Wayne Rooney

[JayC 171]

I feel we got no chance to sign him anyway unless United buy Cesc who is going to Looney's direct replacement in their setup behind the striker providing the final ball and scoring goals from deeper than RvP.

I don't see Cesc leaving Barca and frankly there are not too many "10" that they can buy instead(interesting their lot throwing around Mata's name to the media)

You've always got a small chance with Roman. Offer us £40 million. That'll do it. I honestly think it would. Ten million more than we paid and close to ten years of service. It would be excellent business. Don't think anybody would pay it though, and Moyes seems keen to keep him for some reason. So in summation you're probably right.

I mean I'm not going to pretend the team wouldn't miss him in some way, 'cause I'd be lying. However, Kagawa and Hernandez would be able to play instead, depending on needs/team tactics. The problem is Shinji is a better (10) and RvP is a better striker. In my opinion anyway. I think Rooney might have twigged...

As for Cesc - that's another Sneijder in the making. Barca aren't stupid, they know Xavi's legs are going. They'll need Fabregas soon enough.

[Las7 951]

You've always got a small chance with Roman. Offer us £40 million. That'll do it. I honestly think it would. Ten million more than we paid and close to ten years of service. It would be excellent business. Don't think anybody would pay it though, and Moyes seems keen to keep him for some reason. So in summation you're probably right.

I mean I'm not going to pretend the team wouldn't miss him in some way, 'cause I'd be lying. However, Kagawa and Hernandez would be able to play instead, depending on needs/team tactics. The problem is Shinji is a better (10) and RvP is a better striker. In my opinion anyway. I think Rooney might have twigged...

As for Cesc - that's another Sneijder in the making. Barca aren't stupid, they know Xavi's legs are going. They'll need Fabregas soon enough.

The way I see it the bid for Cesc, is for United to signal one of it's current players who signed a new contract one and a half years ago for much more than should have been offered that he is not irreplaceable and if he doesn't buckle down and play for the team in his best position they will sign a replacement and sell him. Now Looney has two choses wait for the bid and leave(but United will want a lot of money to sell him to a rival and Barca/Real etc don't seem to be making bids or showing interest) or he buckles down and accepts to keep his ego in check for the time being.

The fact that they insinuated to journalist close to the club that Mata was part of the deal is further information leading to such a conclusion. If they do sell, I expect them to do it after they get a similar in quality player for midfield to make them tick.

[JayC 171]

The way I see it the bid for Cesc, is for United to signal one of it's current players who signed a new contract one and a half years ago for much more than should have been offered that he is not irreplaceable and if he doesn't buckle down and play for the team in his best position they will sign a replacement and sell him. Now Looney has two choses wait for the bid and leave(but United will want a lot of money to sell him to a rival and Barca/Real etc don't seem to be making bids or showing interest) or he buckles down and accepts to keep his ego in check for the time being.

The fact that they insinuated to journalist close to the club that Mata was part of the deal is further information leading to such a conclusion. If they do sell, I expect them to do it after they get a similar in quality player for midfield to make them tick.

Mata and money for Rooney was absurd to be honest. The journalist was an utter moron. Jose would never sanction such stupidity. The story was dead before I read it. They really should assign somebody who at least understands football to write their tripe.

Also, Rooney won't be able to get his ego in check - that is the problem. He knows he isn't the best player at the club anymore.

And Cesc would be signed regardless if the opportunity arose.

[bluesman2610 1,352]

Rooney's actually quite terrible when pressured these days; passing and ball control has been average all season. He definitely requires plenty of space. I can't remember the last time I saw him beat a player... He's also added this 'Hollywood' ball to his game, where he tries to play a pass he's simply not capable of. He's been frustrating to watch, to be honest.

Rooney will want at least assurance of a starting role if he would join though, or he's swapping one problem for another. I'm pretty sure you would find it hard to play both Rooney and Mata. I mean, they're both so similar in what they attempt to do. I've watched Rooney for a long time, and I personally don't see him as a striker. He's a shadow/support striker who drifts and tries to create. If you take his activity away (being involved in play) he becomes sloppy and goes to sleep.

