The Doubters

[BomTrett 50]

Some good valid points being made here. I hate the idea that he should be sacked because of this season, and the lack of silverware. I hate that thought with any manager brought into this club theres that sort of target on their head should they not win silverware. Far enough if its a couple of seasons without success and the team is playing poorly, but Carlo came to Chelsea last year and won the double, and the community shield to add to that. Amazing feat from a manager who had never managed in england before. Incredible from Carlo, and a manager we finally thought would be at chelsea for years. And yet we come to this point where people doubt him and think he should be out!

In all honesty the TEAM have played poor this season, and thats why Chelsea have performed below par. Essien, Drogba, Anelka, Malouda, Lampard.. the list goes on, these key players have under-performed and as a result, we havent been brilliant. The summer will be a perfect time for things to be rethought, who to bring in/ who to play. Also to ask questions, best formation, key roles in the team. It shouldnt be a time for new manager speculation.

In Carlo we trust... pains me to see people doubting him.

[Ollie 4,400]

These Carlo threads are quite annoying because we all know who he is and what he won with us last season. Last season, Man Utd were in a transition, selling Ronaldo and Tevez, 2 of their 3 best players, we ought to have won the league really and even then we lost 6 games and won it by just a point. I was so happy at the end of the season tho, i loved Carlo because he seemed to have got the best out of his players in the last 7-8 games and we completely battered teams and won the double and i was buzzing for the next season because i thought Carlo had it sorted.

Stoke 7-0

Villa 7-1

Sunderland 7-2

Portsmouth 5-0

Wigan 8-0

Blackburn 5-0

By the end of last season, we were confident and we were playing the best football i had ever seen from a chelsea team. 103 league goals, free flowing, expansive. Everyone was on top of their game.

Start of the 2010-11 season:

WBA 6-0

Wigan 6-0

Blackpool 4-0

On October 30th, we beat Blackburn 2-1 to be 5 points clear in the premiership and have our best start to a season in 4 years or so, we then beat Spartak Moscow 4-1 and all was rosy. Played 10, won 8, drew 1, lost 1. Can't ask for much more, started as we left off the season before.

Then Ray Wilkins was sacked and the season died, dropped points after dropped points, everyone out of form, the goals dried up, the body language was shit and we just couldn't buy a win. Surely the MANAGER should get the players motivated and not let this happen. bad moment, unlucky whatever, the fact was that we were getting further behind the leaders week by week and out of the race completely. What Ray Wilkins gave the team obviously was a lot better than what Ancellotti gave the team because stats don't lie and you don't lose confidence and form that badly just like that. We weren't just hitting a minor blip, this was a complete collapse from november 7th and january 15th. Something was obviously wrong behind the scenes.

Now who to blame? Roman got rid of Jose when things were perfect. He got rid of Ranieri when things were fucking great, the best for a long time, maybe ever at the time. He got rid of Ray Wilkins after he had worked with Carlo to win us the double and were in amazing form in the current period, last season ended breathtakingly.

Now Carlo needs to prove that he can actually bounce back from this shit season and turn it around. He needs to bring in a number 2 who will work with the players and inspire them, like a Maldini or a Desailly. Someone who will give a buzz around the place. Atm Carlo is working alone and it just isn't working. All the best teams have a great manager and a great number 2, we have a great manager but then there's a void imo.

ALSO... Carlo needs to be braver with his selections and stop playing players out of position (Anelka) and players out of form (Lampard, Malouda, Anelka) and stop making the same pointless changes that never change the game. With 2 NATURAL WINGERS like Young and Bale, we'd be amazing but we don't have natural wingers and we play wingers, i don't get it.

We got knocked out of the 2 Champions League campaigns against 2 teams that had settled teams and everyone knew their role 110%. They were organised and they had belief. Against Inter and especially Man Utd, we showed no belief we could actually get through and not everyone knew their jobs. Also we didn't and still don't know our best XI or our best formation.

Carlo... 2 proper wingers please, a proper number 2 and a settled formation and we'll be laughing.

Edited April 16, 2011 by OllieCFC

[Madmax 9,219]

Top post mate. Very balanced, something rare to see these days.

[Guest Homer2Chelsea]

These Carlo threads are quite annoying because we all know who he is and what he won with us last season. Last season, Man Utd were in a transition, selling Ronaldo and Tevez, 2 of their 3 best players, we ought to have won the league really and even then we lost 6 games and won it by just a point. I was so happy at the end of the season tho, i loved Carlo because he seemed to have got the best out of his players in the last 7-8 games and we completely battered teams and won the double and i was buzzing for the next season because i thought Carlo had it sorted.

