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Wayne Rooney

J.F.

By J.F.,
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Peace.

Peace. 4,352

Posted
Posted

I agree with you the very notion of what you call 'volume of play' is quite useful in some situations. This for me why a guy like Mereiles was so useful to us when we had him at the bridge.

However, Speed and pace are not the only things that define your 'volume of play'. You need vision (or tactical knowledge or whatever you would call it) to know where to be at because as you said "you could have a messi in both your feet' and move all around the pitch but you would still be useless if u didn't know where to run. And most of all, not only you need to be mobile you also need stamina to have a big 'volume of play'.

With that in mind I'm sure you can think of a few players who are really fast but don't have such a big 'volume of play'.

That's why I think that losing pace and speed is not always so hurtful for the 'volume of play' (or the all round game) of a player.

If i remember correctly Pirlo was one of the players who ran the most in the Euro's.

Anyway you might be right but I think the point you make although very much sensible is not enough to prove Rooney is on the decline.

Nan, I don't think I said that speed and pace define the volume of play... I neither did say that you had to be fast in order to have a big volume of play. And I know that you have to have stamina ; I even have alluded in this sense (c.f. "the number of minutes you can do that"). But let's start from scratch as it seems to have a general misconception regarding what I intended to say.

Your velocity is a physical tool that permits you to put into purpose your will of mobility. When you are at your physical peak, your physical capacities allow you to produce a certain volume of activity on the pitch. Though, once you physical ability is on the decline (because of your age, your lack of fitness, of injury(ies), etc...), with the same amount of energy given, you can no longer produce the same amount of activity because it will take you more time to go from a point A to a point B (for example) ; and when you repeat this move umpteen times, the difference will be even bigger. Of course, you can lessen the effect of your physical decrease by having a good positional sense and a tactical nous — still, on the long run, it won't matter because you will not manage to compensate all of your physical decline.

And it doesn't matter if you're fast or not. Because your physical peak X will allow you to have a certain amount of activity Y. But when your phisycal capacities decrease and are X-1, the amount of activity you can have will also be, roughly, Y-1. And I repeat myself, not matter how fast you are, a loss of speed/mobility will induce a loss of activity/volume of play.

As for your point on Pirlo, yes he was one of the players who ran the most during the last Euro ; italians were in general the players who ran the more during this competition. That's why we saw an absolutely knackered Pirlo (and italians) during the final of this tournament... When you're getting old, you have to give more energy to achieve the same things that you once did. And because of the thing called "causality", when you give more energy to move yourself around, it means that you have less energy to give in others areas : less energy to focus ; less energy to pass ; less energy to think ; etc... A player like Xavi has still a high activity on the pitch ; though, he has lost the edge and sharpness he had once, his passing game is not as incisive as before. It's because he's on his last leg and that his physical capacities aren't as good as before ; as a consequence, the techincal and "mental" aspect of his game suffer.

Back on Rooney. Yes, it is enough to prove he's on the decline. His physical capacities aren't as good as before. As a consequence, his volume of play is not as good as it was ; his influnce on the game isn't as good as before ; he isn't as imperious as he was ; he needs more space to beat his man ; etc... He is simply no longer the player he was, and unless a shaman voodoo'ed him,

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robsblubot

robsblubot 3,529

Posted
Posted

Are you guys not talking about "work rate"? Or perhaps work rate with and without possession?

Work rate is just as much a mental trait as it is physical. I don't think Rooney has ever shown high work rate, but it has been declining. He even does not look as fit as he once did. Yes, it matters! Dedication during a match won't mean much if the player is physically incapable due to slacking in practice.

I'm really unhappy with our striker situation. The only interesting player -- great prospect but awfully young -- is Lukaku.

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Chelsea?

Chelsea? 892

Posted
Posted

Are you guys not talking about "work rate"? Or perhaps work rate with and without possession?

Work rate is just as much a mental trait as it is physical. I don't think Rooney has ever shown high work rate, but it has been declining. He even does not look as fit as he once did. Yes, it matters! Dedication during a match won't mean much if the player is physically incapable due to slacking in practice.

