David Cameron on state multiculturalism

[BlueLion. 21,491]

State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

David Cameron has criticised "state multiculturalism" in his first speech as prime minister on radicalisation and the causes of terrorism.

At a security conference in Munich,

he argued the UK needed a stronger national identity to prevent people turning to all kinds of extremism.

He also signalled a tougher stance on groups promoting Islamist extremism.

The speech angered some Muslim groups, while others queried its timing amid an English Defence League rally in the UK.

As Mr Cameron outlined his vision, he suggested there would be greater scrutiny of some Muslim groups which get public money but do little to tackle extremism.

Ministers should refuse to share platforms or engage with such groups, which should be denied access to public funds and barred from spreading their message in universities and prisons, he argued.

"Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," the prime minister said.

Human rights

"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations," he added.

The Labour MP for Luton South, Gavin Shuker, asked if it was wise for Mr Cameron to make the speech on the same day the English Defence League staged a major protest in his constituency.

There was further criticism from Labour's Sadiq Khan whose comments made in a Daily Mirror article sparked a row.

The shadow justice secretary was reported as saying Mr Cameron was "writing propaganda material for the EDL".

Conservative Party chairman Baroness Warsi hit back, saying that "to smear the prime minister as a right wing extremist is outrageous and irresponsible". She called on Labour leader Ed Miliband to disown the remarks.

Meanwhile, the Muslim Council of Britain's assistant secretary general, Dr Faisal Hanjra, described Mr Cameron's speech as "disappointing".

He told Radio 4's Today programme: "We were hoping that with a new government, with a new coalition that there'd be a change in emphasis in terms of counter-terrorism and dealing with the problem at hand. "In terms of the approach to tackling terrorism though it doesn't seem to be particularly new.

"Again it just seems the Muslim community is very much in the spotlight, being treated as part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution."

In the speech, Mr Cameron drew a clear distinction between Islam the religion and what he described as "Islamist extremism" - a political ideology he said attracted people who feel "rootless" within their own countries.

"We need to be clear: Islamist extremism and Islam are not the same thing," he said.

The government is currently reviewing its policy to prevent violent extremism, known as Prevent, which is a key part of its wider counter-terrorism strategy.

A genuinely liberal country "believes in certain values and actively promotes them", Mr Cameron said.

"Freedom of speech. Freedom of worship. Democracy. The rule of law. Equal rights, regardless of race, sex or sexuality.

"It says to its citizens: This is what defines us as a society. To belong here is to believe these things."

He said under the "doctrine of state multiculturalism", different cultures have been encouraged to live separate lives.

'I am a Londoner too' "We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values."

Building a stronger sense of national and local identity holds "the key to achieving true cohesion" by allowing people to say "I am a Muslim, I am a Hindu, I am a Christian, but I am a Londoner... too", he said.

Security minister Baroness Neville-Jones said when Mr Cameron expressed his opposition to extremism, he meant all forms, not just Islamist extremism.

"There's a widespread feeling in the country that we're less united behind values than we need to be," she told Today.

"There are things the government can do to give a lead and encourage participation in society, including all minorities."

But the Islamic Society of Britain's Ajmal Masroor said the prime minister did not appreciate the nature of the problem.

"I think he's confusing a couple of issues: national identity and multiculturalism along with extremism are not connected. Extremism comes about as a result of several other factors," he told BBC Radio 5 live.

Former home secretary David Blunkett said while it was right the government promoted national identity, it had undermined its own policy by threatening to withdraw citizenship lessons from schools.

He accused Education Secretary Michael Gove of threatening to remove the subject from the national curriculum of secondary schools in England at a time "we've never needed it more".

"It's time the right hand knew what the far-right hand is doing," he said.

"In fact, it's time that the government were able to articulate one policy without immediately undermining it with another."

The Prime Minister has gone up in my estimations, make no mistake. I absolutely agree that attempts for Britain to become an overly-liberal, multicultural society have gone to such an extent that it is now becoming the grounds for an ideological war between race and religion. Cameron has shown the thing that neither Blair nor Brown have - bollocks. He's gone out on thin ice and put his neck on the chopping block by potentially angering extremist groups and inspiring radical organisations like the English Defence League. Whilst this may only be fuel to the fire, in my view it is not too late for Britain to follow the path that the USA has followed. It is a stance that will dissuade extremism and I'm pleased he's finally done what his predecessors did not and stand up for British values.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

The problem with trying to create a multiculturalist society that has been going on in the past decade is that it does not address the problem that can create fear of issues like extremism which is the reason why people find groups like EDL attractable.

As someone who believes in One Nation Conservatism I'm all for trying to create national identity and social consensus, the whole idea of letting people stay within the boundries of their own cultures and creating alienation between different groups has clearly not gone well.

[Kostas 1,468]

I take it the EDL is England's far-right party?