Stoke 7-0

Villa 7-1

Sunderland 7-2

Portsmouth 5-0

Wigan 8-0

Blackburn 5-0

By the end of last season, we were confident and we were playing the best football i had ever seen from a chelsea team. 103 league goals, free flowing, expansive. Everyone was on top of their game.

Start of the 2010-11 season:

WBA 6-0

Wigan 6-0

Blackpool 4-0

On October 30th, we beat Blackburn 2-1 to be 5 points clear in the premiership and have our best start to a season in 4 years or so, we then beat Spartak Moscow 4-1 and all was rosy. Played 10, won 8, drew 1, lost 1. Can't ask for much more, started as we left off the season before.

Then Ray Wilkins was sacked and the season died, dropped points after dropped points, everyone out of form, the goals dried up, the body language was shit and we just couldn't buy a win. Surely the MANAGER should get the players motivated and not let this happen. bad moment, unlucky whatever, the fact was that we were getting further behind the leaders week by week and out of the race completely. What Ray Wilkins gave the team obviously was a lot better than what Ancellotti gave the team because stats don't lie and you don't lose confidence and form that badly just like that. We weren't just hitting a minor blip, this was a complete collapse from november 7th and january 15th. Something was obviously wrong behind the scenes.

Now who to blame? Roman got rid of Jose when things were perfect. He got rid of Ranieri when things were fucking great, the best for a long time, maybe ever at the time. He got rid of Ray Wilkins after he had worked with Carlo to win us the double and were in amazing form in the current period, last season ended breathtakingly.

Now Carlo needs to prove that he can actually bounce back from this shit season and turn it around. He needs to bring in a number 2 who will work with the players and inspire them, like a Maldini or a Desailly. Someone who will give a buzz around the place. Atm Carlo is working alone and it just isn't working. All the best teams have a great manager and a great number 2, we have a great manager but then there's a void imo.

ALSO... Carlo needs to be braver with his selections and stop playing players out of position (Anelka) and players out of form (Lampard, Malouda, Anelka) and stop making the same pointless changes that never change the game. With 2 NATURAL WINGERS like Young and Bale, we'd be amazing but we don't have natural wingers and we play wingers, i don't get it.

We got knocked out of the 2 Champions League campaigns against 2 teams that had settled teams and everyone knew their role 110%. They were organised and they had belief. Against Inter and especially Man Utd, we showed no belief we could actually get through and not everyone knew their jobs. Also we didn't and still don't know our best XI or our best formation.

Carlo... 2 proper wingers please, a proper number 2 and a settled formation and we'll be laughing.

Couldn't agree more. People need to realise that neither Guus or Jose are coming back, their both history, that's that.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Good chronological post Ollie. Thing is though that period when Ray was sacked was very strange. I still find it hard to think the departure of one man caused to many problems within the squad in terms of morale, motivation, discipline ect. Things must've gone on behind closed doors that shook the team to the very core. Whether it was a public incident that caused Wilkins' departure or something else, I guess we'll never truly know.

[Tomo 21,681]

Good chronological post Ollie. Thing is though that period when Ray was sacked was very strange. I still find it hard to think the departure of one man caused to many problems within the squad in terms of morale, motivation, discipline ect. Things must've gone on behind closed doors that shook the team to the very core. Whether it was a public incident that caused Wilkins' departure or something else, I guess we'll never truly know.

Very true although i still refuse to believe that Wilkins departure alone caused the slump (dunno if im alone here) but in all honesty that Sunderland thrashing had been coming for weeks and on another day Wolves could have given us it aswell at our ground and if it werent for Cech most probably would have.I think we just hit a extremely freak run of form and if we had luck on our side in that winless run we could have got a fair few points.

Sunderland (H) no complaints, out played out classed.

Birmingham (A) We were good, the Foster show kept us out, on another day we would have out 5 past them, 3 points lost.

Newcastle (A) Kalou scores open goal, 3 points thanks very much, 2 points lost.

Everton (H) we stopped either Baines running at our side or Beckford getting a free header we would have won, 2 points lost by criminally bad defending.

Tottenham (A) Drogba scores the penalty 3 points, 2 points dropped.

Arsenal (A) Dont get me wrong Arsenal deserved the win (kills me to say that) but you have to wonder if they would have had so much space for the goals had Mikel not got crippled and forced off.

Easy to say now but with more luck/better defending/ better finishing another time we could have got 9 extra points in that run. IMO it was just a freak set of results no more no less.

[Kojo 4,676]

What's your point? Mourinho will out-think 499 of 500 managers.