Anyway Mata is superior. I don't know why Jose would want Rooney. Maybe four years ago.... Perhaps Jose sees what I do. I think he desperately needs a new challenge. I'm not sure how Chelsea would offer that though.

I'd be happy to sell though if we got a £35-£40 million offer.

you say you watched him for a long time and when played as a striker 2 seasons ago scored 34 in all competitions.. just because he has the tools to drop deep and collect to start plays does not necessarily make him a"10".. I'm all for your analysis of Rooney but if Jose can see that he would be missing piece to our puzzle to make us serious threat for prem again i'm going to have to go with that..

And watching Rooney of last season in a SS role he still was able to produce in the 26 matches he played in.. we have far better attacking/creative players than United he could only become a beast again working with players like Mata Hazard Oscar and De Bruyne

[bluesman2610 1,352]

Supposedly Benzema was this type of player but it didn't work

Teams would defend deep when we had Drogba up top; teams in Italy would defend deep when Eto'o or Milito were playing for Inter

It doesn't matter if what we have up top is good enough. At United and England I've never felt that's Looney's best position is leading the line - give him something to work off and be able to do his thing. He was playing just fine behind RvP when fit but his ego cannot be matched - threatens to leave club because they lack ambition when they sign a big name player to compete for the spot light throws a hissy fit.

If Jose gets him that's all fine and dandy to me since he seems to really want him but I won't be too excited by this signing I feel that we got a superiour player to play in Looney's best position - Mata

And even when teams did defend deep with Drogba we had most of our scoring coming from our midfield.. Drogba was a Hybrid striker could play in close quarters as well as in behind defenses.. You will be pressed to find another like him-- to your hissy fit point if Mourinho benched Mata or Hazard in an important champions league clash and they were fit I am almost positive they would be upset as well due to the fact that they know their qualities would make a difference in the match...Rooney appears to have lost respect for SAF and that can explain his actions.. If he comes he would def. make our team better and if he doesn't i will still support the team like I always do

[DDA 9,689]

And even when teams did defend deep with Drogba we had most of our scoring coming from our midfield.. Drogba was a Hybrid striker could play in close quarters as well as in behind defenses.. You will be pressed to find another like him-- to your hissy fit point if Mourinho benched Mata or Hazard in an important champions league clash and they were fit I am almost positive they would be upset as well due to the fact that they know their qualities would make a difference in the match...Rooney appears to have lost respect for SAF and that can explain his actions.. If he comes he would def. make our team better and if he doesn't i will still support the team like I always do

I'm sure a lot of people don't actually think the situation through fully before posting crticism.

Why on earth would Mourinho want a striker that isn't good enough anymore for the sum of money that United expect for him??

Has Jose lost his marbles? No, he knows what he is doing and I trust this potential transfer because I too can see that Wayne is still a class player with a lot to offer.

[JayC 171]

you say you watched him for a long time and when played as a striker 2 seasons ago scored 34 in all competitions.. just because he has the tools to drop deep and collect to start plays does not necessarily make him a"10".. I'm all for your analysis of Rooney but if Jose can see that he would be missing piece to our puzzle to make us serious threat for prem again i'm going to have to go with that..

And watching Rooney of last season in a SS role he still was able to produce in the 26 matches he played in.. we have far better attacking/creative players than United he could only become a beast again working with players like Mata Hazard Oscar and De Bruyne

Simply a freak season, where everything went right for him. In that season, if I remember rightly he wasn't even playing as a (9) anyway. He just scored a lot. That is also the role of a (10) anyways. The extra goals came from the fact that he played with Berbatov a lot who also likes to drop deep. I really don't think Rooney was ever asked to play the furthest up the field.

And yeah, he was far from bad last season. It's his general play that is getting worse. He seems in decline to me; peaked early. Also, having better attacking players around him still won't do anything for individual play. He's lost that edge he used to have. That doesn't make him a bad player, it just makes him more transparent, and easier to defend.

Jose knows more than me though. So who knows. I really don't know how you'd re-motivate somebody who's won everything there is to win in the same league.

