4-3-3 musings

[eldo 868]

OllieCFC and The Big Drog :goodpost:

[Clevemayer 764]

kostas , i thought you know better !!!!!

essien >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikel @Dm and @CM , being not in top form and making an error doesn't make you worse . it's the same case of comparing kalou with Drogba , Drogba was shit yesterday while kalou was lively does that mean kalou is better ??!!!

how pathetic, what fuckin bullshit...

Essien is nowhere near a Mikel in the DM right now, or lets face it since one and a half year, Mikels Position ist called DEFENSIVE Midfielder, not, Defensiv-runningforward-giveassistseverymatch-playkillerpassesevereyandeachsingletimeyougetontheball-dontintercept-dontattack-defend-cover-attack-intercept-Position, FFS you're all kdding me right now arent you? this cant be true...

@Kostas

you're so fuckin right and its so obvious that it HAS to hurt anyone who REALLY dont agrees with you at this moment....

greetings

[Ollie 4,400]

You could even play bosingwa as a winger when our back 4 is Cole, JT, Alex and Ivanovic as a right footed option. I think the way he plays could work. We have Ipswich at home in the FA Cup next weekend (i think). Surely the type of game to try something different. Maybe that option is unavailable for then but just anything different is worth a try.

[Rambo 1,729]

some really good suggestions in here, bottom line is Carlo needs to start experimenting more with different formations/players.

[Kostas 1,468]

In hindsight, that CL game against Marseille was probably our best chance to either play the kids or experiment with our starting XI. We ended up starting Ferreira on the left-side and witnessed Drogba being lovestruck with Marseille.

[Ollie 4,400]

Yeah that game was the biggest waste of 90 minutes ever, Drogba lovesickness just got on my nerves that day too. It was a 100% meaningless game and still Carlo did nothing experimental. I can understand not doing it in a carling cup or fa cup game a bit because u can still get knocked out, but in a meaningless game, come on...

[spuz 143]

Yeah that game was the biggest waste of 90 minutes ever, Drogba lovesickness just got on my nerves that day too. It was a 100% meaningless game and still Carlo did nothing experimental. I can understand not doing it in a carling cup or fa cup game a bit because u can still get knocked out, but in a meaningless game, come on...

Agreed. I'd put shit teams out in the mickey mouse cup too. Completely pointless competition.

That could have been a game where the likes of Josh etc got 90 mins big game experience under their belts.

[Ollie 4,400]

VS Newcastle (H) Carling Cup

Chelsea

• 22 Turnbull
• 19 Ferreira
• 26 Terry (Alex 46)
• 38 Van Aanholt
• 43 Brumayellow card
• 07 Ramires
• 10 Benayoun
• 18 Zhirkov
• 23 Sturridge
• 39 Anelka
• 44 Kakuta (Kalou 46) (McEachran56)

Substitutes

• 01 Cech,
• 33 Alex,
• 62 Chalobah,
• 46 McEachran,
• 47 Clifford,
• 50 Mellis,
• 21 Kalou

That was a step in the right direction anyway, in the CC vs Newcastle. Altho we lost, great experience for some of those players.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

That was a step in the right direction anyway, in the CC vs Newcastle. Altho we lost, great experience for some of those players.

The big question is though, what will he do vs Ipswich next week?

Personally I want a mix, because I still want the win over that scumbag Keane..

Turnbull

Bosingwa - Bruma - Terry - Van Aanholt

Mikel

McEachran - Lampard

Kakuta - Drogba - Zhirkov/Malouda

Starting 4 of those guys will be fresh to see, but they'll also be supported by the experienced guys. I'd like to see Sturridge & Clifford to come on off the bench for either one youth player & one experienced player or both youngsters. Hasslebaink got it spot on when we played Zilina.. You can't field a full team of youth players, that's not how they'll learn.

[DYC. 7,542]

The big question is though, what will he do vs Ipswich next week?

Personally I want a mix, because I still want the win over that scumbag Keane..

Turnbull

Bosingwa - Bruma - Terry - Van Aanholt

Mikel

McEachran - Lampard

Kakuta - Drogba - Zhirkov/Malouda

Starting 4 of those guys will be fresh to see, but they'll also be supported by the experienced guys. I'd like to see Sturridge & Clifford to come on off the bench for either one youth player & one experienced player or both youngsters. Hasslebaink got it spot on when we played Zilina.. You can't field a full team of youth players, that's not how they'll learn.