Personally, I feel fucking disgusted by some of the spoilt wankers who call themselves 'Chelsea supporters.' We've had a bad season, man the fuck up and look forward for the start of the next campaign. The people who are even starting to criticise our achievements last year are absolutely laughable - is the Double not good enough for you, should we have won the Quintuple? Spoilt.

I get sick of the fact how people at school say to me, ''you lost to liverpool, when with the players Chelsea have they should be winning 5-0''. Like what the hell?, no team in the world can be expected to win 5-0 every single game, no matter what the players they have or money. A trophyless season, who hasn't had one. Infact this season hasn't been awful, i'm really glad were in the top 4 as it is. Hope we don't slip out of it though, i'm really greatful that we might have a chance to be in the Champions League once again unlike some teams who will miss it. But still doesn't mean we will stay in the top 4, we gotta keep fighting well, i thought us beating West Brom was impossible with the form we are in and they are in. Didn't think it would be Chelsea ending that streak of theres under Hodgson.

The thing is, i have big faith in Carlo, fair enough he isn't the best manager and ill agree he makes terrible decisions and isn't a great tactician at all. But there must be something about him what made us win the double, that just doesn't happen out of nothing, no matter how lucky we were. The only big question is, is Carlo the right person to rotate our team for next season?, will he make us contending for first place in the premier league?. That is a question we don't know, can Carlo surprise me?, i hope he can. I'll do my best to keep the faith he is the right man to do it. But either way can't see Abramovich holding on to him, really can't. But good post Bluelion.

[Swoopz 183]

--------------- Torres --------------

Malouda---Drogba---Ramires

-------Lampard----Essien------

Cole-----Terry----Luiz-----Ivan

4-2-3-1, I like to call this one "The Resolution"

[Peace. 4,352]

Very true although i still refuse to believe that Wilkins departure alone caused the slump (dunno if im alone here) but in all honesty that Sunderland thrashing had been coming for weeks and on another day Wolves could have given us it aswell at our ground and if it werent for Cech most probably would have.I think we just hit a extremely freak run of form and if we had luck on our side in that winless run we could have got a fair few points.

Yep, I do not think either. Before thet Sunderland game, we had already signs of this slump : we did a very poor game against Aston Villa, we were very lucky to win against Blackburn, and of course, we were ridiculous at Liverpool. Beside, i do believe that the starting point of this slump isn't the Sunderland defeat, but the Liverpool one...

Though his departure is certainly one of the causes of our slump, but not the only one... I think the cause is that we had all the problems that a team could have throughout a season at once.

[BLionheart 516]

These Carlo threads are quite annoying because we all know who he is and what he won with us last season. Last season, Man Utd were in a transition, selling Ronaldo and Tevez, 2 of their 3 best players, we ought to have won the league really and even then we lost 6 games and won it by just a point. I was so happy at the end of the season tho, i loved Carlo because he seemed to have got the best out of his players in the last 7-8 games and we completely battered teams and won the double and i was buzzing for the next season because i thought Carlo had it sorted.

Stoke 7-0

Villa 7-1

Sunderland 7-2

Portsmouth 5-0

Wigan 8-0

Blackburn 5-0

By the end of last season, we were confident and we were playing the best football i had ever seen from a chelsea team. 103 league goals, free flowing, expansive. Everyone was on top of their game.

Start of the 2010-11 season:

WBA 6-0

Wigan 6-0

Blackpool 4-0

On October 30th, we beat Blackburn 2-1 to be 5 points clear in the premiership and have our best start to a season in 4 years or so, we then beat Spartak Moscow 4-1 and all was rosy. Played 10, won 8, drew 1, lost 1. Can't ask for much more, started as we left off the season before.

Then Ray Wilkins was sacked and the season died, dropped points after dropped points, everyone out of form, the goals dried up, the body language was shit and we just couldn't buy a win. Surely the MANAGER should get the players motivated and not let this happen. bad moment, unlucky whatever, the fact was that we were getting further behind the leaders week by week and out of the race completely. What Ray Wilkins gave the team obviously was a lot better than what Ancellotti gave the team because stats don't lie and you don't lose confidence and form that badly just like that. We weren't just hitting a minor blip, this was a complete collapse from november 7th and january 15th. Something was obviously wrong behind the scenes.

Now who to blame? Roman got rid of Jose when things were perfect. He got rid of Ranieri when things were fucking great, the best for a long time, maybe ever at the time. He got rid of Ray Wilkins after he had worked with Carlo to win us the double and were in amazing form in the current period, last season ended breathtakingly.