[Chelsea? 892]

I'm sure a lot of people don't actually think the situation through fully before posting crticism.

Why on earth would Mourinho want a striker that isn't good enough anymore for the sum of money that United expect for him??

Has Jose lost his marbles? No, he knows what he is doing and I trust this potential transfer because I too can see that Wayne is still a class player with a lot to offer.

maybe Jose thinks he still has it, when I actuality he doesn't. Jose isn't all knowing. He's made mistakes before regarding transfers, some recenrly.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Yes, into my opinion he's on the decline. And I'll try to explain you why.

Regarding the stat you use as example, you could have a point, but not really. It neither does show he has not declined ; nor does show that he has progressed. So you can grasp my point, I will use a few exaples. For instance, Lampard has scored 15 goals (and only one assist) in 21 starts ; which is statistically good for a midfielder. Though, you will agree with me, he is declining (and this for many seasons) and he was fairly average the past season. Another example is David Villa. In 17 starts in La Liga, he has scored 10 goals and made five assists. That's roughly similar to Rooney (for the dabate sake !) though once again, this player is on the decline and had a bad season.

By stating this, I am not trying to prove that he is declining. I am just trying to stress out the fact that these kind of stats and a player's progression (or regression) are not necessarily correlated. Some players, despite being off-form (or in decline), will still score a fair amount of goals because they have it in them ; that's the case of all the aforementioned players. To extrapolate, Pirlo and Xavi are still among the best playmakers, even if they are far from the players they were, because they have the playmaking DNA.

But let's drop statistics for the moment and let's concentrate ourselves upon perception, and perception only. I do agree with Ferguson on the matter we already saw the best of Rooney. And in my honest opinion, ever since grosso modo 2010, Rooney is on the decline. That doesn't mean that he has become a poor player. He has still managed to stay a top player. That's because he has adapted his game ; he has compensated the loss of certain abilities he lost by adding other abilities to his game. Indeed, nowadays he is a lot more versatile than he was before, his passing game is better, he use more his brain, etc...

Rooney has lost pace and speed. A few members have already stated this fact, though some others retorted that it didn't matter because it was never a part of Rooney's game... I'll claim it high and loud : Rooney has started to decline ever since he has started to lose his pace and speed as "slow" as he may be.

Losing your speed doesn't only mean that you'll be less fast...!!!! It also implies a loss of another thing which is more important, in my view, in football than speed the mobility. And if you lose your mobility, you won't have the same, what we call in French, "volume of play". It's such a shame there's no equivalent in english, because it's a very important notion in football, into my eyes. It's hard to explain, but in short, the "volume of play" is : your work-rate + your participation in both defensive and offensive phases (i.e. participating in the defensive duties, participating to the building of attacks, moving to make you available for a pass, moving to out-number the opponent in one area, etc...) + the ground you cover + the runs you make + the number of minutes you can do that.... For instance, Ramires has a big "volume of play".

This is a key notion, because this is what allows players, besides their technical abilities, to set their influence on the game. You can have a Messi in both of your feet, if you stay still, you will do nothing. Speed has never been a part of Terry's game, though now he doesn't have speed anymore -> he lost his mobility and thus he finds himselves pretty often in situations where he's all over the place (Against Liverpool two seasons ago and against Newcastle last season, for instance). Speed has never been a part of Xavi's and Pirlo's game ; they still have their technical abilities, though they can't have the influence on games like they had before because they have a lesser "volume of play". The same goes for Lampard. Speed has never been a part of his game. But now he's less mobil, he doesn't provide half of the influence on the game he had before.

This is exactly why I claim that Rooney is on the decline. He has lost in mobility and velocity. He doesn't have the same "volume of play" any more. He doesn't have the same influence on the game that he had pre-2010. He still scores a lot of goals because his sheer quality is way above the one of your average footballer and he has adapted his game so to lessen the abilities he has lost. I am not implying that he will become as good as Heskey overnight, but he is on the downside part of his development which is irrefutable. He will nonetheless stay a very good players for the years to come, because he has excellent technical abilities and has a great football IQ.