I'm really unhappy with our striker situation. The only interesting player -- great prospect but awfully young -- is Lukaku.

I want Ba and FT9 out and Rooney in. This would be ideal for our short term and long term. Wayne will be our main striker for 2-3 years, then Lukaku will take the role from him.
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Joelasticot

Joelasticot 111

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Posted

Nan, I don't think I said that speed and pace define the volume of play... I neither did say that you had to be fast in order to have a big volume of play. And I know that you have to have stamina ; I even have alluded in this sense (c.f. "the number of minutes you can do that"). But let's start from scratch as it seems to have a general misconception regarding what I intended to say.

Your velocity is a physical tool that permits you to put into purpose your will of mobility. When you are at your physical peak, your physical capacities allow you to produce a certain volume of activity on the pitch. Though, once you physical ability is on the decline (because of your age, your lack of fitness, of injury(ies), etc...), with the same amount of energy given, you can no longer produce the same amount of activity because it will take you more time to go from a point A to a point B (for example) ; and when you repeat this move umpteen times, the difference will be even bigger. Of course, you can lessen the effect of your physical decrease by having a good positional sense and a tactical nous — still, on the long run, it won't matter because you will not manage to compensate all of your physical decline.

And it doesn't matter if you're fast or not. Because your physical peak X will allow you to have a certain amount of activity Y. But when your phisycal capacities decrease and are X-1, the amount of activity you can have will also be, roughly, Y-1. And I repeat myself, not matter how fast you are, a loss of speed/mobility will induce a loss of activity/volume of play.

As for your point on Pirlo, yes he was one of the players who ran the most during the last Euro ; italians were in general the players who ran the more during this competition. That's why we saw an absolutely knackered Pirlo (and italians) during the final of this tournament... When you're getting old, you have to give more energy to achieve the same things that you once did. And because of the thing called "causality", when you give more energy to move yourself around, it means that you have less energy to give in others areas : less energy to focus ; less energy to pass ; less energy to think ; etc... A player like Xavi has still a high activity on the pitch ; though, he has lost the edge and sharpness he had once, his passing game is not as incisive as before. It's because he's on his last leg and that his physical capacities aren't as good as before ; as a consequence, the techincal and "mental" aspect of his game suffer.

Back on Rooney. Yes, it is enough to prove he's on the decline. His physical capacities aren't as good as before. As a consequence, his volume of play is not as good as it was ; his influnce on the game isn't as good as before ; he isn't as imperious as he was ; he needs more space to beat his man ; etc... He is simply no longer the player he was, and unless a shaman voodoo'ed him,

That's a way better post than your first one. Thank you for that. And I agree with you for the most part.

I'd just say to conclude this discussion that energy and efficiency are two different things that have to be taken into account when defining one player's contribution to a game of football.

Efficiency can be defined by what can the player actually do when using his said energy ie : How hard is he willing to work in training to get as close as possible to max fitness, How does this player times his runs during a game, How much of his ego is that player capable to leave in the dressing room in order to be the instrument of a team effort etc... (I know you know what I mean and this part probably wasn't necessary) .

You seem to think that the increase in efficiency a player can get throughout his career is often outwheighed by his loss in energy. You're probably right, I just want to think that it isn't always the case. That's what i love about football in general : anything can happen wether it be in a player's carreer, in a game, throughout the course of a season etc...

Bottom line is I'm probably deluded but you have to admit what I'm talking about is certainly not completely impossible.

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Alabama

Alabama 1,992

Posted
Posted

only if you guys will realise that chasing Rooney throughout this transfer period is a lost battle...."only if and if" Rooney will request a transfer which seems impossible....i reckon we go for another striker....our striking department is desperately crying for strong reinforcement....Torres abd Ba will not make a strong title contender....Lukaku has the prospect but he is fucking too young....Suarez Alexis and Ibra are very much available.....THE EARLIER THE BETTER....

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