Now Carlo needs to prove that he can actually bounce back from this shit season and turn it around. He needs to bring in a number 2 who will work with the players and inspire them, like a Maldini or a Desailly. Someone who will give a buzz around the place. Atm Carlo is working alone and it just isn't working. All the best teams have a great manager and a great number 2, we have a great manager but then there's a void imo.

ALSO... Carlo needs to be braver with his selections and stop playing players out of position (Anelka) and players out of form (Lampard, Malouda, Anelka) and stop making the same pointless changes that never change the game. With 2 NATURAL WINGERS like Young and Bale, we'd be amazing but we don't have natural wingers and we play wingers, i don't get it.

We got knocked out of the 2 Champions League campaigns against 2 teams that had settled teams and everyone knew their role 110%. They were organised and they had belief. Against Inter and especially Man Utd, we showed no belief we could actually get through and not everyone knew their jobs. Also we didn't and still don't know our best XI or our best formation.

Carlo... 2 proper wingers please, a proper number 2 and a settled formation and we'll be laughing.

a bit contradictory i would say ....

you admit that carlo got the best out of his players in only 7 games last season and 8 games this one , that means 15 games out of 2 seasons in which we have played at least 95 games ... i guess 15 games out of 95 isn't that impressive , is it ??

you point to the fact that a second man , ray wilkins had much greater effect than carlo , that clearly carlo was unable to motivate his playes after wilkins was sacked , well if that is the case then shouldn't we get a manager who is better than his second man ??

i mean wilkins is decent second man but not that great to be better than the main chelsea manager .

in other words , if wilkins is better than carlo . then carlo doesn't deserve to be here .

you noticed that carlo lacked bravery , how can players respect and fearhim ??? yes players must fear their manager and if you have ever played professional football , you would know that .

you have also said that he needs to stop making pointless changes , and you point to his disability to change a game wih his substiutions and his bad reading of the game .

and finally you have pointed very well to the reason why we lost in the UCL to inter and man utd , because "we didn't and still don't know our best XI or our best formation."

"we showed no belief we could actually get through and not everyone knew their jobs"

those were your words and great words i would say .

but after all that you say you would like carlo to stay , you give some strong reasons to sack him and then you say let's give him some time ??????????????????

the only good thing carlo did according to your post was that he got the best out of his players in 15 games and that was out of 95+ games my friend . and please check who were those games against , not all of them was bad teams but most of them .

if i have read your post without this part where you say you would like carlo to stay , i would say you are making some very good points for him to leave .

[Ollie 4,400]

Most of last season we were pretty average, especialy in the middle part but so were Arsenal and Man Utd. We had a flurry at the beginning of last season and the end of last season (first 6 we won and last 9 we won 7 so 15 of the 38 league games) and that's what won us the league. I never said i wanted Carlo to stay but it would be a bit shit sacking him when we won the double the previous season. I want to see some stability though and i wanna see what he's made of in adversity and after a disappointing season. This season, we started great again, won 8 out of the first 10 league games but after that, Ray was sacked and we collapsed immediately

Keep him:

- Double winners 09/10

- Stability

- Let him right his own wrongs, if the same happens next season, let him go

- See if he's capable of sorting things out

Ditch him:

- Isn't making match changing decisions

- Playing out of form players

- Scared to change things

- Playing players out of position

- Seems a bit clueless

Edited April 17, 2011 by OllieCFC

[BLionheart 516]

Most of last season we were pretty average, especialy in the middle part but so were Arsenal and Man Utd. We had a flurry at the beginning of last season and the end of last season (first 6 we won and last 9 we won 7 so 15 of the 38 league games) and that's what won us the league. I never said i wanted Carlo to stay but it would be a bit shit sacking him when we won the double the previous season. I want to see some stability though and i wanna see what he's made of in adversity and after a disappointing season. This season, we started great again, won 8 out of the first 10 league games but after that, Ray was sacked and we collapsed immediately

Keep him:

- Double winners 09/10

- Stability

- Let him right his own wrongs, if the same happens next season, let him go

- See if he's capable of sorting things out

Ditch him:

- Isn't making match changing decisions

- Playing out of form players

- Scared to change things

- Playing players out of position

- Seems a bit clueless

- Always out-played tactically in big games (arsenal is not a big team)

- players don't fear him

- can't get the best out of his players

well if you don't mind , i added a couple of points there for you ,

so your reasons for him to stay again is :

- double winners :

• a manager shouldn't be judged only by results because if that is the case then he would have been sacked months ago , so let's see why has he won the double :
• his system was kinda new to many managers , and they didn't expect that all our game play will come down through our left back and on the left side . but as soon as they figured it out we were fucked up.
• he had no real challenge as man utd had their poorest season in a decade , where they lost their best 2 players and goal scorers without getting any replacement . i mean imagine chelsea having the same squad as last year and losing lamps and Drogba .... we wouldn't be a big power , would we ? but still they were one point behind us .
• we were really lucky because we had no key injuries except for essien , and we didn't have big matches coming in bad times .