Voilà voilà.

Hey Peace. Thanks for the thought provoking and balanced argument. You made a lot of valid points and I can't say I disagree enough to send you back an argument of equal quality. At least you can still admit that he's still a good player unlike others who don't want Rooney.

You're right in basically saying that Wayne won't get any better - that Wayne peaked early. I don't disagree with that. What I do disagree with though is the notion that he's basically "over-the-hill". What I personally see in Wayne is a very talented player that is frustrated at not being allowed to play in the best circumstances and we at Chelsea potentially have the right environment for him to excel. He's a player that when fit, motivated and under the right roof is easily a top 5 player in the world. I still believe he's in his peak but just had a season that didn't go his way last year.

You bring in the Villa, Pirlo, Xavi and Lampard arguments and they're all very plausible but to me Wayne's situation is different. The players you've mentioned above are all above 31 whilst Wayne is just 27 and clearly has still got plenty of top level football left in him. You are correct in saying that he's somewhat lost his power/pace from his youth days but it doesn't matter if we were to sign him. If we needed a striker that brought pace to the table because there is a lot of space in behind the defence and in between the lines - we'd just play Lukaku, simple.

However, knowing that that won't be the case for the majority of our games, a striker who can play in tight spaces and bring in other players is invaluable and Wayne is one of the best in the world in that aspect hence why it would be a great signing. Wayne is very strong technically, has a great first touch, and doesn't get bullied off the ball easily at all. He's also got a knack of finding himself in the right place at the right time. When Rooney's at his best he's unstoppable. He'll win you games. That's why I believe he'd be a great signing for us because he does offer something different at a high quality level.

I also want to say this - Rooney is still very mobile as a player even if he has lost a little bit if pace and power. He's not like Villa for example who you could definitely say is in decline because of career threatening injuries he's suffered late into his career - the same can't be said about Wayne's who has still got at least 3/4 years left at the top. He's still at a moderate stage in his career.

Like I said before, I still think he's in his peak. Even when he does decline, it would be a steady decline - he'd still prove to be a very valuable player because he doesn't rely on that pace/power unlike Torres.

Again, Rooney would be a fantastic signing because it would truly go a long way to us having a versatile squad which will allow us to be far more unpredictable thus giving Jose more options. If we get him for around the ~£30m it will be an astute transfer for a world class striker.

[Spike 12,049]

Well it needs to be said that it's not a transfer window without a painfully prolonged Chelsea transfer saga. At least this saga is no way near as painful and torturing as the Modric, Hulk, and Robinho sagas.

[bushman 2,043]

Yes, this saga could go on & on. According to the latest Barca is not willing to part with Fabregas & that might even hinder Chelsea´s getting Rooney.

[edenhazard17 281]

EXCLUSIVE: Chelsea certain they will sign Wayne Rooney

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/328541/EXCLUSIVE-Chelsea-certain-they-will-sign-Wayne-Rooney


What's so exclusive in this article?

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

EXCLUSIVE: Chelsea certain they will sign Wayne Rooney

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/328541/EXCLUSIVE-Chelsea-certain-they-will-sign-Wayne-Rooney

What's so exclusive in this article?

Nothing, for future reference the star are the anus of the rag world

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

Chelsea, who has already made ​​a first offer would be pretty confident to complete This transfer

http://www.le10sport.com/football/angleterre/manchester-united/mercato-manchester-united-chelsea-persuade-de-signer-rooney-111678

[Special Juan 27,457]

Everytime I sit and think why this transfer won't happen I come up with another three reason why it will.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

The new Manchester United 2013/14 away kit pic.twitter.com/N3ZQFFYtNl no Rooney in this pic...

[Peppen 934]

The new Manchester United 2013/14 away kit pic.twitter.com/N3ZQFFYtNl no Rooney in this pic...

Ferdinand looks like a total cunt in that picture. Not that it comes as a surprise...

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

The

new Manchester United 2013/14

away

kit

pic.twitter.com/N3ZQFFYtNl

no

Rooney

in

this pic...

No Lamps in Ours