wall on Morata, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, I'm still not convinced with Kepa and Jorginho is woeful that's 250 million quid on shit and average players.

[communicate 2,703]

25 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Robertson cost 8m from Hull when he was 23 that's young and cheap to me. 140 million quid for two quality players we've pissed money up the wall on Morata, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, I'm still not convinced with Kepa and Jorginho is woeful that's 250 million quid on shit and average players.

Playing an epl experienced player that is 23 like Robertson is easy. It is similar to us using ruben. Plus Roberson only competition is Moreno. It is a myth that klopp is playing youth. 

If you want to praise pool in term of their effective spending. Then I agree with you. They have done fantastic job in finding good players. Us not so much. Kepa signing made sense. We tried Allison but he picked pool. Bakayoko also made sense for Conte. Jorginho also make sense. I think by now you should realize how dire our midfield is in term of ball mover. 

[Vesper 29,144]

48 minutes ago, communicate said:

 It is a myth that klopp is playing youth. 

 Joe Gomez (now 21yo) was a starter since he was 20 (3 starting games, the full 90 minutes in games as a 19yo)

Trent Alexander-Arnold (now 20yo) was a starter at 18 (even had one cup game, v spuds, as a 17yo)

sorry, not a myth

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

19 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 Joe Gomez (now 21yo) was a starter since he was 20 (3 starting games, the full 90 minutes in games as a 19yo)

Trent Alexander-Arnold (now 20yo) was a starter at 18 (even had one cup game, v spuds, as a 17yo)

sorry, not a myth

The myth is Klopp thought these youngsters were good enough to play ahead of starters. 

Gomez got his chance because Matip and Lovern were injured for an extensive period

TAA got his chance when Clyne was injured for an extensive period. 

Both of which developed and proved themselves for Klopp to realise their potential.