-Stability :

• Can we please define stability ? it means continuance without change; permanence..... can you understand what will stability now mean ? it means that we will be stable and we won't change
• in other words our current form and quality will be permanent .
• i would love to have stability but i would like to have that as winners not losers . stable losers are not what we are looking for .
• now we are declining and if we don't stop that decline this season by change , things will be very hard next one .

Let him right his own wrongs, if the same happens next season, let him go:

• that is exactly what happened last season . and he didn't right his own wrongs this one !! we lost to man utd in a very similar way to the one we lost to inter and by the same results 2-1 away , 1-0 home .
• he is the last one to recognize a defect , the diamond last season , the need for 4-4-2 this one , the inability of ferrera to play as a CB . the dropped form of many players .
• if things keep going the same way and carlo "didn't right his wrongs " then next year most probably we will have no seat in the UCL.

- See if he's capable of sorting things out:

• He is not , if he is capable of sorting things out , don't you think he would have done that during the last 7 months .

[eldo 868]

Since when do they need fear him? Carlo isn't like that, neighter are JT and others.. Proper professionals don't have relationship like that.

[BLionheart 516]

Since when do they need fear him? Carlo isn't like that, neighter are JT and others.. Proper professionals don't have relationship like that.

i know carlo isn't like that but JT and others are , and if they aren't then why did they have their best seasons under mourinho a manger who is known for pulling the axe on underperforming players .

and if they are not , then can you please explain the sudden return to form of Drogba and malouda !! that is mainly because they fear the axe at the end of the season , now they are starting to perform because they know they are very close to be sold .

it's not about proper professionals , it's about human beings .

if there is no punishment , you won't always do your best . there has to be a prize to keep you looking on the right track and there has to be a punishment in case you drift from this track .

the problem with carlo is that Drogba and co. know that they will play no matter what , now some are performing again because the summer is nearing and they wouldn't like to be sold .

[Ollie 4,400]

If you change managers every 1-2 years, you don't deserve to win fuck all. The most important thing is faith and i believe in stability. We're not too far off, hell we're only 2 points off 2nd which is hardly a disaster.

Carlo has made mistakes, i wanna see him fix the mistakes because if we don't let him try n sort his problems out, he can't be judged properly. If he gets sacked i wont cry, but i also wont cry if we keep him.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Carlo has made mistakes, i wanna see him fix the mistakes because if we don't let him try n sort his problems out, he can't be judged properly. If he gets sacked i wont cry, but i also wont cry if we keep him.

I can agree with that, especially the last part. I'd be delighted to see Roman's giving Carlo a chance, and it'd be a massive middle finger up to the media who have made his sacking official by their papers!

[Henri 115]

Good post.

And this is my last post here. There are too many plastic fans here that is sickening.

I'll be on rojadirecta where the real fans with a good sense of perspective are.

Peace!

And i`m sickening of your plastic fan bullshit.

[Henri 115]

This thread sums up perfectly why I sometimes feel so sick and tired of argueing on this forum which once was a great place to discuss the issues of our beloved club.

Now it seems to be overcrowded with people who don´t exactly see the complexety of the beautiful game and the dificulties that is behind all the SkySports-modelled Premier League world with all these great goal compilations, their only-surface-scratching match analyses and so on. Get yourself some football knowledge and you realise that most of the reportet stuff is just there to make money with easy minded footie talk. Go out and play football yourself and you know what it´s like to have a drop in confidence and when your team doesn´t perform and you don´t know why.

There acutall human beings involved in the game, i´ve heard.

I am sick of this discussions about Carlo getting the sack, potential transfers who make no sense if you look at the way our club has been doing transfer buisness lately, of all this talking about "selling lists" as if this was Fifa11 Manager or whatnot. Sometimes I get the impression that I hear opposition supporters stateting their oppinion and ripping Chelsea, it´s players and coaching staff into pieces without any sense of what is real and what not in the game.

I miss members like Kez etc. who have always been a profound and reasonable voice in here.

Sorry mates,

rant over.

:goodpost:

You really got some good points. The problem is really that we all think we are some kind of born mini Morinhos by playing football manager, lol, mostly we don`t know shit but we all love

this club. But for god sack let there be space to discuss, and with just a little bit of irony we don`t have to take it that personal, except this word= plastic fan, makes me