I like it. Although i would start either Kakuta or McEachran in midfield and Sturridge up front. Sturridge really needs games, he is not in a good mood at all and lacks confidence (a attacker is nothing without confidence). And from what i've seen so far, Kakuta is a (pure) midfielder. Every time he played up front, he dropped deep (trying) to get involved in build-up play. Staying up front or poaching goes against his nature.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I like it. Although i would start either Kakuta or McEachran in midfield and Sturridge up front. Sturridge really needs games, he is not in a good mood at all and lacks confidence (a attacker is nothing without confidence). And from what i've seen so far, Kakuta is (pure) midfielder. Every time he played up front, he dropped deep (trying) to get involved in build-up play. Staying up front or poaching goes against his nature.

Hmm, if we're saying start Sturridge then perhaps move Josh to holding (as Carlo does) and put Lampard with Ramires. Bringing on Kakuta later for Ramires. I'd say no more than 4 youngsters to start, otherwise it may become too young.

[Owizzy 19]

The recent games have got me thinking about our rigid 4-3-3, especially it's midfield.

Teams have figured out how to play against us. Press Chelsea when they are in possession, deny them time to pick out a pass, stifle space around the midfield and thus cut out supply to the forwards. They've done this primarily by planting 5 across the middle. City did this perfectly in the 1-0 loss and others seem to have taken the idea form them. At the beginning of the season teams were afraid to play us, almost overawed by our fluid passing game and great movement. But once they decided to take the game to us, we've been found short of an answer.

Admittedly injuries and suspensions coupled with the thin squad has limited our options. Zhirkov and Malouda have been played in the LCM spot which is usually occupied by Lampard. Mikel, Ramires, Essien and Josh have all been tried out in the DM role, yet we haven't been able to find the correct combination of pace and drive and a balance between attack and defence.

I've always been a fan of Mikel and it's been great to see his fantastic performances this season but I think we can do much better without him in that DM role. While his strength on the ball and calmness when under pressure from opposition players is unquestionable, I think he's not been able to move things about quickly in the middle of the field. IMO his decision making while passing is just a tad slow still and we'd be better served playing Essien there. He is the complete midfielder and certainly among the top 3 box to box mids in the world and we're wasting his vision and passing by playing him as a CM. Ramires showed in the Spurs game that right now his best position is at RCM. His pace is terrific and he gives us great energy there, a perfect compliment for Lamps alongside him who will do what he does best now that he's returned.

IMO our 3 in midfield should be set up like this :

------------------------Essien----------------------------

--------Ramires-----------------Lampard-------------

The second half against Spurs really demonstrated that we have a lot to gain by playing Essien and Ramires as mentioned above, with Lampard providing the creative impetus and late runs into the box.

Thoughts?

[Owizzy 19]

Originally Mikel was a very effective attacking mid-fielder, but with team that has Lamps then that position is taken Mikel is skillfull, has good vision when playing the attcking MF, Chelsea board converted him into a Makelele and since then he has focussed more on being a stopper this has greatly affected his passing instincts even though I still give him kudos in this regard, but I know Mikel is not being fully utilized to his max potential in the defensive MF role. With the same squad we have a reshuffling of position might just do the trick. I am quite practical in my tactical visions for the team. The other major issue now is that our attack group (Drogs, Nikko and Malouda) shoul restore the fluidity they had earlier on in the season. My recommendation for now let our defenders remain as defenders and lets use a historical formation 4-5-2 sounds strange (it needs more explanation though), but it fortifies the engine-room ie the Mid-field. If the mid-field gives the opponents a hard time then our defence will have all room for full concentration. The leftmost and the rightmost of the -5- formation would be the guys doing the overlapping wing plays and we have the guys that can do this well. I am just for a tight defence form now till the end of the season

[Owizzy 19]