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Yes, they English Defence League are basically a very patriotic group - but patriotic to the extent they (on the whole) hate everything about Islam and incite dislike towards the religion.

[We Hate Scouse 10,260]

Yes, they English Defence League are basically a very patriotic group - but patriotic to the extent they (on the whole) hate everything about Islam and incite dislike towards the religion.

Untrue, they have Muslim members. They are against extremism and Sharia law.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Most members of the EDL were former members of the BNP or other far-right groups or football hooligans in their 40s or 50s that are a bit bored with their lives now.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Untrue, they have Muslim members. They are against extremism and Sharia law.

True, they have Muslim members. But I thought exactly the same until I went on their forums.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3994426/1/

[We Hate Scouse 10,260]

True, they have Muslim members. But I thought exactly the same until I went on their forums.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3994426/1/

Yeah there's a lot of absolute twats. I used to be quite into the EDL about a year ago, but more and more idiots were turning up so I don't go any more.

[BRMC 12]

EDL just have a few cunty members who follow them shouting things like "allah is a pedo". But im quite behind them and glad they are at least making a stand...

HOWEVER.. wasnt the edl leader on newsnight very recently saying multiculturism hasnt failed??

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

Camerons timing not coincidental -just as that big EDL march in Luton happening.

Tory leaders always make some inflamatory statement about black people at some point -be it Thatcher saying we're being 'swamped, or Tebbits 'cricket test'. ''The need to be 'tolerant'' -which by mere implication suggets that 'intolerance ' exists.

If theyre not stirring it up they're bombing the fuck out of them. Funny how the govt always kill in vast numbers the black or brown people.....

Nah , Cunts of the highest order -boil it down and the ruling class of multimillionaires who went to Eton get the Working class to fight amongst themselves -be it over the colour of your skin, your sexuality, or which football team you support.

Oldest trick in the book

It makes the scum easier to rule if they're squabbling.

[Madmax 9,219]

Interested to know - Is Islamophobia real over there? I know there's a fair few nutters in every corner of the world, but is it catching on?

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

Interested to know - Is Islamophobia real over there? I know there's a fair few nutters in every corner of the world, but is it catching on?

Not on the scale of India - but theres nutters on both sides having a pop. That said, my own view Islam is a load of bonkers medieval dangerous outdated claptrap. And like some mad cult you cant leave.

But my muslim mates accept my views and I dont criticise them -because for all their mysogyny, confusion over Zionism and Jewry, they have a lot of humanity

[Madmax 9,219]

Not on the scale of India

Unnecessary. Unless you're having a pop

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

Unnecessary. Unless you're having a pop

No young man. Just vivid images of massacres, burning bodies on trains and tit for tat mass killings between Sikhs? and Muslims.

Its not that bad out there at the moment though ?

[Madmax 9,219]

No young man. Just vivid images of massacres, burning bodies on trains and tit for tat mass killings between Sikhs? and Muslims.

Its not that bad out there at the moment though ?

Every pre independence instance you can throw at me I can throw it right back at you considering they were propagated by British rulers of the time (but naively bought by the locals ofcourse).

And yeah not too bad you know. We're safer than what your media would like you to believe.

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

Every pre independence instance you can throw at me I can throw it right back at you considering they were propagated by British rulers of the time (but naively bought by the locals ofcourse).

And yeah not too bad you know. We're safer than what your media would like you to believe.

Not pre independence -talking 2002? massacres between Hindus and Muslims in Gudjarat I think it was. Hundreds massacred with severe intolerance on both sides.

India with its caste system was ideally suited to Victorian upper classes with their theories of Social Darwinism already built in, made it easy to rule.

[Madmax 9,219]

Not pre independence -talking 2002? massacres between Hindus and Muslims in Gudjarat I think it was. Hundreds massacred with severe intolerance on both sides.

Yes that was shameful, no denying it. Started by Muslims when they burnt down a coachful of Hindu devotees who were travelling peacefully. Doesn't justify the retaliation, though I can understand why people would retaliate to something like that.

Clutching at straws after that though barring the terrorist activities carried out at behest of Pakistan's ISI who collude with young local brainwashed Muslim youth. Should be noted that no major riots have broken out afterwards, not even after the Mumbai siege which I'm sure BBC would have covered for the 3 days of it's duration.

The Kashmir standoff remains and it probably will as long as the eunuchs that sit in the government keep washing their hands off the issue to appease Muslim voters.

India with its caste system was ideally suited to Victorian upper classes with their theories of Social Darwinism already built in, made it easy to rule.

Yes it was. And trust the Victorians to enslave indigenous people the world over using their Divide and Rule policy. You can't build a global empire otherwise

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

my kids just come back from 3 weeks in Kolkata -said the people a lot more friendly than in UK -but in the house they stayed in there was an 11 year old girl servant

Bombay Blue -Aroop was working next to that hotel when it all kicked off I think