Originally Mikel was a very effective attacking mid-fielder, but with team that has Lamps then that position is taken Mikel is skillfull, has good vision when playing the attcking MF, Chelsea board converted him into a Makelele and since then he has focussed more on being a stopper this has greatly affected his passing instincts even though I still give him kudos in this regard, but I know Mikel is not being fully utilized to his max potential in the defensive MF role. With the same squad we have a reshuffling of position might just do the trick. I am quite practical in my tactical visions for the team. The other major issue now is that our attack group (Drogs, Nikko and Malouda) shoul restore the fluidity they had earlier on in the season. My recommendation for now let our defenders remain as defenders and lets use a historical formation 4-5-2 sounds strange (it needs more explanation though), but it fortifies the engine-room ie the Mid-field. If the mid-field gives the opponents a hard time then our defence will have all room for full concentration. The leftmost and the rightmost of the -5- formation would be the guys doing the overlapping wing plays and we have the guys that can do this well. I am just for a tight defence form now till the end of the season

[St Abramovich 175]

Originally Mikel was a very effective attacking mid-fielder, but with team that has Lamps then that position is taken Mikel is skillfull, has good vision when playing the attcking MF, Chelsea board converted him into a Makelele and since then he has focussed more on being a stopper this has greatly affected his passing instincts even though I still give him kudos in this regard, but I know Mikel is not being fully utilized to his max potential in the defensive MF role. With the same squad we have a reshuffling of position might just do the trick. I am quite practical in my tactical visions for the team. The other major issue now is that our attack group (Drogs, Nikko and Malouda) shoul restore the fluidity they had earlier on in the season. My recommendation for now let our defenders remain as defenders and lets use a historical formation 4-5-2 sounds strange (it needs more explanation though), but it fortifies the engine-room ie the Mid-field. If the mid-field gives the opponents a hard time then our defence will have all room for full concentration. The leftmost and the rightmost of the -5- formation would be the guys doing the overlapping wing plays and we have the guys that can do this well. I am just for a tight defence form now till the end of the season

4-5-2 would mean no goalkeeper or playing with twelve men, which to my knowledge is not allowed.

But I do agree with getting more wingers or if not packing the midfield and trying to control games from there instead of this current passing around at the back crap.

[Sparkie 27]

Don't mean to hotlink, but I wrote an article on the failings of 4-3-3 which I thought some members here might appreciate. http://bit.ly/esVkt3

[Kostas 1,468]

Don't mean to hotlink, but I wrote an article on the failings of 4-3-3 which I thought some members here might appreciate. http://bit.ly/esVkt3

Great analysis

Some of those points are well known while a few haven't been mentioned much on this board. I'd like to quote #5 and #6

5. Too much pressure on the base of the midfield triangle

Playing as a defensive midfielder is hard work, but Makelele made it look easy with his calm, composed manner and simple passes. Mikel has been groomed to replace this role, and until he was injured by Robin Van Persie against Arsenal, he did it with aplomb.

When Essien took over the mantle at the base, many fans were crowing for the fact that Chelsea may be more attacking with the ‘Bull’ as the holder, rather than Mikel, who, for all his efforts, can appear to slow play down and dictate tempo slowly, rather than a high impetus transition that fans crave.

Against Wolves especially a problem became clear. The back four receives the ball and looks for the holder who initiates the attack. However, while Mikel can starve off the opposition pressure and move into more available space, Essien does not have this technical ability.

I could not get to the footage to show you this point, but on multiple occasions against Wolves, and too against Villa too, Essien was under heavy pressure when he received the ball from Terry. More often than not, he lost the ball.

6. Predictable, same old moves

Too often we see Ashley Cole pass to Malouda, then Malouda holds it for a bit while Cole runs past, and then Malouda passes it deep to the byline, and Ashley crosses it in.

It worked in 2009/10 and at the start of this season, but now Ashley Cole is man marked, it doesn’t anymore.

Number 8 and 9 pretty much sums up our on-field problems but it got me thinking.

While I believe we should have at least tried a version of 4-4-2 during our "bad moment" I don't know if Ancelotti can adopt it for the long term, our team has been playing variations of the 4-4-3 for years and the last two times we tried something different (Scolari, Ancelotti in 09) the results weren't good. Besides as far as I know all our academy teams are built around 4-3-3 sometimes at the expense of playing players out of position (Kakuta).

[Sparkie 27]

Thanks for the feedback.

I didn't know *officially* whether Chelsea were looking to bring 4-3-3 through the club in an Arsenal sort of style (how all are coached in the importance of first touch, etc).

Ancelotti did alright with the diamond, it was just Ferguson meddling with Valencia that stuffed it.